Josiah shilling for College Plus

[Aurora]

With 19 kids (and one on the way), I'm willing to be at least a few will escape to college. The show is exposing the kids to people they usually don't associate with such as the camera crew. The Duggar kids are traveling and meeting people for their shows, and I can only see that as a good thing. Maybe one of the Duggar girls will get into her head that she wants to be a marine biologist because she met a really awesome one. Maybe that dream of doing more than popping out babies will propel her to eventually go to college. With that many kids, there's gotta to be a few that will turn into the family black sheep, right? :D

Well, that would be great, and I certainly hope it will happen. I think most of the kids are smart and could make something of their lives. But something will have to happen to make JB and M relinquish control, if only the passage of time and their growing tired of trying to control so many people.

[JenniferJuniper]

With 19 kids (and one on the way), I'm willing to be at least a few will escape to college. The show is exposing the kids to people they usually don't associate with such as the camera crew. The Duggar kids are traveling and meeting people for their shows, and I can only see that as a good thing. Maybe one of the Duggar girls will get into her head that she wants to be a marine biologist because she met a really awesome one. Maybe that dream of doing more than popping out babies will propel her to eventually go to college. With that many kids, there's gotta to be a few that will turn into the family black sheep, right? :D

Odds are a couple will someday turn and run. I just wish the show was ending now so things could start moving in a more natural direction. It's effectively keeping everything in a holding pattern. Yet another Duggar comes of age this month. Five adult kids in the house now. Aside from JD and his tow truck, none working jobs or going to school outside the home. No dating, not even any suitors in the picture. Just scores of pre-adolescent brothers, toddler sisters, and soon precious addition number 20 to tend to. I really believe the show just makes Jim Bob's grip on them just that much tighter. The grip will always be there, but the need to keep up pretenses should lessen once the cameras finally stop rolling. Thanks to Michelle and her amazing Technicolor dream uterus, that's not going to happen for at least another season or two now.

[annalena]

Judging by the comments, I think people are starting to wake up.

[Daenerys]

College Plus is such a joke. Some sample questions from their online CLEP American Literature practice test: http://www.collegeplus.org/clep/clep-am ... literature. I can not stress enough that they consider answering these multiple choice questions college-level work in literature.

Thoreau wrote Civil Disobedience, the poem is about a snake, Ethan Fromme is the Wharton with the death sled, and Grapes of Wrath is about the Joad family. I could've answered all of these questions off the top of my head by tenth grade, but to College Plus, rattling off the answers to these farcically easy multiple choice questions is the same as completing a full semester of college-level English Lit. I don't know about you, but in my university's lit classes, students were expected to read fiction deeply and critically, to engage thoughtfully with our assigned books, take them apart and analyze how they worked, and then produce long essays where we discussed our ideas intelligently, clearly, and persuasively. To put these stupid multiple choice questions about who wrote what on the same level as the work that university students actually have to do is insulting to everyone involved.

I am so ashamed that as an English Lit student I could only answer the poem question! I'm hoping these are all American authors so I have half an excuse...

[MrsYoungie]

I don't know about the snake poem, but all the other authors & poets are American (of course). Only Americans have contributed to the wealth of English Literature, dontcha know?

[gustava]

I don't know about the snake poem, but all the other authors & poets are American (of course). Only Americans have contributed to the wealth of English Literature, dontcha know?

Emily Dickinson is the snake poet.

[VodouDoll]

All the authors are American because it's an American Lit exam. It doesn't look like CollegeMinus offers English Lit.

[O Latin]

To be fair, though, these tests are only designed to get credit for the basic 101 classes, right? They're still too easy, but now that I think about it, all of the 101/102 classes I've taken were so easy I could pass them in my sleep. One class in particular, I sat in the back working on other stuff the whole time, didn't read the book, didn't study for the test, and still got a 99%. I don't think I've ever had to write a paper for a 100-level class. It's not really until you get into upper-division that you start getting deep into analyzing and whatnot (case in point: three of my four classes this semester don't even have finals, we have to write papers instead).

[VodouDoll]

In my 101 lit class we got into real analysis, with a 20-page final essay and weekly shorter writing assignments (maybe 3-5 pages). There was a ton of reading. Everyone was expected to have read each assignment twice before coming to class so that we'd know the books backwards and forwards, and to be prepared to thrash out the books' mechanics and themes in twice-weekly class discussions. No way would I have passed the course, much less earned a 99%, by blowing off the reading, not studying, and doing something else during class time instead of participating. It sounds like your professor was a very poor teacher.

[O Latin]

Well, it probably depends on the school some, too. At my university, any class below a 200-level is probably going to be so huge that the prof won't do anything other than lecture and give multiple choice tests because they don't feel like grading umpty-zillion papers or essay tests.

I didn't take English 101, so I don't know how that class works, specifically, although I'm pretty sure it does include writing because that's the point. I was referring to 101 classes in general.

Full disclosure: the class I got a 99% in without trying was sociology (if it makes a difference). There were over 100 students in the class and the prof was lazy. I've only taken one Lit. class (I would love to take more, but only English majors are allowed to take the upper-division Lit classes here), and we did have to discuss and analyze and write papers.

[puddle]

I used CP when it was pretty new. Didn't find it particularly helpful beyond cutting down on some of the time it would have taken me to research class requirements etc. at Thomas Edison.

I'm confused though... some of you seem to be saying that CP actually designs its own tests? For credit?? If they do, that has changed since I was involved with it. Everything I took (CLEP tests, DANTES tests, distance learning courses, etc) was through a separate institution. CP only helped coordinate things and make sure I was on track.

[FJismyheadship]

Does anybody else think Josiah sounds totally scripted? Did he even say all this stuff, or just pose for the picture?

[liltwinstar]

Well, it probably depends on the school some, too. At my university, any class below a 200-level is probably going to be so huge that the prof won't do anything other than lecture and give multiple choice tests because they don't feel like grading umpty-zillion papers or essay tests.

That's true for a lot of lower division classes; however, lower-division literature classes are known to be *really* heavy on the reading. You typically take a year (either two semesters or three quarters) each of American Lit and British Lit. In the British Lit class you start wtih Beowulf (usually) and end with the Post-Colonial period; in American Lit you start with Native American myth and get at least as far as Ginsberg and Kerouac. So, it is usually a *ton* of reading becuase there's so much material to cover.

[Kelya]

That's true for a lot of lower division classes; however, lower-division literature classes are known to be *really* heavy on the reading. You typically take a year (either two semesters or three quarters) each of American Lit and British Lit. In the British Lit class you start wtih Beowulf (usually) and end with the Post-Colonial period; in American Lit you start with Native American myth and get at least as far as Ginsberg and Kerouac. So, it is usually a *ton* of reading becuase there's so much material to cover.

Exactly. Since the whole point of lower division classes is to prepare for further work in the field (or give a solid knowledge base for people taking them just for distribution requirements, etc), 100 level classes for me typically had the most structured work, and a lot of it. I feel like a lot of people think of intro classes as blow off courses- they really shouldn't be. You're gonna have a hella hard time in Botany, which was a 200 level at my school if you don't pay attention in Bio101, where photosynthesis is first explained.

[Kitten]

My question is how can the Duggars even pass this test? When did they read anything besides Gothard/ATI approved stories or the Bible?

Maybe that's why CollegeMinus is so popular with the fundies - it allows them to prepare for CLEP Lit exams without actually reading the ebil literature that the questions come from! I guess it's like using old SAT exams for practice - if you do enough of them, you'll see enough of the same questions/answers reused in the current exam to get a decent score. :lol:

Can you imagine the Duggars actually READING Emily Dickinson? or Thoreau? or, gasp, Shakespeare? Their minds would explode...

[VodouDoll]

I always had a ton of work in my intro classes too. Lots of reading, and not just textbooks, but lots of deep background stuff. Tons of research and writing, weekly discussion sections of 10-15 students led and graded by graduate students where we all had to come prepared to talk about that week's topics, lectures to expand on the material, regular visits to office hours to talk about the subject, study groups where we'd talk about the course's issues during evenings and weekends, etc. I've never had a big lecture where the professor punked out on exams, papers, and assignments because s/he didn't want to do the grading. They always had graduate students to do the grading for them, so the courses never stinted on expectations. I found some classes easier than others, sure, but even in classes where the lectures were large, the standards for our work were still high.

[SamuraiKatz]

I just can't bring myself to snark on Josiah. There is something about him that makes me want to rescue him, re educate him and set him free.

[marmalade]

To be fair, though, these tests are only designed to get credit for the basic 101 classes, right? They're still too easy, but now that I think about it, all of the 101/102 classes I've taken were so easy I could pass them in my sleep. One class in particular, I sat in the back working on other stuff the whole time, didn't read the book, didn't study for the test, and still got a 99%. I don't think I've ever had to write a paper for a 100-level class. It's not really until you get into upper-division that you start getting deep into analyzing and whatnot (case in point: three of my four classes this semester don't even have finals, we have to write papers instead).

No offense to your university, but man, they're letting you off easy. EVERYONE needs to know how to write an analytical paper if they're going to make it through college with anything higher than a C average. Our R1A/RB courses require about 7 novels or plays (poetry is offered in 1B since it's required for English majors) and 2 or 3 6-8 page papers, as well as an ID/analysis final. This course - or its equivalent AP or CC class - is required for all students to graduate.

I'm glad it got it done in community college; the class is every bit as demanding as an upper division English course (as an English major, I'm intimately acquainted with the major's requirements and demands...some courses are actually EASIER than R1A), including the my Major seminar course. Yeah, I have to knock out a 25 page paper by the 16th, but one presentation and two VERY short papers - I wrote one in about an hour - were the only other requirements. I pretty much sat there all semester and let other people talk since I can't verbalize coherently to save my life. On a scale between 1 (fundies) and 10 (any great orator), I'm a 3 on a good day. :oops:

The only reason those kids have GEDs is that the material is about the equivalent of freshman level coursework. That's because most of the states that require HS exit-exams begin testing in the beginning of a student's sophomore year. My cousins who were required to take them said they could have shown up drunk and passed them; they are that easy.

[muffynbear]

I think the CollegeMinus-! folks have blocked any further comments from showing. I posted additional comments on that article that are not showing and my FB alerted me that other people have commented on my post, yet when I click on the link there is nothing there. Damage control from the folks at CollegeMinus-? :think:

[annalena]

Well, if I were their marketing director, I sure would try to control damage...

[emmiedahl]

I just left a comment and it looks like it went through.

[annalena]

Looks like it did, just weird that the posts are not in order timewise.

[muffynbear]

I just left a comment and it looks like it went through.

Emmiedahl,

Can you read the comment that where I posted:

"David Cohen

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not buying what you're selling. The Duggars are just trying to silence their critics because they will NEVER allow their children to attend a "real" school. Hell will freeze over before a Duggar child will ever step foot into a "heathen" classroom. Besides, how much are the Duggars being paid to endorse this shit?"

and can you read this comment on that site?:

"For starters kids at any High School public or private can take AP courses in school and get real college credit, for free, as long as they do well on the AP exam. They can also, for less than the cost of CollegePlus take credits at most Community Colleges... some universities are also offering pre-college courses rather cheaply.

Mr. Cohen, have you converted to Gothardism? what a shame when you come from a legitimate religion with a beautiful tradition... I'll make sure to say a prayer for you in shul, what accredited mainstream Universities will take CP credits? Truthfully. And how many of these credits will they take? I'm not talking about the unaccredited Bible thumper colleges that offer flimsy theology or nursing assistant courses only. I'm referring to institutions of learning that offer a variety of disciplines and which can get a student a real job with earning potential and benefits."

[emmiedahl]

No, I could not see those. Damn, they are randomly editing then because what I said was pretty harsh. Maybe they have not caught mine yet.

[Maul the Koala]

No offense to your university, but man, they're letting you off easy. EVERYONE needs to know how to write an analytical paper if they're going to make it through college with anything higher than a C average. Our R1A/RB courses require about 7 novels or plays (poetry is offered in 1B since it's required for English majors) and 2 or 3 6-8 page papers, as well as an ID/analysis final. This course - or its equivalent AP or CC class - is required for all students to graduate.

I'm not surprised at O Latin's experience. I remember doing my first year of Science and they were wishy-washy on how to actually write a paper. Everything was multiple choice or short answer in first year as it was. It wasn't until a few years later when upper level Science profs were grading papers/exams with people not being able to actually show they synthesized the information in writing that things started to change. Now you can argue to death that a Science major doesn't need to take classes on Shakespeare isn't going to be helpful for a Science major but people were getting through degrees without knowing how to write anything analytical. Sure maybe not Shakespeare but there were other avenues to learn critical writing and analytical skills.