Student hangs confederate flag in dorm room

[annalena]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/bl ... 34484.html

 

God forbid he had been white.

 

Okay, let the raging begin (And by that I mean telling me it's a whole difdifferent story since he's black.)

[annalena]

Oh snap, shall this go to chatter, please?

[JesusFightClub]

I actually had this debate last night but I was stoned so.I only remember bits of it. ;)

Flags and symbols are really weird things. I do not like most national flags, including my own. I have indeed been present at a flag burning, although it was kind of in the spirit of amused tolerance.

Having said that I think the guy should be allowed to have the flag if he likes. It shows his beliefs to other people. They can then decide to associate with him or not, as he's pretty clearly set out his stall.

[maybeizfundie]

As much as I hate flag and what it represents, if any other kind of symbolism or personal expression is allowed in dorm rooms, then this ought to be too.

[GoJiRa]

Freedom of speech. I have seen idiots who are white hanging confederate flags in their picture windows.

[annalena]

Well, it's not exactly speech, is it.

I know it would be a pretty damn sure way to get a free ride to the police station if I hung up certain symbols here.

[gustava]

I went to Univ of South Carolina back in the stone age, when "Dixie" was sung at every football game and the confederate flag was simply a given. I always said that the easiest way to make the song and flag unacceptable would be if black students adopted both en masse. At least in those days, white folks would have dropped them both like hot potatoes!

[Alecto]

Well, it's not exactly speech, is it.

I know it would be a pretty damn sure way to get a free ride to the police station if I hung up certain symbols here.

In the US, "Freedom of Speech" is often used to mean Freedom of Expression, which is constitutionally protected in the United States.

I think you are projecting your own cultural biases on the situation. In the United States, there are no laws prohibiting the hanging of what we would considered bigoted material up, unless that material was profane (such as a naked person), dangerous (such as a burning cross on your own property during a burn ban) or on someone else's property. What this young man did was neither. Therefore, legally, he is well within his rights in the United States to hang up his confederate flag.

Do I agree with him? Not one little bit. I think it will always represent hate, and the only legitimate reason to have one is if you are some sort of civil war museum or historical society. Would I fight to defend his right to have one? Absolutely.

[browncoatslytherin]

In the US, "Freedom of Speech" is often used to mean Freedom of Expression, which is constitutionally protected in the United States.

I think you are projecting your own cultural biases on the situation. In the United States, there are no laws prohibiting the hanging of what we would considered bigoted material up, unless that material was profane (such as a naked person), dangerous (such as a burning cross on your own property during a burn ban) or on someone else's property. What this young man did was neither. Therefore, legally, he is well within his rights in the United States to hang up his confederate flag.

Do I agree with him? Not one little bit. I think it will always represent hate, and the only legitimate reason to have one is if you are some sort of civil war museum or historical society. Would I fight to defend his right to have one? Absolutely.

QFT

[GoJiRa]

Alecto, once again you said it perfectly.

In the US, "Freedom of Speech" is often used to mean Freedom of Expression, which is constitutionally protected in the United States.

I think you are projecting your own cultural biases on the situation. In the United States, there are no laws prohibiting the hanging of what we would considered bigoted material up, unless that material was profane (such as a naked person), dangerous (such as a burning cross on your own property during a burn ban) or on someone else's property. What this young man did was neither. Therefore, legally, he is well within his rights in the United States to hang up his confederate flag.

Do I agree with him? Not one little bit. I think it will always represent hate, and the only legitimate reason to have one is if you are some sort of civil war museum or historical society. Would I fight to defend his right to have one? Absolutely.

[Kelya]

If he hung it out his window or as a curtain, the school just needs to change their rules to make it so that no fabric coverings are permitted on or out of windows. Also, if he has a roommate, a complaint from the roommate would be enough to get it taken down, since they share a space and a window.

Sounds to me like a person desperate to make a name for himself on campus. He could just as easily have hung it up inside his dorm room, for his own viewing pleasure, but instead he makes a big show out of it, at a time when parents and families are visiting campus. All things aside, he's acting like a total attention hog.

[kb2]

In the South, we learn in school that the start of the Civil War didn't have anything to do with slavery. At all. That the Confederacy was set up because people disagreed on economic policy and how much power should be given to the federal government vs state government. The facts that the economic policies that were disagreed upon involved whether or not to own people, and "states rights" was mostly focused on the state's ability to legalize slavery are translated into, "The Civil War was not fought over slavery."

And everyone learns this, in our now-integrated schools. It's repeated over and over in some circles that the Confederate flag isn't a symbol of people who wanted to keep slavery around, but a symbol of people who had some quaint ideas about nineteenth-century economic policy, with whom all southerners share a culture. There are some blatant racists who fly it, but there are lots of people whose friends, family, and elementary school history teacher all agree with the "quaint" framing of the historical impact of the flag. Denying the Civil War's intimate connection with slavery helps perpetuate a lot of racial problems by mischaracterizing the historical reasons why the world works the way it does today, but it's not the type of blatant racism flag-wavers are usually accused of, so they often don't see themselves in the criticism.

[Caxpax]

n the South, we learn in school that the start of the Civil War didn't have anything to do with slavery. At all. That the Confederacy was set up because people disagreed on economic policy and how much power should be given to the federal government vs state government. The facts that the economic policies that were disagreed upon involved whether or not to own people, and "states rights" was mostly focused on the state's ability to legalize slavery are translated into, "The Civil War was not fought over slavery."

And this is why I firmly believe the US should have a national curriculum. My nephew lives in GA and I shudder to think what he is learning in his public school.

[GoJiRa]

Would this garbage be part of your national curriculum? http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/ ... ate-looms/

And this is why I firmly believe the US should have a national curriculum. My nephew lives in GA and I shudder to think what he is learning in his public school.

[debrand]

In the South, we learn in school that the start of the Civil War didn't have anything to do with slavery. At all. That the Confederacy was set up because people disagreed on economic policy and how much power should be given to the federal government vs state government. The facts that the economic policies that were disagreed upon involved whether or not to own people, and "states rights" was mostly focused on the state's ability to legalize slavery are translated into, "The Civil War was not fought over slavery."

And everyone learns this, in our now-integrated schools. It's repeated over and over in some circles that the Confederate flag isn't a symbol of people who wanted to keep slavery around, but a symbol of people who had some quaint ideas about nineteenth-century economic policy, with whom all southerners share a culture. There are some blatant racists who fly it, but there are lots of people whose friends, family, and elementary school history teacher all agree with the "quaint" framing of the historical impact of the flag. Denying the Civil War's intimate connection with slavery helps perpetuate a lot of racial problems by mischaracterizing the historical reasons why the world works the way it does today, but it's not the type of blatant racism flag-wavers are usually accused of, so they often don't see themselves in the criticism.

Grrr. This drives me up the wall.(None of that growling was directed at you, kb2) When I went to school in NC, we learned that states rights meant that southerners wanted the right to own slaves in the new territories. However, I went to school on a military base so perhaps my education was a bit different than other southerners.

All the so called other reasons that some southerners cite for the Civil War lead back to the right to own slaves.

I agree that not all southerners that fly the Confederate flag realizes how racist it is. I think that they are being willfully ignorant though.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I agree that not all southerners that fly the Confederate flag realizes how racist it is. I think that they are being willfully ignorant though.

I want to know if they ever discuss how the Confederate battle flag was adopted as a symbol in the mid-20th century by people against integration and the civil rights movement. For a lot of people upset by the symbol, THAT is the more relevant period.

[debrand]

I want to know if they ever discuss how the Confederate battle flag was adopted as a symbol in the mid-20th century by people against integration and the civil rights movement. For a lot of people upset by the symbol, THAT is the more relevant period.

Nope. They never discuss that. My son got in an argument with his friend over this issue. My son couldn't believe that people aren't aware of how racist the flag is.

[kb2]

I want to know if they ever discuss how the Confederate battle flag was adopted as a symbol in the mid-20th century by people against integration and the civil rights movement. For a lot of people upset by the symbol, THAT is the more relevant period.

I think part of the problem with that is that American history class always starts with Columbus and ends with WWII (if you're lucky). I think we officially covered Columbus 10/12 years while I was in school, and integration once, and even then it was squeezed into the end of the school year, and there was hardly a comprehensive breakdown of the politics of the 50s and 60s (and 70s and 80s).

[kamcho_papio]

The other part of the problem with the Confederate flag is that it is specifically a war standard; several Southern states had Confederate era flags that were simple and dignified, such as a magnolia tree or something less martial.

I don't like pulling out the treason card, but the Confederate flag literally represents separatism, and many (if not most) people don't seem to grasp the idea that if you support the idea of the Confederacy, you're opposed to the idea of the Union. Most folks eager to wave the Confederate flag would also most likely be good dictionary definitions for patriotic and/or jingoistic.

That aside, I'm a non-Southerner who has lived in the deep South for the majority of my adult life and that flag is something I haven't gotten used to.

But yeah, free speech, etc.

edited for riffles

[GoJiRa]

The confederate flag no matter what it signifies is part of this countries history. If I see someone hanging that rag in their picture window (yes there are morons who do this) I know I want nothing to do with them.

[Boogalou]

I think part of the problem with that is that American history class always starts with Columbus and ends with WWII (if you're lucky). I think we officially covered Columbus 10/12 years while I was in school, and integration once, and even then it was squeezed into the end of the school year, and there was hardly a comprehensive breakdown of the politics of the 50s and 60s (and 70s and 80s).

I was doing a history course that basically covered up to modern times and our prof told us that 50 years before present and later are considered politics, not history. Maybe that's why you never learned it? History classes in Canada suck too. In my years of Canadian history I have learned about the Berring Starit, Native culture just before contact, the settlement of New France and the filles de roi, Louis Riel and confederation, WWI, and WWII. That's it. I'm pretty sure that I'm missing a lot (AKA: everything that happened in between the late 1600's up to 1867, then the late 1800's up until WWI, but nothing important happened then, right?)

As to the flag; my dorm had about 89,000 arbitrary rules about whatever they wanted. I'm having trouble loading the article so can only go off what everyone here has said. If it's in his window most dorms have rules about what can be in your window (the ones I know of pretty much say you can't have anything). They also have a lot of (theoretical) control about what you can put in your room and where you can put it. By agreeing to live in the dorms, you are agreeing to live by their rules and if they tell him to take it down he needs to.

Even if the dorm doesn't have any rules like that and they deem the flag hateful, he should take it down. I really don't think hate speech should be a protected class under freedom of speech. I'm Canadian, so our cultural attitudes tend to be different than American's more passionate defence of freedom of speech. I just don't think that hate speech should be protected (I realize that their are a lot of implications that this attitude can have, but until I see some proof of that happening (in somewhere like Canada) then I'm sticking to my beliefs). I also don't care if the original hanger of the flag is black. If other people can see it than it is affecting them and they don't need to be around hateful symbols.

[GoJiRa]

If you can't learn beyond what your pinko college professor is teaching you you are nothing but a sheep

[emmiedahl]

Would this garbage be part of your national curriculum? http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/ ... ate-looms/

Oh, HORRORZ that a 16 year old might read a book in school with a gay person in it! (much dramatic hand-wringing)

[Kitty]

I think a black kid hanging up a Confederate flag is either a troll or a total fucking moron.

Confederate flags are actually banned at my rural NC high school. Didn't at all change the culture or the self-segregation of the students by race. Well, more like black and white was separate, there weren't enough Hispanics, Asians, etc. to have their own groups, so they hung out with the white people. Didn't stop one guy from driving to school in a huge white truck, with Confederate flag stickers and two big Confederate flags flying from the back end. I don't know how he got away with that. But we have a big enough black population that that's really not a smart idea, and plenty of Yankees moving in.

He should definitely take it down, because if it's in the window, folks who don't know better will not know that the person who put it up is black, and that will really turn people off to the college because they think racism is OK there.

Also, to me the Confederate flag represents not only racism, but sexism, classism, willful ignorance, lack of education, and wasted potential. I can't believe people would actually be proud of that shit.