Not so benign Bates

[ncb]

So, there seems to be a prevailing feeling on this board that the Bates family is somehow more benign that other fundy families we know. I myself thought this and have even been impressed at how humbly Kelly responds to critical comments on their blog. She is often very self-effacing and does not try to change people's minds about her family's lifestyle, parenting choices etc.

 

I thought the most recent thread of comments (on the Romania post) back and forth about different beliefs and parenting outlooks would be a good opportunity for me to share my thoughts and appreciation of the way Kelly handles criticism so, I submitted a comment. I no longer have the text of the original comment (it was deleted or never posted and I didn't save a copy) but it went something like this:

 

I told her that I admired the way she handled criticism and agreed that it can be hard when people criticize your family. I said I understand this because I am a mom of twins who also have another mom (my partner). I said that sometimes I wish we could all see how much we have in common in valuing our children and families and that I would never want to restrict her ability to have the type of family she wants because I know what it is like to have people tell you that your family is not valid.

 

It was a pretty benign and genuine post. I didn't get political, I didn't try to change minds but, of course, it never got posted and I am sure that they would never approve a post from an openly gay person who actually mentioned being gay, no matter how mundane.

 

It made me realize that aside from the kind words and the charming exterior, these people are bigots at heart. They do think most of us are doomed to hell and one of the main reasons they home-school is to keep their kids away from families and children like mine. They also take it upon themselves to try to legislate families like mine out of existence (they will always fail at that). I just needed a reminder that these people are in the business of doing PR for a movement that warps the bible to their own political purposes and that their children are often the biggest victims of this sort of cultish ideology. People may think the Bates are somehow less fame hungry than the Duggars, and that may be true but, they are just as entrenched in an ideology that views anyone unlike them as dangerous influence and doomed to an eternity in hell.

[keen23]

There is quite a bit of Bates criticism on this board.

Please read these threads: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5585&hilit=Bates

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5288&hilit=Gil+Bates

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4087&hilit=Gil+Bates

There are others as well.

[Guest Anonymous]

So, there seems to be a prevailing feeling on this board that the Bates family is somehow more benign that other fundy families we know.

I really disagree with this. The Bates get taken to the metaphorical woodshed here with regularity. I don't think they're fooling very many FJers.

[Daenerys]

I really disagree with this. The Bates get taken to the metaphorical woodshed here with regularity. I don't think they're fooling very many FJers.

I think some people feel they are less awful, though, because Kelly actually appears to like her children and not be a sociopath. I still don't like them or approve of their life choices but on that front she definitely wins over the Duggars.

[Austin]

I don't think any of these people are benign and do not have pet fundies. I don't care how nice they look, how cute their babies are, how wonderful their weddings seem, or anything about them. I try never to forget what they want society to be like, and that would not be good for anyone but them.

[marmalade]

I'm with Lissar. I'm one of their biggest critics.

FWIW, it looks like Priscilla's engagement has paid the Bates family dividends. Gil and Kelly are now on the front page of the IBLP site (I was searching for indoctrination camp dates from 2011 to see if Josiah could have attended one this past fall, but that's for that thread). I clicked on the Journey page quickly, saw long curly brown hair and at first thought it was Mullet, went back and saw it was Kelly and Gil. I guess that family they got Priscilla into really IS Gothard royalty.

They're so far into this cult they're not going to see life any way than their way or the highway, although she's not going to tell you that. Her response about still loving her kids even if they leave ATI was total double speak; I'm sure the Kellers still love their four non-ATI children, they just don't speak to three of them. But most of their sycophants won't recognize this distinction and think she pwned the poster who asked what she would do as a parent in the Keller's situation (that was me).

[tkr322]

I'm with Lissar. I'm one of their biggest critics.

FWIW, it looks like Priscilla's engagement has paid the Bates family dividends. Gil and Kelly are now on the front page of the IBLP site (I was searching for indoctrination camp dates from 2011 to see if Josiah could have attended one this past fall, but that's for that thread). I clicked on the Journey page quickly, saw long curly brown hair and at first thought it was Mullet, went back and saw it was Kelly and Gil. I guess that family they got Priscilla into really IS Gothard royalty.

They're so far into this cult they're not going to see life any way than their way or the highway, although she's not going to tell you that. Her response about still loving her kids even if they leave ATI was total double speak; I'm sure the Kellers still love their four non-ATI children, they just don't speak to three of them. But most of their sycophants won't recognize this distinction and think she pwned the poster who asked what she would do as a parent in the Keller's situation (that was me).

I think you're confused. Priscilla is a Keller not a Bates. The only engaged/courting whatever you want to call it, Bates kid is Zach.

[Witsec7]

The Bates are not benign. The are just as dangerous as any other fundy. Their message can be sanitized or moderated to get people to think they are harmless, but in reality they are no different than the Jeubs, Rusdooney, Sproul et al.

[browngrl]

The Bates are just the typical fundie family. Behind the smiles and the curls lie the usual fundie trinity of misogyny, control and sanctimoniousness. I do not think they fool anyone on this board.

[Jessica]

For me the jig was up when they had portraits of Nathan Bedford Forrest on the wall in their "Patriotic Room".

[marmalade]

I think you're confused. Priscilla is a Keller not a Bates. The only engaged/courting whatever you want to call it, Bates kid is Zach.

Oops! My my bad. This is why I need coffee in the mornings. :oops: Fact remains that the Bateses are now officially Gothard royalty and are not going to stray from the cult party line. If they "disown" any of their kids, it will probably be made public by the children, as was the case with the Kellers. And speaking of the correct family this time. :D how would Princess Erin react to the Keller SIL with the PINK hair? That was awesome.

[tkr322]

For me the jig was up when they had portraits of Nathan Bedford Forrest on the wall in their "Patriotic Room".

Wow. :shock:

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I do critcize the Bates some (see other places on this board) but I think Kelly does do some actual mothering as opposed to that other mother........

I also like that the Bates do not automatically delete negative comments on their blog (which they certainly may choose to do).

And, I like that they let Erin take real college class(es).

Nathan Bedforrd Forrest---it's Tennessee, not Chappaqua New York.......

[Jessica]

It's also 2011, not 1916.

[Elster]

I agree, IReallyAmHopewell, I think Kelly genuinely enjoys her kids and actually mothers them. Often she's seen with a baby on her shoulder when Michelle is never holding one.

Additionally, the house seems far less structured - no chore packs or jurisdictions. We saw them asking their kids to volunteer for jobs. They do have "partners" but even that seems a lighter term to me than how the Duggars handle it.

The Bates kids really seem to have a light in their eyes (except maybe Michaela) that the Duggar kids don't.

That said, I don't think their beliefs are much different than the Duggars', except for the home church/ regular church difference.

[emmiedahl]

I think we ALL know who Nathan Bedford Forrest is and that they are showing their true colors with that one.

Here is the third sentence on his Wikipedia entry, which was the first link when I googled his name: He served as the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, a secret vigilante organization which launched a reign of terrorism against blacks, carpetbaggers, scalawags and Republicans during Reconstruction in the South.[3]

So there is no way that the Bates do not know.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

no chore packs or jurisdictions. We saw them asking their kids to volunteer for jobs

They do have jurisdictions--I forget if it was on the ABC News thing or where, but one girl does the laundry, etc.... In spite of that Kelly has been said to do the packing, does actually do homeschool lessons, probably can cook, etc. And Erin is allowed to keep the money she earns giving piano lessons--but likely puts it toward school or something.

[tkr322]

They do have jurisdictions--I forget if it was on the ABC News thing or where, but one girl does the laundry, etc.... In spite of that Kelly has been said to do the packing, does actually do homeschool lessons, probably can cook, etc. And Erin is allowed to keep the money she earns giving piano lessons--but likely puts it toward school or something.

Wow, what a concept.... letting your child actually keep the money they earn!

Then again, they just go and borrow it from them later on though.

[Elster]

They do have jurisdictions--I forget if it was on the ABC News thing or where, but one girl does the laundry, etc.... In spite of that Kelly has been said to do the packing, does actually do homeschool lessons, probably can cook, etc. And Erin is allowed to keep the money she earns giving piano lessons--but likely puts it toward school or something.

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. Yes, I remember when Kelly packed, it was one of the earlier shows I think where they came to visit the Duggars.

I think even Erin's giving piano lessons is a step above the Duggar girls staying at home or doing volunteer work. I wonder if they'd even be allowed to take a paying job at this point. I'm sure they didn't get paid for cleaning the car lot from top to bottom.

[marmalade]

Wow, what a concept.... letting your child actually keep the money they earn!

Then again, they just go and borrow it from them later on though.

Erin had to borrow money from Lawson for tuition, so don't believe everything these people say or write. They're just as silver-tongued in their scripts as the Duggars and that's one they caught a ton of flack for since it was apparently new to their lexicon of twisted half-truths.

[Boogalou]

I do critcize the Bates some (see other places on this board) but I think Kelly does do some actual mothering as opposed to that other mother........

I also like that the Bates do not automatically delete negative comments on their blog (which they certainly may choose to do).

And, I like that they let Erin take real college class(es).

Nathan Bedforrd Forrest---it's Tennessee, not Chappaqua New York.......

So it's OK to be racist as long as you're in Tennessee? I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

[clover_leigh]

So it's OK to be racist as long as you're in Tennessee? I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

My thoughts exactly...

[Feberin]

I think some people feel they are less awful, though, because Kelly actually appears to like her children and not be a sociopath. I still don't like them or approve of their life choices but on that front she definitely wins over the Duggars.

This is how I feel. I don't think they're saints or awesome or anything. I think what they did to their horse was disgusting, that they should stop reproducing and that they are controlling their children just as much as the Duggars. But Kelley seems to get joy from her chidlren, which is more then we can say about Michelle. I don't think Kelly should get mother of the year or anything but she doesn't strike me as quite as batshit crazy as Michelle.

[elliesmash]

I think Kelly loves her children and sees them as actual living breathing things, while Michelle tends to see them as props. But there's a big difference between loving your children and taking good care of your children, and that's where they drop the ball. They have SO MANY children that are uninsured and allowed to essentially run wild, (there's a video with the Bates kids and their pony that makes me wonder how they've managed to avoid serious injury and/or death so far, if no one seems to realize that a bunch of five year olds crowding around a bucking, pissed-off pony might be kind of dangerous.) and SO MANY animals that appear to at least be in a state of benign neglect, while mom and dad disappear for a few nights of "sweet fellowship" together. It just makes me angry. I pay more attention to my husband's thirteen year old brother than they do to their own kids.