Letting go of fundy ideas/upbringing

[luckylibrarian]

Angri-la, I hope that our lurking fundies read your story and feel empowered. You're truly amazing. Ladybug is lucky to have you both.

AD, a lot of people have given you good advice on how to overcome the financial and parental obstacles in your life. What no one here can do is erase the cycle of negative thoughts in your head. You need a trained professional to help you through that process face to face. I think FJ is a good place to make you laugh and get some support, but no one here can give you the extensive support that you'd get from a mental health professional.

I hope that you find someone - either your college counselor or someone else - to help you work through the process of creating an independent life. I'm really rooting for you.

[Rosa]

The thing about those negative voices is, your parents put those there, like a leash, a chain, to prevent you from leaving, or growing, or achieving. Stopping the thoughts, or pushing through them, is like cutting the chain.

I used to work with a group whose logo was a big long-handled chain cutter. There are a lot of them in the world - thoughts, money, helping organizations, individuals, stories like Angri-la's. You don't have to have a set of answers for everything, fundy-style. You don't have to reformulate all of your beliefs at once. You just have to have freedom on your mind, which is enough to tell you to cut the chain, link by link, as you identify them weighing on you.

[NurseNell]

Angri-la, you are my hero as well, after that story. Wow. :shock:

Agree. Angri-La, your story reminds me of the song I Am Woman by Helen Reddy. You are a survivor.

[annalena]

Anno, sounds like you're making great progress.

On another note, you fellow women do not realize your cycle? :shock:

I've only discovered it a couple of years ago, but I am DEFINITELY more interested in sex those days when I can reproduce. Obviously, I don't know when these days are, but I know when I am more interested and it very well matches my menstrual cycle.

We're animals, after all.

There was an interesting documentary a couple of years ago that tested exactly this phenomenon. I forgot what it was called. They monitored the tips that (female) strippers got for a certain time period and on the days that they could reproduce. In average, tips were double as high on those days.

[JesusFightClub]

Angri-la does, in fact, rock. One of my favourite posters here and an inspiration. I love her Ladybug stories too.

AD, you are getting there, don't worry. Keep reminding yourself "slow, sure steps". I think FJists are pushing you hard on issues to make sure you don't fall back in the trap. Really easy to fall back into bad patterns, I've done it too many times to count and that's without a fundy upbringing. An annoying tshirt slogan over here is "Keep calm and carry on" but this is a good advice for you.

[luckylibrarian]

On another note, you fellow women do not realize your cycle? :shock:

I've only discovered it a couple of years ago, but I am DEFINITELY more interested in sex those days when I can reproduce.

Good for you, but not everyone works like a clock.

[Boltingmadonna]

I hesitate to share this because it's personal and I feel it doesn't reflect well on me. But it's the most helpful thing I can tell you, Anno Domini: the hardest thing I've ever had to overcome is the message I was given that "you are not good enough and never will be." I am SIXTY--yes, the big six-oh--and I am only now digging out the roots of this horrible poison plant that was forcibly grafted into my mind.

I wonder if this is the reason why you continue to hesitate, to move so slowly, to think and overthink everything you do, to fail to notice the wrongs that lie right before your eyes. Do you doubt yourself? Do you fear your own power? Based on my own experience, I think maybe you do. A fundie upbringing teaches women that they are nothing--only good insofar as they are obedient instruments of a master's will, whether that master be God or one of his designated servants. Any time you fight back, strike out on your own, ask questions, or say NO, the voices in your mind will panic. They'll say anything to stop you. They'll say you are selfish, evil, that you're just going to hurt people, do it wrong, make a mistake, deserve punishment. They'll tell you you're going to hell--or maybe just that you are and always will be stupid and unloveable.

Some people are strong enough to fight off this invisible army of critics on their own, but most of us need the reality check of a real live voice who is on our side. I strongly recommend you talk about your self-image with your therapist, and if she doesn't seem able to pursue the religious guilt involved, tell her you need someone who is competent in this area. Be brutally honest with her about the circumstances you live in, and don't keep apologizing for your parents as you have here. It may be that she has backed off in the past because she sensed you weren't ready go deeper. But if she's going to help you, you'll have to be clear about how your parents have tried to enslave your mind.

[clibbyjo]

Good for you, but not everyone works like a clock.

Yeah,mine is completely different every month.Sometimes late, sometimes early,etc.... You never know ... :snooty:

[Austin]

Anno, sounds like you're making great progress.

On another note, you fellow women do not realize your cycle? :shock:

I've only discovered it a couple of years ago, but I am DEFINITELY more interested in sex those days when I can reproduce. Obviously, I don't know when these days are, but I know when I am more interested and it very well matches my menstrual cycle.

We're animals, after all.

There was an interesting documentary a couple of years ago that tested exactly this phenomenon. I forgot what it was called. They monitored the tips that (female) strippers got for a certain time period and on the days that they could reproduce. In average, tips were double as high on those days.

Well, that's very interesting, annalena, but not everyone experiences it the same. Yes, I am very aware of my cycle, having been an infertility patient for some years and charting the bejesus out of it for most of that time. I never felt more interested in physical intimacy then than at any other time. Some of my friends have mentioned the same thing.

I'm not discounting your experience, but would ask that you extend the same courtesy to others. I'm sure there is a wide array of normal experiences.

[Angri-la]

I want to thank everyone for their kind words. You all know I have much love for the Free Jingers; you are some of my favorite people, and in my version of heaven, you will find me in a corner VIP booth with Bette Davis and Dorothy Parker- come find us- we'll buy you a drink!

I posted a CliffNotes version of my tale because I see so much of myself in many of the young women we post about on this board, and who post on this board (AD). I made it sound easy, maybe, but it wasn't. I thought it was ALL my fault. I hated my body and God for betraying and forsaking me. I really did. I really believed I did something wrong, but when I looked back on my life, it had been spent doing Good Works, reading the Bible, etc. I hadn't kissed anyone but my husband! I listened and catered to my father and family! Whyyyyyy? Call the waaaahmbulance! Some brilliant woman here said it really well a few weeks ago: "I did not get the life I ordered!"--some awesome FJr. Did any of us? I am trying to say, in a ton of words: Look, I have been there too. It sucks, but only YOU are going to get YOU out of it.

To be honest, I didn't even realize how f'd up my life was until I was older, as I was in survival mode (Helen Reddy and Gloria Gaynor theme songs, please, RAWR!). I didn't even realize that I, too, was a Victim of The Patriarchy. I was sitting reading about some fundie girl's SAHD blog, and I realized: she is saying exactly what I used to say to the world about Jesus, my father, and my future husband (the holy trinity of fundie!). I realized: I am fascinated by fundies, because if I were half a generation younger, I could have been one of the married off frumper queens, birthin' babies until my uterus fell in on itself, except I wouldn't have been, for obvious reasons.

As far as the menses go? I have always felt like it was a cruel joke that I cannot conceive, but I still have to bleed every month. (My MIL told me it was because I had "too much of Eve" in me, whatever that means)

I don't find myself humping my husband's leg when my body "should" be fertile. I do still ovulate like any other woman, and, nope. Personally, it is after it is over that he has to lock up his trousers!

edited for color!

[Lainey]

I want to have sex the most DURING my period, when supposedly I'm not ovulating. Unless I somehow manage to ovulate during my period...I suppose it's possible.

[emmiedahl]

So, those of you who are claiming humans have heat cycles, does your husband have no interest in sex except when you are ovulating? Are you personally interested in sex when you are not ovulating?

Humans do *not* have heat cycles. Women have hormonal cycles that can converge to create more desire at certain points in the month, but this is not the sae as a heat cycle seen in other mammals. Humans *do* want sex (generally) even when we are not capable of reproducing. That is one thing that distinguishes us from the majority of animal life. If you don't believe in God, then you would say that this is because it increases the partner bond and thus ensures that our mates hang around long enough to raise the babies. If you believe in God, then you would say that it is because God intended us to have a lot of recreational sex and also some procreative sex. Or, in my case, you believe both.

[ems]

Also, therapy can be very, very helpful. Not because your issues are so huge or you're crazy, but because you need to re-program your mind in some ways.

This.

[vicka]

My family has been fundy for a long time and I went right along with it, but this year I have stopped being quite so fundy. Letting go of some things I used to believe in and reexamining others, trying to let go of things.

An example: Though I've been sure for a while now that I'd be a terrible mother, I was taught that any birth control was against God, that wives who used it were 'selfish' to put their own lives/desires ahead of a potential child, etc. Taught that selfish birth control was the reason why Europe is dying (not enough women having children, leads to not enough of a younger generation, etc). I'm not sure I believe that zero birth control is morally obligatory but I'm still having guilt over not wanting to be a mother. Those voices tell me that selfish people like me are why Europe is dying.

How does one let go of things like that?

don't force yourself to decide one way or another. just open your mind to learning about new ideas, meet as many people who are new and different from you as possible. read a lot, read about things you disagree with. watch scientific television shows. try to travel, see the world, even if it means going to a local natural history museum. don't make any decisions. life, especially at your age should be about exploring who you are. decisions such as "i don't want to have kids" or "i do" are way too early to be made. explore the world, explore yourself. don't feel forced to make any choices. the choices are yours to make, trust yourself to make the right choices when the time comes.

learn to learn, and everything else will come.

i've been following your thread although i haven't commented. I also come from a very unusual household (mine was abusive). I have learned that you can take yourself out of the environment and overcome your past, but only if you always keep an open mind.

[ems]

I hesitate to share this because it's personal and I feel it doesn't reflect well on me. But it's the most helpful thing I can tell you, Anno Domini: the hardest thing I've ever had to overcome is the message I was given that "you are not good enough and never will be." I am SIXTY--yes, the big six-oh--and I am only now digging out the roots of this horrible poison plant that was forcibly grafted into my mind.

I wonder if this is the reason why you continue to hesitate, to move so slowly, to think and overthink everything you do, to fail to notice the wrongs that lie right before your eyes. Do you doubt yourself? Do you fear your own power? Based on my own experience, I think maybe you do. A fundie upbringing teaches women that they are nothing--only good insofar as they are obedient instruments of a master's will, whether that master be God or one of his designated servants. Any time you fight back, strike out on your own, ask questions, or say NO, the voices in your mind will panic. They'll say anything to stop you. They'll say you are selfish, evil, that you're just going to hurt people, do it wrong, make a mistake, deserve punishment. They'll tell you you're going to hell--or maybe just that you are and always will be stupid and unloveable.

Some people are strong enough to fight off this invisible army of critics on their own, but most of us need the reality check of a real live voice who is on our side. I strongly recommend you talk about your self-image with your therapist, and if she doesn't seem able to pursue the religious guilt involved, tell her you need someone who is competent in this area. Be brutally honest with her about the circumstances you live in, and don't keep apologizing for your parents as you have here. It may be that she has backed off in the past because she sensed you weren't ready go deeper. But if she's going to help you, you'll have to be clear about how your parents have tried to enslave your mind.

And this. Haven't had the fundie unbringing, but I know how debilitating self-doubt/low self-image is. Therapy is very beneficial, but as others have said, AD, I would strongly suggest you find a counselor who will understand the religious dysfunction you were raised in.

[clibbyjo]

Angri-la, I hope that our lurking fundies read your story and feel empowered. You're truly amazing. Ladybug is lucky to have you both.

AD, a lot of people have given you good advice on how to overcome the financial and parental obstacles in your life. What no one here can do is erase the cycle of negative thoughts in your head. You need a trained professional to help you through that process face to face. I think FJ is a good place to make you laugh and get some support, but no one here can give you the extensive support that you'd get from a mental health professional.

I hope that you find someone - either your college counselor or someone else - to help you work through the process of creating an independent life. I'm really rooting for you.

+1

And I am so happy Angri-la has Ladybug. :dance:

[Boltingmadonna]

vicka wrote:

don't force yourself to decide one way or another. just open your mind

Yeah, this! One of the things fundie-dom is good at is imposing a black and white mindset, where you must decide right now, and you must be right. Actually, you can take your time, make mistakes, and even (gasp) change your mind and do something completely different!

[Boltingmadonna]

P.S. I want to join in the general consensus of being awed by Angri-la's courage and determination. What a great story to remember! Women like you give me hope. :clap:

[Deesire]

You go, AD! Everyone's pace is different and it sounds like you have come a long way recently. Just keep at it. Good for you!

[celestial]

P.S. I want to join in the general consensus of being awed by Angri-la's courage and determination. What a great story to remember! Women like you give me hope. :clap:

Thanks so much for sharing that, Angri-La. I hope it was read by many a SAHD lurker!

AD, thought I haven't posted yet, I've been following your story and I'll be thinking of you. You've got a tough road ahead of you, and ultimately there's no one who can get you through it but you. You've made some steps in the right direction already, so celebrate that instead of listening to that little defeatist voice inside your head. And then take a few more steps. You can do it! No one can stop you! Just don't give up.

[Constance Vigilance]

Listen, I am from Europe. We are totally fine. It is not your job to repopulate white America at the expense of your happiness. Some people aren't meant to be/called to be/interested in being mothers, and that is TOTALLY FINE.

You've been taught that all women should have the same interests, goals and purpose in life. You are about to discover how different we all (including yourself) can be. You will find yourself contradicting yourself. That is absolutely okay :). You have your counsellor -- work this through with her. You're going to be grand.

[AnnoDomini]

Good to hear! As for America, my parents haven't said anything about America needing to be repopulated, and they wouldn't care what skin color it was either. But it's true they did teach that--varied interests or not--women who were called to be married should not use any form of birth control and those who did were rebelling against God. But I can no longer believe such a blanket statement.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's a dogwhistle, pimpom. The people who say it generally mean that *white* Europe is dying...

I was wondering about that. There are plenty of places in the world with high birth rates that aren't exactly thriving. Why not mention them?

[emmiedahl]

It won't be the first time in history that Europe has had an ethnic transition, with some tribes moving and some becoming more or less dominant. It's not the death of Europe, just a death of the blond-haired, blue-eyed stereotype that Americans have about the continent.

[Constance Vigilance]

It won't be the first time in history that Europe has had an ethnic transition, with some tribes moving and some becoming more or less dominant. It's not the death of Europe, just a death of the blond-haired, blue-eyed stereotype that Americans have about the continent.

And in fairness, there were precious few of those to begin with. The majority of people in all the countries outside Scandanavia (as far as I know) are darker. But with the all-important white skin of course.