Abortion, Adoption and Postsecret

[lilwriter85]

I usually check it Post Secret on Mondays. I agree with others here, the emailer was in the wrong. Nobody know other than the other woman and her boyfriend know the reason for the abortion. Terrie also brought up a good point that there could be a medical reason for the abortion.

I think the emailer really didn't think when sent that email especially since Frank ended posting her mail address on the site. I think the e-mailer sounds desperate and sad over her miscarriage and she maybe thought she could buy a miracle.

[Rosa]

They don't see that--they only see the baby they long for, not the woman they expect to carry it.

This is it, it's the whole abortion debate - all about the babies, nothing about the woman or the pregnancy. This happened to me AGAIN recently, among a group of friends I think of as mostly feminist. We should overlook anti-choice actions by a politician if he's saying the right things about the economy. I mean, it's not like guys get to choose what happens to their babies!

The emailer may have been grief-stricken and making bad decisions, but she didn't go shoplift in the baby aisle at Target, or go on a mommy blog and say "Your baby is so cute! Give her to me, I will love her and you have two!" The culture of ignoring pregnant women and talking about abortion in terms of babies, and treating babies as commodities when talking about adoption, guided her action.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This is it, it's the whole abortion debate - all about the babies, nothing about the woman or the pregnancy. This happened to me AGAIN recently, among a group of friends I think of as mostly feminist. We should overlook anti-choice actions by a politician if he's saying the right things about the economy. I mean, it's not like guys get to choose what happens to their babies!

The emailer may have been grief-stricken and making bad decisions, but she didn't go shoplift in the baby aisle at Target, or go on a mommy blog and say "Your baby is so cute! Give her to me, I will love her and you have two!" The culture of ignoring pregnant women and talking about abortion in terms of babies, and treating babies as commodities when talking about adoption, guided her action.

You'd have to ask her, of course, but I'm not sure that's necessarily true.

First, I completely understand how a loss like that can completely alter your headspace. Trust me, I was as pro-choice as they come, and my day job was representing single moms. Even with that background, I couldn't tolerate any abortion discussion after my first loss, and I had all sorts of irrational thoughts and jealousy. I burst into tears when I found out my best friend was pregnant. I got angry when another friend mentioned that she saw nothing wrong with spanking and would use it if her daughter needed it - the daughter was 4 mos old at the time, I was holding her and part of me was longing to keep her. I got enraged by bad parents and by anyone who didn't seem to appreciate their pregnancy or their kids. I had enough of a filter to keep my thoughts to myself, but later learned through pregnancy loss support boards that I wasn't a freak and that these thoughts are common.

The other thing is that Postsecret is such a weird concept in the first place. It's anonymous, and not really like approaching a pregnant woman in real life. In a forum where people express their deepest, secret thoughts, maybe expressing the thought of adopting someone's baby didn't strike her as being as "out there" as actually going up to a real person.

[browncoatslytherin]

First, I completely understand how a loss like that can completely alter your headspace. Trust me, I was as pro-choice as they come, and my day job was representing single moms. Even with that background, I couldn't tolerate any abortion discussion after my first loss, and I had all sorts of irrational thoughts and jealousy. I burst into tears when I found out my best friend was pregnant. I got angry when another friend mentioned that she saw nothing wrong with spanking and would use it if her daughter needed it - the daughter was 4 mos old at the time, I was holding her and part of me was longing to keep her. I got enraged by bad parents and by anyone who didn't seem to appreciate their pregnancy or their kids. I had enough of a filter to keep my thoughts to myself, but later learned through pregnancy loss support boards that I wasn't a freak and that these thoughts are common.

i have to say, i agree with this. i had those same thoughts after my loss, and i still do. i just honestly don't know if i'll ever "get over it". sometimes i feel ok, but other times i still just want to do like my mother did: bawl while in the shower so no one can hear you. it's probably kinda cliche to say, "you just don't really know unless you've been through it" but it's true. and being around fundies can make it even harder, because most of the time they say something like, "well, it was god's plan..." and at that point you're thinking, "well FUCK god and FUCK his plan!" when you lose a child, and then you see someone willingly terminate a pregnancy, for me - unless it was for a medical reason - i can't help but think, "that's so unfair! i wanted my baby and couldn't have her [or him]!" i'm sure you can see where that thought train is going. and NO amount of rational thought can sweep that away. no matter how many times you remind yourself, "it's her body, it's her choice" it does NOTHING to dull that pain and that want.

this time of year is especially hard for me, because it's around this time of year i lost my baby. december 9th, in fact. being on meds the past few years has helped, but this year i'll be facing it without them. and i have no clue how it's going to go.

[cindyluvs24]

The poster needs to take a few days off? Back in the day, you had it done in the morning and went to night school that evening.

[Rosa]

I'm so sorry for both your losses, and I do understand a little bit of how you feel - but you both behaved appropriately despite your grief. Having the thought is not the same as doing something with it. It's the action that seems rude, not the emotions. Plus what about the Post Secret mods - they don't have the emotional issues, and this seemed ok to them?

Cindy - she might have to travel to get to a provider, depending where she lives - or her state might have a two-appointment rule (have to go in and get information and then wait 24 hours for the procedure.) Or she might just be feeling really private and wounded about it and not be able to face work.

[Clementine]

Does she think that the poster will go: "Oh, okay, I don't have to make a small medical procedure and then be done with the whole thing... I can just carry the baby for nine months (and have no idea how I will cope with a pregnancy) and everybody will know that I got knocked up by mistake, only to give the baby away to a complete stranger. Great idea why did I not think about that?" :roll:

Just because the woman is childless doesn't excuse that she's being completely insensitive and selfish.

Do you have "the day after pill" in the US? It's sold over the counter at all pharmacies here and are very convenient to have in the bathroom cupboard if something goes wrong.

[GeoBQn]

We have the morning after pill, but not every pharmacy stocks it and many states have laws protecting pharmacists who don't want to dispense it because of "personal convictions." That's a problem if you are in a small town with one pharmacy in driving distance.

[Austin]

We have the morning after pill, but not every pharmacy stocks it and many states have laws protecting pharmacists who don't want to dispense it because of "personal convictions." That's a problem if you are in a small town with one pharmacy in driving distance.

Anyone in the position of being sexually active and using methods of birth control that are usually quite effective but occasionally go wrong (i.e., condoms breaking, etc.) should consider keeping the morning after pill on hand. The last thing anyone wants to be doing after birth control malfunction is driving to and fro looking for a pharmacy that stocks it and a non-whackadoodle pharmacist who will sell it to them. I believe it has a shelf-life of one year and anyone 17 and over can purchase without a prescription. I don't even have daughters but keep a dose on hand.

Back O/T, I am disgusted by the emailer.

[lilwriter85]

I'm so sorry for both your losses, and I do understand a little bit of how you feel - but you both behaved appropriately despite your grief. Having the thought is not the same as doing something with it. It's the action that seems rude, not the emotions. Plus what about the Post Secret mods - they don't have the emotional issues, and this seemed ok to them?

Cindy - she might have to travel to get to a provider, depending where she lives - or her state might have a two-appointment rule (have to go in and get information and then wait 24 hours for the procedure.) Or she might just be feeling really private and wounded about it and not be able to face work.

I agree there could be different reasons to why the woman is taking a few days off from work. In some states, the providers are usually in major cities that could require people who live a few hours away to travel. I know someone in my city who worked at an abortion clinic and sometimes there were patients who lived 3 hours or more who had come to this city because there aren't providers in smaller towns and cities. Rosa you also bring up a good point about the woman possibly living in a two appointment rule state.

I really think the woman just wanted time for herself before going back to work.

[Guest Anonymous]

The original website has now removed the emailer's address, at her request. Would it be in-line with FJ policy to remove it from here as well since it is a personal email addy that she no longer wants to be public?

I think the email was hideously insensitive but am inclined to give her a pass as she was probably traumatised by her own situation (if what she says was true). If she needed a wake-up call then the hate-mail she has received so far will possibly have done the job.

[annalena]

Would that even be legal, if they agreed on adoption? Doesn't it have to go through some kind of state agency?

I wouldn't tell my employer about an abortion. Just because it is NO ONE'S BUSINESS.

[lilwriter85]

Would that even be legal, if they agreed on adoption? Doesn't it have to go through some kind of state agency?

I wouldn't tell my employer about an abortion. Just because it is NO ONE'S BUSINESS.

If an adoption happened they would have to contact a lawyer or a state agency. I think they would need to go through both a lawyer and a state agency, it depends on the laws of different states.

I think right now the e-mailer is probably kicking herself for doing that the whole thing on PostSecret, because she is probably thinking how dumb it was to ask to adopt that woman's baby. The e-mailer probably didn't think about state laws regarding adoption or other things that are difficult in the process and she most of all didn't think about the woman.

[kayray]

The choice about whether to abort or adopt is about so much more than the end result, and is not an easy to decision for any women to make. Adoption would still require her to carry a baby to term, put her health and body at risk, go through childbirth which has its own significant risks and consequences, and there goes that whole secrecy part she wanted! Pregnancy and childbirth is not just a walk in the park for all women and a lot of people also have a very deep fear of both (or significant health risks to them or a fetus)! I am positive the woman knew there were other options out there, and has chosen the one right for her.

The woman emailing was being very insensitive and self-absorbed. I feel for her and she is obviously in a lot of pain right now, but I really despise when women who are infertile or have other problems with carrying a pregnancy, try and guilt women who perhaps do not want a pregnancy (or children at all) into having babies for them, or tell them they are being insensitive about their infertility for wanting an abortion, or not wanting kids, or wanting a tubal ligation, or what have you.

I don't blame her for wanting a few days off. Even if it is the right choice for her, and she does not want to continue the pregnancy, it is often for many women still a very difficult process to go through. Yes, medically you may be alright after a day of taking it easy, but sometimes a few days of emotional healing are in order. And she certainly does NOT need to tell her employer she is getting an abortion!

[longskirtlotsakids]

It seems like kind of a weird thing to do .. but she did say she had JUST had her 2nd fallopian tube removed last week, getting rid of all chances of conceiving.. I would think she might just be in shock and mourning and came across this on the internet and decided it was worth a shot.

Well, that still doesn't remove all chances of conceiving. She could do IVF, or if that is out of her price range, she can "adopt" a frozen embryo that has been donated.

Her motives were understandable and I feel for anyone in this position, I really do. But Yeah. In totally shitty taste.

[quiningseven]

"I've never had anyone get angry at me because I wouldn't volunteer to donate a kidney for a stranger. But when I was younger I had infertile women get angry at me (or women like me) because when faced with an unplanned pregnancy I elected to end it, rather than let them (or people like them) adopt my unwanted kid. And I've never ceased to be stunned at how blindly insistent some women can be when insisting that other women ought to provide them with children."

This reminds me of a recent onion headline:

http://www.theonion.com/video/new-law-r ... ery,14393/

[2xx1xy1JD]

Does anyone else think that the Postsecrets format may have played a role? Again, I'm 40, and I had a law practice and husband before I had email. Is there a difference between approaching a live woman at an abortion clinic, vs. sending your thoughts to a picture of a postcard from an anonymous person?

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone sent in an anonymous postcard with the secret that they have fertility issues, feel insanely jealous and secretly wish that they could adopt the baby whenever they hear that someone is getting an abortion or see a parent who isn't doing a good job.

[kayray]

Does anyone else think that the Postsecrets format may have played a role? Again, I'm 40, and I had a law practice and husband before I had email. Is there a difference between approaching a live woman at an abortion clinic, vs. sending your thoughts to a picture of a postcard from an anonymous person?

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone sent in an anonymous postcard with the secret that they have fertility issues, feel insanely jealous and secretly wish that they could adopt the baby whenever they hear that someone is getting an abortion or see a parent who isn't doing a good job.

I am pretty sure there have been post secrets along those lines.

As someone who has heard these sorts of comments from women in person, I don't think the format changes some people's approach. Maybe some will think twice, but a lot will still make these comments either to the woman directly, or in a more backhanded & biting manner.

[Guest Anonymous]

Does anyone else think that the Postsecrets format may have played a role? Again, I'm 40, and I had a law practice and husband before I had email. Is there a difference between approaching a live woman at an abortion clinic, vs. sending your thoughts to a picture of a postcard from an anonymous person?

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone sent in an anonymous postcard with the secret that they have fertility issues, feel insanely jealous and secretly wish that they could adopt the baby whenever they hear that someone is getting an abortion or see a parent who isn't doing a good job.

I think there is a big difference between someone who secretly feels jealous and wishes they could adopt a baby and someone who actually approaches another person who is suffering the trauma of an abortion.

Life sucks in different ways for different people and having feelings is perfectly valid and no-one else's business..... unless you make it their business by your own behaviour.

[Mama Mia]

I think this may be an age thing too.... but it seems like if you are going to put out information/ideas/secrets on the internet you should expect to get a bunch of opinions back ( this site for example ).

[Boogalou]

The original website has now removed the emailer's address, at her request. Would it be in-line with FJ policy to remove it from here as well since it is a personal email addy that she no longer wants to be public?

I think the email was hideously insensitive but am inclined to give her a pass as she was probably traumatised by her own situation (if what she says was true). If she needed a wake-up call then the hate-mail she has received so far will possibly have done the job.

I removed the email. No one deserves to get hate mail and I don't want to be responsible for her continuing to get it.

[Lainey]

Totally off-topic, but since there was talk about the morning-after pill...

I was surprised to learn that it doesn't always work. I'm not sure why; I know nothing's 100% foolproof, but I was still surprised. I have a friend who had a condom break, so she got the morning-after pill, but it didn't work and she still had to get an abortion. I felt bad for her that she had to go through all that.

[Austin]

Totally off-topic, but since there was talk about the morning-after pill...

I was surprised to learn that it doesn't always work. I'm not sure why; I know nothing's 100% foolproof, but I was still surprised. I have a friend who had a condom break, so she got the morning-after pill, but it didn't work and she still had to get an abortion. I felt bad for her that she had to go through all that.

Nothing is 100%. There are all sorts of variables. But chances are pretty high that it will work if taken properly within the appropriate time frame (within 12 hours is recommended - this is why women should have it on hand). The farther out one gets from the event, the less the probability that it will work, plus some other drugs interfere. It is effective more than 90% of the time.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health ... l-4363.asp

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relation ... erpill.htm

[dramallama]

Totally off-topic, but since there was talk about the morning-after pill...

I was surprised to learn that it doesn't always work. I'm not sure why; I know nothing's 100% foolproof, but I was still surprised. I have a friend who had a condom break, so she got the morning-after pill, but it didn't work and she still had to get an abortion. I felt bad for her that she had to go through all that.

The morning-after pill primarily works by halting/delaying ovulation. So if you'd already ovulated and had a viable egg floating around in there shortly before taking the drug, it may be too late.

[kayray]

The morning-after pill primarily works by halting/delaying ovulation. So if you'd already ovulated and had a viable egg floating around in there shortly before taking the drug, it may be too late.

Yes. The MAP actually works just like the regular birth control pill, only it works on a more short term basis (my delaying or halting ovulation for 5 days, instead of for as long as you are taking pill). Emergency/morning after contraception also covers more than just Plan B. While they do sell Plan B of course and it is great for those who need it over the counter, if one is already on the birth control pill, but they think they missed a dose or something or they have not been taking pill but have some pills on hand that are still effective, they can contact their doctor to find out how to take their on-hand pills to be used as MAP (if they can, it depends on the pill's formulation whether it would be effective or not).

Effectiveness all depends on the time frame the MAP is taken, and where in the cycle she is, as well as just some plain luck.

(also, something many do not know, but getting an IUD (I know this applies for copper one, not sure about hormonal) within a window of time after unprotected sex also acts as emergency contraception).

Anyway, NO birth control is 100%, and how effective it is depends on the user, including how they practice the birth control and their body, etc.