Botkinettes' Book Interview/It's Not Complicated MERGED

[tehgoobster]

Good review, Athena! I'm curious to read this book, but I think I'll wait to buy it secondhand.

[finleeport]

For some reason, they sound like internalized misogynists, meaning they are sexist to their own gender.

Its a good review, but somethings seriously wrong with these women. Calvinism has to be the most heretical sect of all. If I was back in the time of John Calvin, I would kick him in the nuts.

[emmiedahl]

I do kinda want to know what aesthetic asceticism is, though.

I think it means not being pretty. Some fundies make their daughters wear out-dated crap and go without hairstyling, makeup, etc.

[finleeport]

Have the Botkins ever been challenged, insulted, made to look foolish?

[finleeport]

Have the sisters ever been challenged and made fools of themselves yet?

[Boogalou]

They claim that a lot of girls are bored and discontented waiting for husbands; however, if girls are bored and discontented in their natal families then they will probably be bored and discontented in their new family with their husband.

#1 WOMEN

#2 I think that this is a good point, but probably not in the way they intended it to be. I think that if you don't enjoy being a SAHD then maybe you should not become a SAHM but go out in the world and find your passion so you won't be miserable for the rest of your life. I am guessing that they were thinking something different though.

[tehgoobster]

Have the sisters ever been challenged and made fools of themselves yet?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, finleeport. So Much More was pretty controversial, and it was criticized by many people (including their fellow Christians), so I'm pretty sure that their views have been challenged.

[Deleted12]

#1 WOMEN

#2 I think that this is a good point, but probably not in the way they intended it to be. I think that if you don't enjoy being a SAHD then maybe you should not become a SAHM but go out in the world and find your passion so you won't be miserable for the rest of your life. I am guessing that they were thinking something different though.

They basically think that you should find your passion wherever you're at in life, but not if it means going out from under your authority.

[JuJuBee]

I don't really get the stuff against teasing--unless they're talking about being really mean about it. My father, boyfriend, male friends I've had in the past, etc. all kind of communicate and show affection using light teasing. It's fun and sets a relaxed atmosphere where people don't feel a lot of pressure. Without it, I think relationships would be kind of dull. So...wth?

[Deleted12]

In response to a follow-up question, they think that we should love all young men as brothers in Christ, but be careful that our affection isn't jealous and has everyone's best interests in mind. Possessive love and lust are exclusively for marriage.

[Deleted12]

I don't really get the stuff against teasing--unless they're talking about being really mean about it. My father, boyfriend, male friends I've had in the past, etc. all kind of communicate and show affection using light teasing. It's fun and sets a relaxed atmosphere where people don't feel a lot of pressure. Without it, I think relationships would be kind of dull. So...wth?

They mean being mean, making sarcastic comments, or doing other things that encourage men to view women with suspicion.

[finleeport]

I'm not sure what you mean by that, finleeport. So Much More was pretty controversial, and it was criticized by many people (including their fellow Christians), so I'm pretty sure that their views have been challenged.

I meant have the Stepford Botkinettes ever looked foolish or embarrassed when criticized or questioned with things that sound humiliating or embarrassing to them.

my example, I would ask them 'Do you believe that women have no souls?" how would they feel if I asked them that.

[Deleted12]

I think it means not being pretty. Some fundies make their daughters wear out-dated crap and go without hairstyling, makeup, etc.

They believe that we should make every effort to look our best. They say that some women can project a flirtatious attitude with no makeup and a frumpy dress on, while other women can be modest while wearing makeup and pretty clothes. Our appearance communicates our attitudes towards God, our families, and ourselves.

[finleeport]

These Botkin-bots, don't even sound human, they're hollow shells of what humanity is left behind.

[marmalade]

Mod merge, please?

[Boogalou]

They basically think that you should find your passion wherever you're at in life, but not if it means going out from under your authority.

That is what I was thinking. Oh dear. So even if you hate being a SAHD you hove to go get married and have teh baybeez and just learn to be happy. Good plan.

[marmalade]

How would Anna Sophia and Elizabeth even have a clue what Jane Austen writes? And the Twilight books? NO way.

Well, see, this is most probably your fault. Did you ever dare to initiate conversations with him? Did you possibly talk about something that interested YOU? Did you make sure that all discussions with him were focused only on theology? Or perhaps you expressed an actual thought or opinion in his presence? Had you been a proper sister, you could have prevented this. You need to go read all the Moody books as penance, and so you can learn correct brother-sister relationship skills.

Yes, I see I was derelict in my duty. Instead of demanding that he stop using my mascara, I should have instead spouted biblical teachings about men in dresses. Oh wait....

[tehgoobster]

I meant have the Stepford Botkinettes ever looked foolish or embarrassed when criticized or questioned with things that sound humiliating or embarrassing to them.

my example, I would ask them 'Do you believe that women have no souls?" how would they feel if I asked them that.

Well, to be fair, I don't think that they believe that women have no souls, so if you were to ask them that, they'd probably just tell you that they don't believe that.

On Karen Campbell's True Womanhood blog, someone wrote about her experience seeing them at a homeschool conference. Their speech was pretty controversial, and quite a few people actually walked out during the middle of it. The woman said that the Botkinette speaking at the time was sort of shaken by that and lost her place for a second or two. But apart from that, I've never read or heard anything about them being embarrassed and such.

[Linnea]

When talking to boys, a girl should try to come off as smart and educated but not as a know-it-all. Acting dumb and talking like a valley girl isn't going to make boys like you, and if you only talk about yourself, then boys will think that you don't know about anything else.

However, looking dumb/like a valley girl on a book cover is apparently just fine.

[zcccrv]

Thank you for the review!

Those two sound like clever cookies to me. But what they remind me of are my niece and nephew (7 and 10 y old) who both started playing instruments and have really taken to it remarkably well, with motivation to do good and make people proud. But they certainly don't play because of the overwhelming love of music. I imagine it must be nice and comfortable to be encouraged for success inside strictly confined boundaries. You get to be clever and accomplished while at the same time being sheltered from the world. Perfect for kids, sucky for adults.

[Aurora]

They believe that we should make every effort to look our best. They say that some women can project a flirtatious attitude with no makeup and a frumpy dress on, while other women can be modest while wearing makeup and pretty clothes. Our appearance communicates our attitudes towards God, our families, and ourselves.

OK... yet KS says this phrase as if it's a known "ism"? I haven't heard of it before, and googled it without getting any results.

Emmiedahl, your explanation makes sense to me... something in the line of distinguishing yourself from the world.

[tehgoobster]

Next time I think about posting a thread, remind me not to bother.

:(

[finleeport]

sorry. nothing to say.

[finleeport]

You know, most of the times I really want to choke these girls. But sometimes I really feel pity for them.

Don't you ever too?

[Boltingmadonna]

Wow, Marian, thx for amazing transcription job.

KS: Bloviates about his wonderful relationship with his older sister...

Love it! Bloviate--one of my favorite words. Though not one of my favorite things.

finleeport said:

a conversation between two internally misogynistic bimbos and a psychopathic pastor who believes that even criminal children deserve the death penalty

The perfect summary of this simmering kettle of stupid.

Sometimes even when the words aren't completely wrong, the attitude is such that it pisses me the hell off. Like this:

God created beauty, it's not inherently evil.

Yeah, duh! Of course beauty is not evil, you douchebag. Like I needed you to wisely inform me of that--otherwise I would have been so timorously hesitant to enjoy beauty lest it be ungodly. Oh, cover my eyes, I have looked upon Sean Bean with pleasure and I am now damned for all eternity . . . .