"Working mothers choose to work--they don't have to"

[browncoatslytherin]

It was getting to the point before I had my son, that I was seriously considering checking myself into a psych unit I was so depressed and angry. I quit my job a month before I was scheduled to go on maternity leave and my mental health has DEFINITELY taken a turn for the better. Even with a bout of minor PPD.

i'm glad to hear you're doing better! i know from personal experience how hard mental issues can be.

[ilovetchotchkes]

i'm glad to hear you're doing better! i know from personal experience how hard mental issues can be.

It was terrifying. I'm so happy to be done. And I know that some people if they were SAHMs would feel the same way I do about working, so i'd NEVER judge a mama for working!

[Childless]

:clap: I agree, fathers never have to make "excuses" for working, yet the idea that a woman might work in order to keep a roof over their child's head, food in their bellies, and proper medical care through insurance is somehow considered evil. With the recession, sometimes those who started out with two incomes managed to keep their homes, while a single-income household whose wage earner got laid off ended up losing their house in foreclosure.

I have a fundie-lite sister who thinks mothers should not work (women in general she doesn't care about, just mothers). So, having children, she doesn't work. My brother-in-law was laid off when the recession began and they ended up losing their house and having to declare bankruptcy. On the other hand, my husband managed to make it through all the lay offs at his place of employment even though he'd only been there 3 years (we have no idea why he didn't get caught in one of the lay offs). But, it got us to thinking about what he would do if he were laid off since he was working on the factory floor and had no college degree to shop around should he loose his job. So, he quit and went back to school to get his degree. It was a job loss, just not the same type as my brother-in-law's. We didn't loose our home though because I worked and had a good job (thanks to a college degree). Who's providing for their children better, my family who have a modest, comfortable home or my sister's family who were tossed out on the street? Part of being a good mother is making sure your children don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from and don't have to worry about where they might have to live tomorrow. If that means getting up off your butt and going to work, then that's what you do. The thing that irked me the most with my sister is that, even though they lost the one income they had, she still refused to go get a job. With my brother-in-law out of work, she could have easily worked evenings and weekends since without a job, he wouldn't have to put in overtime. She even had the opportunity to be on the janitorial staff at the hospital where she would have qualified for medical insurance as a part time worker. At the very least, her family would have had health coverage. Which makes me mad again because both her son and one of her daughters had to have outpatient surgeries and they totally skipped out on the bills through their bankruptcy filing and left the tax payers holding the bag. But, you know, they hate socialism. :roll:

[apple1]

(My kids are adults now).

If I had not worked outside the home, we might have (barely) managed to keep it together with living in a single wide trailer (sorry, no offense to anyone who lives in a trailer) in the worst public school district in the our state. Without getting TOO personal, not sure we would even have that right now if I weren't working outside the home. The great job (I know, a relative term, but it was a good job with good benefits) gave out years ago, replaced with a decent job, then after a period of unemployment, with a job whose pay is quite low, all a result of changes in the economic climate. We certainly wouldn't have anything to retire on.

Also, it's not necessarily all or nothing. I worked part-time for years, keeping up with my profession while supplementing my husband's income, allowing us to stay afloat, but still having more time with my kids while they were growing.

I HATE HATE the phrase "women who CHOOSE to work". It's more like CHOOSE to keep our homes, CHOOSE to keep the utilities turned on, CHOOSE to have health insurance, CHOOSE to have money for groceries, etc, etc...

[annalena]

This goes two ways, doesn't it. Working fathers choose to work, too. Couldn't they send their wives to work and stay home all day, please? Otherwise they're NOT good fathers!!eleventy!!

I just talked about this recently. A single mom is a bad mom when she decided to work full time, at least over here. A single dad who decides to work is just a man who needs a career. Um, yes.

[JesusFightClub]

Not a mother, but I am female, and I am the only person with a steady job where I live. WTF is supposed to happen if I pack it in and can't pay the rent? Cardboard box in the street for me is what, let alone the effect it would have on others.

These women are speaking from a position of great privilege, even for the vastly better off West. Their arrogance is astounding.

[acheronbeach]

Yeah - as a divorced single Mom who's x decided not to pay child support regularly, I'm sure I have a choice to quite my job. We don't need no stinkin' health insurance, food on the table, or a decent place to live.

x2... when my best friend's husband decided to leave her for a girlfriend he met at work, and decided to use his child support as a weapon, what was she supposed to do to support her three kids?

BTW, best friend was a very doting SAHM. Now she's back to work so she won't lose her house.

[Peas n carrots]

I have a fundie-lite sister who thinks mothers should not work (women in general she doesn't care about, just mothers). So, having children, she doesn't work. My brother-in-law was laid off when the recession began and they ended up losing their house and having to declare bankruptcy.

CL, how are they doing now? As much as fun dies make me gag, for the sake of the kids I hope hey have a roof over their heads.

What's wrong with stay at home dads too? If my DH and I ever have kids, he would be the one to stay at home. For one, I make significantly more money than he does, and two he does freelance website design/ social media management, which is something he can do from home as well. It just makes more sense in our situation for him to stay home with a kid.

This is why I hate fundie bullshizz. Every situation is as unique as the people who are involved, but yet they have this one sized fits all view of the world, and if you don't fit it ur doin' it wrong.

[ilovetchotchkes]

CL, how are they doing now? As much as fun dies make me gag, for the sake of the kids I hope hey have a roof over their heads.

What's wrong with stay at home dads too? If my DH and I ever have kids, he would be the one to stay at home. For one, I make significantly more money than he does, and two he does freelance website design/ social media management, which is something he can do from home as well. It just makes more sense in our situation for him to stay home with a kid.

This is why I hate fundie bullshizz. Every situation is as unique as the people who are involved, but yet they have this one sized fits all view of the world, and if you don't fit it ur doin' it wrong.

I (even though I'm not a fundie) think stay at home dads RULE! My husband was originally gonna be "Mr Mom" because he was working from home.

What gets me, is that the fundies have little to no grasp of hard reality and how people's lives REALLY are.

[gilora]

Dads don't have to justify going to work, but they are often called on to justify choosing to work part time or to stay home with the kids. On hearing of our family circumstances (I work full time, Mr. gilora works part time), someone actually asked my husband "what, don't you make enough money?" :evil:

With the cost of a college education in the US, I don't know how a family can expect to send their children to college on a single income, unless mom or dad works on Wall Street. I know sending your kids to college is not a requirement, but it's something I feel strongly about being able to do.

Don't get me started on retirement ...

[GoJiRa]

I am the sole income in my house because work studies were cut and dh's school schedule is heavy and erratic. We still receive various forms of public assistance, which is typical as most assistance-receivers also work. My kids are not currently in daycare, but they have been and it was an amazing experience.

I guess my point is that people work because they have to in many cases. Some women work because they want to, and that is fine. But a lot of us are just really materialistic and feel like having a modest home and vehicle. So we work.

I have said for years if one parent stayed home in every family that had two parents the demand for workers in the US would go through the roof. So would salaries. Doesn't matter which parent stays home.

[emmiedahl]

Gojira, do you have research, or is that just your personal opinion? My husband was laid off from a field that was almost entirely male (and one that caters its products to two-income homes as well). If women dropped out of the workforce, there would still be this who economy issue.

As for the working mom issue, I completely intend to work even after my husband is out of school and gainfully employed. Yes, it will be for "extras" because my husband could minimally but comfortably support us. I'm not wasting my MD scrubbing toilets at home all day; I will be working and driving nicer cars, going on vacations, building up college funds and giving more to charities.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Gojira, do you have research, or is that just your personal opinion? My husband was laid off from a field that was almost entirely male (and one that caters its products to two-income homes as well). If women dropped out of the workforce, there would still be this who economy issue.

As for the working mom issue, I completely intend to work even after my husband is out of school and gainfully employed. Yes, it will be for "extras" because my husband could minimally but comfortably support us. I'm not wasting my MD scrubbing toilets at home all day; I will be working and driving nicer cars, going on vacations, building up college funds and giving more to charities.

I don't think that one parent staying home would solve our economic crisis. I think that that is fueled in some cases by a refusal to work. - For example, I knew a family who the woman stayed home because it was "her job" (even though the kids were in school) and the husband was unemployed. No argument was good enough to convince her to get off her butt and get a job. They weren't xtian fundies so they were ok with getting support from the state. Had she had a job and used her money, instead of the money that the tax payers gave her, it would be better for the economy.

As far as being a stay at home mom. Its a choice i've made, and I'm not "employed" but I take in sewing alterations, clean an occasional house etc for "mad money". However, if my husband were to lose his job, the first thing I would do is update my resume and even if I had to work a horrid retail job that I hated, I would do so just to keep the roof over our heads. Our plan is to homeschool, (no SDRT/college plus for us! I have a college degree from a REAL university!) but if our financial situation isn't great at that point? I'll suck it up, find a job and put my kids in the public school.

My responsibilities as a parent are keeping my kids clothed, fed, warm with a roof over their heads. My ideals on how I want them to be educated take a backseat to their basic needs. If that means I have to work, then that's what I'll do. Currently its not my situation, but if it becomes that, then I will work.

And I think that's what infuriates me about these fundies. A lot of these QF kids well, I'm sure they're not going to bed with full bellies, or they're crammed 10 to one bedroom on costco pallets. If they'd send them to *gasp* ebil public schools while mom got even a part time retail job, i think their lives would be a LOT more comfortable.

EDITED TO ADD: If i were in the situation where I was even considering a situation like the life in a shoe woman, I'd take a long hard look at how financially things are going and realize, yeah I need to work. As it is, i'm incredibly lucky and blessed that my husband makes just enough for us to be comfortable. No, we don't have cable, nor do we go on vacations but I'm OK with that. Some people would not be, and that's ok!

[annalena]

As for the working mom issue, I completely intend to work even after my husband is out of school and gainfully employed. Yes, it will be for "extras" because my husband could minimally but comfortably support us. I'm not wasting my MD scrubbing toilets at home all day; I will be working and driving nicer cars, going on vacations, building up college funds and giving more to charities.

Just wanted to leave this one- even if a woman (or man, for that matter) with your degree decided to stay home or do something entirely different, I don't think that means it's "wasted". It still broadens your horizon and education, and God knows what it might have led you to that you wouldn't have found otherwise. Even if you're doing the wrong thing that makes you realize it's not your thing at all... that's something you've gained from doing it already!

I know a girl who's a doctor, she finished med school, then decided she'd rather work at a vegan supermarket and become a speaker for veganism. She's very happy that way and I think she contributes more to society than she would as an unhappy doctor.

[JesusFightClub]

Gojira, do you have research, or is that just your personal opinion? My husband was laid off from a field that was almost entirely male (and one that caters its products to two-income homes as well). If women dropped out of the workforce, there would still be this who economy issue.

As for the working mom issue, I completely intend to work even after my husband is out of school and gainfully employed. Yes, it will be for "extras" because my husband could minimally but comfortably support us. I'm not wasting my MD scrubbing toilets at home all day; I will be working and driving nicer cars, going on vacations, building up college funds and giving more to charities.

You are correct emmiedahl. It is absolute bollocks on Gojira's part, historically, socially and economically.

The reason we are in recession/crisis is nothing to do with two parents working outside home. That is ahistorical shite. It's a feature of capitalism (and late capitalism in particular) that there is a boom and bust cycle. Not a bug. A feature.

We're sat in the bust part. Sucks to be us. But there is an alternative...

[emmiedahl]

I firmly believe that 8+ years of postsecondary education in the sciences would be somewhat wasted as a housewife. It is just unnecessary. I was a homeschooling housewife before chasing a doctorate and I did a fine job with just 4 years of college.

There is nothing wrong with following your heart even if it means "wasting" a good education. It should be noted that medical school is an unusual case because there are limited slots, and the US really needs more doctors, so ideally everyone with an MD or DO is using it at least part-time. We can't really afford to have female doctors staying at home, although I support the individual right to do so.

It bothers me right now, in my current financial situation, that I cannot give my kids a lot of creature comforts. They are clothed and fed and housed, but I would love to send them to private school, to take them on awesome vacations, to drive them to school on an icy morning instead of walking, to give each one their own bedroom, to surprise them with that expensive pair of sneakers they covet, etc. Not to mention my own wants, like a huge Craftsman house and a new car and bags of Sephora makeup. I am sure when I am through medical school that fundies will judge me for working for these "unnecessary" things. But I will be so happy to provide them!

[YPestis]

I think the current economy has taught everyone the importance of having marketable job skills. Husbands can lose their jobs through no fault of their own and it's foolhardy to have another able bodied adult at home while the family is starving or homeless.

I think it's especially hypocritical of people who detest "socialism" who turn around and take advantage of the system believing their situation is the exception. Our welfare system certain has its problems and we may be too generous with certain people who make bad choices, but there are plenty of people with "exceptional" cases with whom welfare was designed to help. I especially dislike those that talk the talk about smaller gov't than skip out on their health care bills, or continue to take extended unenmployment benefits...uhm, who do you think pays for those? Hospital stays aren't "free" and when you continue to extend unemployment benefit long after it was designed to run out, it is a type of welfare.

I sometimes wonder if some fundie women change their worldview when they are forced to seek outside employment. I'd like to think some realize the vulnerability their beliefs place on their families. How is anything pro-family when it means only one parent can be capable of feeding, clothing and keeping a roof over the head of a child?

[Rosa]

You know what WOULD force more hiring, though?

If all the people who work overtime off the clock just up and stopped. No more. Fuck "salary" status. Hire enough people to do the work. Not to mention all the folks who "can't" take vacation and let their accrued hours go back to the company for free.

[GoJiRa]

Gojira, do you have research, or is that just your personal opinion? My husband was laid off from a field that was almost entirely male (and one that caters its products to two-income homes as well). If women dropped out of the workforce, there would still be this who economy issue.

As for the working mom issue, I completely intend to work even after my husband is out of school and gainfully employed. Yes, it will be for "extras" because my husband could minimally but comfortably support us. I'm not wasting my MD scrubbing toilets at home all day; I will be working and driving nicer cars, going on vacations, building up college funds and giving more to charities.

Its just a thought I had. It would be nearly impossible to pull off

[Guest Anonymous]

You know what WOULD force more hiring, though?

If all the people who work overtime off the clock just up and stopped. No more. Fuck "salary" status. Hire enough people to do the work. Not to mention all the folks who "can't" take vacation and let their accrued hours go back to the company for free.

My brother is in this situation and he's not even salaried. He's expected by his employer to show up and begin work before he's scheduled, and then go clock in an hour later. He works late off the clock as well. It makes me furious. It's wage slavery. He has a child to support and he must have the job to keep his insurance for himself and his kid. Plus he's working so much he doesn't have time to look for another job even if he could find one with his homeschool "education." I'm on his back like a monkey trying to get him to take his GED and start taking steps to get out of there.

[annalena]

You are correct emmiedahl. It is absolute bollocks on Gojira's part, historically, socially and economically.

The reason we are in recession/crisis is nothing to do with two parents working outside home. That is ahistorical shite. It's a feature of capitalism (and late capitalism in particular) that there is a boom and bust cycle. Not a bug. A feature.

We're sat in the bust part. Sucks to be us. But there is an alternative...

Yes on the boom and bust cycle. Want to recommend an AWESOME youtube video that I dearly love, but unfortunately very little people think is awesome (at least they don't think it's as uber awesome as I think, guess I am a little bit of a geek here, but it's very educational!):

d0nERTFo-Sk

What exactly would be the alternative, then, JFC ?;)

/edited a gazillion times because embedding youtube is really not all that simple... to me.

[annalena]

WHY is this not working??? What do I have to do to make the youtube link nice with the video right here?? Aaaahhh

[Guest Anonymous]

WHY is this not working??? What do I have to do to make the youtube link nice with the video right here?? Aaaahhh

Only put the video code inside the YouTube tags. Whatever comes after the v= is what you want.

[annalena]

My brother is in this situation and he's not even salaried. He's expected by his employer to show up and begin work before he's scheduled, and then go clock in an hour later. He works late off the clock as well. It makes me furious. It's wage slavery. He has a child to support and he must have the job to keep his insurance for himself and his kid. Plus he's working so much he doesn't have time to look for another job even if he could find one with his homeschool "education." I'm on his back like a monkey trying to get him to take his GED and start taking steps to get out of there.

May surprise some, but at a true capitalist and business student, I can only support this!! Capitalism is NOT about exploiting people. In the long run, this is going to serve no one. Companies need to start consider themselves as a brand in terms of hiring.

(I might just go back to a thesis because this is exactly , well kind of what I am writing about.... :whistle: )

[annalena]

Only put the video code inside the YouTube tags. Whatever comes after the v= is what you want.

It wooooooorks!! Thaaaanks!