Books fundies should probably ban but don't

[godlytomatosoup]

In response to the 'If you could make a fundie read a book what would it be?', I started thinking about books that regularly appear on fundie reading lists but which have the potential to change their worldviews, if read right.

My picks:

1. The Bible, of course. I cannot believe they let little kids read this. Tsk, tsk. Quite apart from all the sex and violence, if you read it carefully you might come away with a very different perspective of what it actually says than the one most of them seem to be pushing.

2. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy. Yes, he was a Christian, and yes, there are Christian allegorical elements in it, but it also is the single book most likely to launch a child into science fiction and fantasy fandom, and turn them away from their narrow fundamentalist worldview for life.

3. Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice. They all seem to read Austen, but they come away with this impression of what fun it is to wear Empress-line dresses and drink tea. As opposed to what fun it is to have a sense of humour and be sensible even when the people around you are being complete idiots, and how sometimes your closely held beliefs are wrong, and it's okay to change your mind.

What about you?

[CanadianHippie]

Elsie Dinsmore. Not a 'heroine' I want my daughters aspiring to be.

[JesusFightClub]

Elsie Dinsmore. Not a 'heroine' I want my daughters aspiring to be.

Oh! QFT.

Those books are fucking creepy as shit. Psychological Abuse Dad, Mr Paedo Man who starts fancying Elsie when she's about six, the weird dominance/submission thing and the pure pure annoyance that is Elsie herself.

[JesusFightClub]

Also, the Bible. Having had the "benefit" of religious schooling (hey! rural Scotland, represent!) I can and do shock my atheist English comrades with my detail of the pervy/violent parts of the Bible. My mate said in wonder after I told her about the emissions and genitals bit "And people call it the GOOD Book?" ;)

[jenny_islander]

I think the author of the Elsie Dinsmore series started writing them to convince herself that her daddy really, really did love her and the way he treated her was really, really okay. If she had just kept the books under her mattress instead of publishing them, the world would be better off.

A lot of people have the idea that the Bible is a warm and fuzzy happy magic story in which nobody ever has troubles. My personal fave shocker is the bit about the fat king who was assassinated by being stabbed, and the assassin hated him so much that the murder weapon went all the way into his body and disappeared into his body fat, so that nobody realized how he had died at first. Then there's the psalm in which the exiled Jews cry out in rage against the invaders and wish that somebody would dash their babies' brains out against a handy boulder for a change. But I'm a wishy-washy mainstream Christian who actually sat down and read nearly the entire Bible and then went and argued about it with other Christians, instead of waiting for a preacher to tell me what I should think it means.

Back on topic: Fundamentalists have banned the Bible, or as close to it as makes no difference. They read only selected snippets, and only in a particular sequence, and generally only in a translation that is so old that the words no longer have the same meaning--and they construct elaborate arguments about how the things Jesus told them to go and do aren't really the things Jesus cares about, and the things the Gospel writers say Jesus did He didn't actually do, and so on. "Biblical" in fundamentalese means "the shibboleths of our tribe."

[alba]

I

2. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy. Yes, he was a Christian, and yes, there are Christian allegorical elements in it, but it also is the single book most likely to launch a child into science fiction and fantasy fandom, and turn them away from their narrow fundamentalist worldview for life.

Hang on, they let their kids read LOTR but Harry Potter is evil? Lemme see, both Christian authors, with Christian themes in their books, who write about fantasy and magic. I'm not seeing why one's OK and one's not.

Mind you, I grew up a Christian immersed in fantasy, so I think they're both great (and was one of those kids hoping desperately for a letter from Hogwarts).

[FJismyheadship]

Hang on, they let their kids read LOTR but Harry Potter is evil? Lemme see, both Christian authors, with Christian themes in their books, who write about fantasy and magic. I'm not seeing why one's OK and one's not.

Mind you, I grew up a Christian immersed in fantasy, so I think they're both great (and was one of those kids hoping desperately for a letter from Hogwarts).

I still say mine has been chasing me all over the US since I was 11.... hey... maybe THATS why we moved so often!!!!! :lol:

[alba]

I still say mine has been chasing me all over the US since I was 11.... hey... maybe THATS why we moved so often!!!!! :lol:

Haha! Unfortunately, I'm definitely a Muggle, or else a house elf's trying to keep me away from Hogwarts, because I can't get through the barrier between platforms nine and ten.

[FJismyheadship]

I never got to try that! Someday I shall... I will only accept it when I can't get through that.

by the way... how many people do you reckon actually try to pass through it?

[VodouDoll]

I was shocked speechless when I saw that Bria Crawford had For Whom the Bell Tolls on her reading list. I can't imagine Kelly has read it, or she never would've allowed Bria to.

Hang on, they let their kids read LOTR but Harry Potter is evil? Lemme see, both Christian authors, with Christian themes in their books, who write about fantasy and magic. I'm not seeing why one's OK and one's not.

Oh! I know this one! It's because Harry Potter disobeys authority figures and breaks rules. He's an ungodly role model.

[Avalondaughter]

Hang on, they let their kids read LOTR but Harry Potter is evil? Lemme see, both Christian authors, with Christian themes in their books, who write about fantasy and magic. I'm not seeing why one's OK and one's not.

Mind you, I grew up a Christian immersed in fantasy, so I think they're both great (and was one of those kids hoping desperately for a letter from Hogwarts).

Goodness knows I'm not a Potter fan, but at least Potter attempts to have strong female characters front and center. LOTR is lots and lots of manly men. That's probably what the fundies approve.

[godlytomatosoup]

Hang on, they let their kids read LOTR but Harry Potter is evil? Lemme see, both Christian authors, with Christian themes in their books, who write about fantasy and magic. I'm not seeing why one's OK and one's not.

Maybe because LOTR is old? That's all I've got.

[applesandbacon]

The Laura Ingalls series. Laura was very independent and refused to use the word "obey" in her wedding vows. Almonzo's sister was a suffragette.

Anne of Green Gables. There's so much man-hating in this series. I'm kind of shocked every time a fundy blogger compares herself to an "Anne" character.

Little Women. Louisa May Alcott's family was part of a group with some extremely non-traditional views. In spite of the smarmy title, I believe "Little Women" could be considered feminist literature.

And anything by Jane Austen, as others have said.

And yet these books are acceptable, probably because they were written over 100 years ago and the characters wear dresses and cook and sew.

[lilwriter85]

The Laura Ingalls series. Laura was very independent and refused to use the word "obey" in her wedding vows. Almonzo's sister was a suffragette.

Anne of Green Gables. There's so much man-hating in this series. I'm kind of shocked every time a fundy blogger compares herself to an "Anne" character.

Little Women. Louisa May Alcott's family was part of a group with some extremely non-traditional views. In spite of the smarmy title, I believe "Little Women" could be considered feminist literature.

And anything by Jane Austen, as others have said.

And yet these books are acceptable, probably because they were written over 100 years ago and the characters wear dresses and cook and sew.

The Laura Ingalls series is a good example. I have always wondered why some fundies love that series when Laura is not like them.

[Hane]

Some x-treme fundies ban Alcott and Wilder because of their feminism.

[alba]

Oh! I know this one! It's because Harry Potter disobeys authority figures and breaks rules. He's an ungodly role model.

So does Pippin! I suppose it's to a lesser extent, but then again Harry tends to break rules for a good reason; for instance in the second book Dumbledore says that he'd previously told Harry and Ron he'd have to expel them if they broke any more rules, but in light of the fact that their rule-breaking had saved Ron's sister's life and destroyed a monster living in the bowels of a castle, he felt it was better to award them special awards for services to the school.

I don't know why I'm trying so hard to understand fundie logic :p

Maybe because LOTR is old? That's all I've got.

It's a classic! It can't be bad! /sarcasm

Goodness knows I'm not a Potter fan, but at least Potter attempts to have strong female characters front and center. LOTR is lots and lots of manly men. That's probably what the fundies approve.

Good point. Hermione FTW!

[snarkbillie]

Also, the Bible. Having had the "benefit" of religious schooling (hey! rural Scotland, represent!) I can and do shock my atheist English comrades with my detail of the pervy/violent parts of the Bible. My mate said in wonder after I told her about the emissions and genitals bit "And people call it the GOOD Book?" ;)

hehehehe.

[Boltingmadonna]

If fundies only knew, Louisa May Alcott's "An Old-Fashioned Girl" has a lot MOAR FEMINISM than "Little Women." Sure, it has the usual soppy subplots about lurv and wearing proper clothes and not being a flirt, etc. But then there's Chapter 13, which is awesome. The heroine, Polly, is living in a (gasp) boarding-house because she wants to prove she can make it on her own! In Chapter 13 she introduces her frivolous friend, Fanny, to the other independent-minded women who live there. It's too long to quote all the subversive liberation comments, but I remember reading it when I was a kid and being amazed. Here's just one sample:

"Rebecca Jeffrey is a regularly splendid girl, full of talent; she won't let us call it genius; she will be famous some day, I know, she is so modest, and yet so intent on her work. Lizzie Small is an engraver, and designs the most delightful little pictures. Becky and she live together, and take care of one another in true Damon and Pythias style. This studio is their home, they work, eat, sleep, and live here, going halves in everything. They are all alone in the world, but as happy and independent as birds; real friends, whom nothing will part."

"Let a lover come between them, and their friendship won't last long," said Fanny.

"I think it will. Take a look at them, and you'll change your mind," answered Polly.

Oh my pearls! (clutching them) Fetch the smelling salts--I sense lesbians in the house!

Or how about this:

"You are just what I want, Polly. Pull up your sleeve, and give me an arm while you sit; the muscles here are n't right, and you've got just what I want," said Becky, slapping the round arm of the statue, at which Fan was gazing with awe.

Defrauding! Defrauding! ;)

[Guest Anonymous]

If fundies only knew, Louisa May Alcott's "An Old-Fashioned Girl" has a lot MOAR FEMINISM than "Little Women." Sure, it has the usual soppy subplots about lurv and wearing proper clothes and not being a flirt, etc. But then there's Chapter 13, which is awesome. The heroine, Polly, is living in a (gasp) boarding-house because she wants to prove she can make it on her own! In Chapter 13 she introduces her frivolous friend, Fanny, to the other independent-minded women who live there. It's too long to quote all the subversive liberation comments, but I remember reading it when I was a kid and being amazed. Here's just one sample:

Oh my pearls! (clutching them) Fetch the smelling salts--I sense lesbians in the house!

Or how about this:

Defrauding! Defrauding! ;)

Elsewhere in this same book, a man that Polly's friend Fanny was in love with, suddenly developed an interest in Polly herself. Polly liked but didn't love this man, even though he was wealthy and would have treated her like a queen. (If I remember, Polly was actually in love with Fanny's brother Tom). Anyway, Polly deflected his interest. I got the impression from Alcott that even if Polly had harbored some romantic sentiments towards this character, she still would have turned him down, rather than throw Fanny under the bus.

[ladypuglover]

I never got to try that! Someday I shall... I will only accept it when I can't get through that.

by the way... how many people do you reckon actually try to pass through it?

Judging from this video and the tons beside it, I would have to say quite a few.

http://youtu.be/XaTfFa5vBZw

[QAF_Rocks]

The Laura Ingalls series is a good example. I have always wondered why some fundies love that series when Laura is not like them.

I was rather amused when I read The Wilder Life earlier this year, which contains this snippet from Laura's autobiography about her reaction to some religious fanatics:

In Little Town on the Prairie, Laura has to listen to the constant quarreling of the merchant, his wife, and his mother-in-law. But according to Pioneer Girl, what she had to endure instead, in real life, were the two women's rantings about "the Catholics," who they feared would take over the government and do terrible things to Protestant women and children:

While we sewed, the daughter would work herself up . . . wringing her hands and declaring that they should never take her Bible from her, never, never! no matter what she suffered. Then a comet appeared in the sky and both women believed this meant the end of the the world, so they were more frightened than ever. I sat sewing and did not say anything. I did not believe what they said about the Catholics or the comet, but it made me feel sick to hear them talk.

[CanadianHippie]

I was rather amused when I read The Wilder Life earlier this year, which contains this snippet from Laura's autobiography about her reaction to some religious fanatics:

In Little Town on the Prairie, Laura has to listen to the constant quarreling of the merchant, his wife, and his mother-in-law. But according to Pioneer Girl, what she had to endure instead, in real life, were the two women's rantings about "the Catholics," who they feared would take over the government and do terrible things to Protestant women and children:

While we sewed, the daughter would work herself up . . . wringing her hands and declaring that they should never take her Bible from her, never, never! no matter what she suffered. Then a comet appeared in the sky and both women believed this meant the end of the the world, so they were more frightened than ever. I sat sewing and did not say anything. I did not believe what they said about the Catholics or the comet, but it made me feel sick to hear them talk.

The birth of Free Jinger...

[ering]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that some fundies do ban Lord of the Rings (for similar reasons to Harry Potter). It could be because Tolkien was a devout Catholic. Also Tolkien never intended for his books to be religious. In fact he hated it when people would compare his writings to religion or to any other historical event (people compared Lord of the Rings to WW2) and it was never his intent to do that. Plus I don't think fundies would like the character of Eowyn that much.

The fantasy book series the Fundies do love is The Chronicles Narnia by C.S Lewis.

[Boltingmadonna]

The fantasy book series the Fundies do love is The Chronicles Narnia by C.S Lewis.

Actually, they don't all love Narnia. Back when I was a Catholic fundie, I wrote a glowing review of the Narnia books for a Christian publication, and they got angry letters about how those stories were Satanic because they had witchcraft and magic in them! And heathen gods! The editors showed me one letter where an angry woman was demanding an apology from me for writing such a bad article. Even back then, I had too much spine to give her one. I told the editor she was clearly nuts and that was not my problem. Though I probably put it more nicely than that because I tried a lot harder to be nice back then.

[Kitty]

I've heard of fundies banning Twilight simply because of the fact that there are vampires and werewolves. Remove the fantasy elements, and you got yourself perfect fundie propaganda.

I never understood the love fundies have for the Little House books, either. I think they're into the prairie dresses and the Ingalls family doing everything themselves, without the help of modern technology. Same with anything written by Jane Austen.

I'm also surprised that fundies are okay with LOTR.