Biblical Beginnings blog on slavery

[formergothardite]

He is the same guy who thinks public schools are a lie and he was discussed on the blog former conservative, where he came to convert them but massively failed. Link to it:

http://formerconservative.wordpress.com ... revisited/

Anyway, he listed Doug Wilson (I dont' really know much about him except that I get him confused with the other Doug and it sounds like he thinks slavery was awesome) as a guy to study to learn more about Christian beliefs and then he was promptly called out on it. He responds on his blog by saying this about slavery.

But it is a story, taking us somewhere. We all have a part in it. Even the slaves when they lived had their own part. Maybe they were grossly treated: To God be the glory. The past is the past. We have pushed that shadow out of America. Stop dwelling on it already (I think). Good things can come from events that seem evil in our eyes.

Remember when the twin towers fell, and all the good that came from that? America was caring, hoping, and being compassionate. That was a good response. But we did not repent. We did not turn to the destitute in our own laps! And if we did, now what? We don't care. Give them back to the State. They should take care of them. They will treat them fairly. Like numbers. How is 1 different than 2?

I don't even understand what he is saying. It is a whole bunch of words that don't make any sense. I don't see how the 9/11 thing relates at all.

.biblicalbeginnings.com/2011/12/go-ahead-make-my-day.html

[gustava]

Nothing good came from the deaths of 3000 people in the twin towers. Slavery was wrong. This guy is nuts.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The most generous interpretation that I can give is this:

"I'm only a 19 year old guy, I'm a bit of an idiot who is trying to sound smart and I'm talking about a book that I haven't actually, you know, read. I also don't have nearly enough life experience or common sense, let alone wisdom, to possibly discuss the deeper meaning of evil and human suffering without sounding like a complete douchebag. Oh, and when I write "remember when the twin towers fell?" Well, I DON'T really remember it well, because I was only 9 years old and had no true grasp of the horror, which is why I can sound like an asshole when I talk about 9/11."

There are relatively few people gifted with the ability to talk with wisdom and compassion about finding meaning during times of human suffering. This dude is not one of those people.

[Discobiscuit]

Has this guy ever spoken to a historian ? Has he ever spoken to an African-American on the impact of slavery? Has he ever read a book on slavery in the American South? What a foolish, retarded child he is.

[debrand]

I followed this young man back to his blog. A young woman named Carrie comments about his convesation on A Former Conservative

I would say to talk in 'simpler' terms, but maybe that's just me. For example, my grandpa doesn't like to listen to people with 'fifty-dollar words' because he just doesn't understand them all, so he doesn't try to understand. While I think it's good to be educated, and while many of your words were apropos, and I understood them, it could be that some people might respect you less if you use them. Just a thought. Not meaning to 'dumb down' what you're saying, but just to explain it with words that more people will understand.

Really? This 18 year old lady is telling him to use smaller words so that the heathens can understand. She thinks that he sounds to educated? :roll:

I think that some of the girls who comment on these guys' blogs sound like fangirls.

[formergothardite]

No, this is a different guy. They both are friends with God's Daughter.

[formergothardite]

Even if God took something bad and made something good out of it, it still doesn't justify Doug Wilson's stance that slavery was good and the people fighting against it are bad.

[debrand]

No, this is a different guy. They both are friends with God's Daughter.

Thanks. I changed my post because I realized it wasn't the same guy. :oops:

We did not turn to the destitute in our own laps! And if we did, now what? We don't care. Give them back to the State.

It is a very noble sentiment to want to care for the poor. The problem is that in no time in history have private organizations been able to care for all the poor. In the past, people starved. I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't uncommon for children to starve in Victorian England.

During the forties and fifties, my mother's family were very poor.Her father was an abusive drunk that her mother couldn't escape. Her mother worked various jobs and sometimes the entire family worked for farmers. My mom still went hungry. When was this golden age when communities and churches took care of the poor?

Ending poverty isn't about just feeding people. Children need access to education so that they can get the skills needed to hold jobs. They need health care so that they can reach adulthood. I don't see how it is possible for private organizations to solve all those problems

[formergothardite]

And WTF is up with this line?

"Please quit milking me (so to speak)"

He was the one who started a blog post about them and went over there. It sounds like he is just mad because they pointed out errors in his logic and instead of admitting or addressing it he is just going to sulk.

[formergothardite]

Debrand, he doesn't believe people have a right to frivolous things like food, shelter, education or health care.

[annalena]

What exactly is this sentence supposed to mean?

"Maybe they were grossly treated: To God be the glory."

Where's the glory in that??

[formergothardite]

What exactly is this sentence supposed to mean?

"Maybe they were grossly treated: To God be the glory."

Where's the glory in that??

There is also no "maybe", it is, "They were grossly treated."

http://www.suite101.com/view_image.cfm/1092522

http://americanabolitionist.liberalarts ... shment.htm

[debrand]

What exactly is this sentence supposed to mean?

"Maybe they were grossly treated: To God be the glory."

Where's the glory in that??

He probably means enslaving, beating and raping an entire group based on their race (or for any reason)was just hunky dory because some of the slaves became Christian.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Just took a quick look at the Doug Wilson stuff myself. What a whack job.

[formergothardite]

Reading the Amazon reviews it looks like Doug Wilson wrote a whole book about how slavery was great and African Americans were better off being owned by the white people and that abuse was not common at all. Yeah, I think it is safe to say he is a racist. And this guy, Josiah, hasn't even read this book and he lends his support to the guy.

[Brainsample]

Wilson is definitely a very arrogant, slavery loving man.

Visit the internet archive to read on Dougsplotch and how he plagiarized sections of his book on slavery, covered up molestation, paid people off with church money, etc.

http://web.archive.org/web/200803100706 ... lotch.com/

Here is a link to a download summary of the plagiarism in the book: http://web.archive.org/web/200710091628 ... iarism.pdf

And here's a link of articles written by one of his former professors which talks more about his ideas about slavery:

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/slavepage.htm

Last but not least:

He thinks that the heathen has a right to abort their babies and that pro-life Christians should be glad.

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008 ... -post.html

(From his book, Mother Kirk)

Moving Beyond Pro-Life (sub-title in Chapter X)

Pgs 245 – 246

In the hard providence of God, He sometimes allows His enemies to destroy themselves. When the pagan nations outside Israel sent their children into the fires of Molech, Israel wasn’t called to blockade the fire and rescue the babies. And when Israelite kings followed Molech, the people were not commanded to revolt. Israelites were to make sure they didn’t kill their own children (Lev 20), but God-haters were left to destroy themselves (Is 57:13; Jer 5:19; 6:19, 21)…

Let them kill themselves, for “God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting†(Rom 1:28), even “murder†(Rom 1:29). This is the wrath of God…

[W]e must take up arms to defend God’s covenant children (Neh 4:14). But we may not use violence until they come after authorities or to defend the lives of Molech worshipers and their children. This is far more secular than biblical.

We must remember the antithesis. Scripture always remembers that deep chasm between those seeking to honor God and those who hate him. But this has not been a part of contemporary pro-life rhetoric.

The unbelievers are destroying themselves in a frenzy of child-murder and fruitless sodomy. Let them go. These are hard words. But Christians must learn to say them. Paul taught us that the children of God-haters are “foul†or “unclean†(I Cor 7:14). We must come to the day when the Christian can truly rebuke those who are “without natural affection†and say – “The ancient psalmist blessed the one who would take little ones of those who hate God and dash them on the rock (Ps 137:9). We see by your pro-abortion position that you clearly agree with this kind of treatment. And we in the Church, in a way you cannot truly comprehend, are now prepared to say amen.â€

[emmiedahl]

Ugh. Just, ugh.

First, comparing 9/11 to slavery is just silly. They are a completely different scale and a completely different issue. Slavery was not a one-time event that affected people in one city. Nuff said.

I believe that many people have an inner hero that will come out in great trials. The abolitionist movement, the first responders in 9/11, the Germans who hid Jews in basements and attics: these all are examples of people who had a chance to be a hero and took it. I am glad that so many people in this cold and heartless world have that inner fiber that makes them unselfish when the shit hits the fan, but I don't celebrate the shit hitting the fan. In a perfect, Godly world, this stuff would never happen.

9/11 has had lasting effects. Everyone was calling for war just because we were scared and angry, and those wars are still going on even after the fear has worn off. The effects of slavery can still be seen in Black communities. Where is the Powerful Christian God now?

[formergothardite]

Thank you Brainsample. Very interesting and disturbing facts about Doug Wilson. I have no doubt that young Josiah probably doesn't have a clue about any of this, he just has been told by Mommy, Daddy, church that Wilson is a great man and that is why he provided him as an example to that blog. His nonsensical ramblings of answers and then closing the comments shows he was totally unprepaired to back up the stuff he posted.

[Guest Anonymous]

Has this guy ever spoken to a historian ? Has he ever spoken to an African-American on the impact of slavery? Has he ever read a book on slavery in the American South? What a foolish, retarded child he is.

The guy is a an ignorant jerk and no doubt about it, but it's not cool to use the word retarded as an insult.

[formergothardite]

The guy is a an ignorant jerk and no doubt about it, but it's not cool to use the word retarded as an insult.

This. I managed to miss that part of the post, but we just had a whole thread about why using retarded to insult people is bad. Very bad. Please don't do so.

[Brainsample]

former gothardite,

I'm always happy to tell people about what a crumb Wilson is. He comes off as very intellectual, but he is really more arrogant than anything. I feel sorry for his wife (a little) who seems like a peach. I can't imagine what she copes with.

In Wilson's church, they joke around about granting divorces for wives not having the dishes clean. Whether or not that's the case in reality, I don't know. I think that their style of living is less restrictive than Vision Forum types. They are more "liberal" in the way that they live. Very restrictive complementarianism.

It's a pity because I think he really could be a fine teacher and preacher and likely is in some respects, but this patriarchy stuff (and slavery and the other weird doctrinal stuff he teaches) just ruins it all. But I have heard that he's a real arrogant jerk on a personal level.

And seeing your comments lately, I have got to tell you, I keep thinking to myself, "I am glad you are "former gothardite." You're a good analytical thinker which I know they don't reward there in Gothard land, and your comments here really give me lots of joy because you are out and away from the junk.