Letting go of fundy ideas/upbringing

[AnnoDomini]

My family has been fundy for a long time and I went right along with it, but this year I have stopped being quite so fundy. Letting go of some things I used to believe in and reexamining others, trying to let go of things.

An example: Though I've been sure for a while now that I'd be a terrible mother, I was taught that any birth control was against God, that wives who used it were 'selfish' to put their own lives/desires ahead of a potential child, etc. Taught that selfish birth control was the reason why Europe is dying (not enough women having children, leads to not enough of a younger generation, etc). I'm not sure I believe that zero birth control is morally obligatory but I'm still having guilt over not wanting to be a mother. Those voices tell me that selfish people like me are why Europe is dying.

How does one let go of things like that?

[StarrieEyedKat]

Get out of your house and live your life. By staying there, you're still immersed in the way you were raised and it's going to make it a lot harder to fight against that. The more people you meet and experiences you have, the more you'll learn about the world and become your own person.

[Wolfie]

My family has been fundy for a long time and I went right along with it, but this year I have stopped being quite so fundy. Letting go of some things I used to believe in and reexamining others, trying to let go of things.

An example: Though I've been sure for a while now that I'd be a terrible mother, I was taught that any birth control was against God, that wives who used it were 'selfish' to put their own lives/desires ahead of a potential child, etc. Taught that selfish birth control was the reason why Europe is dying (not enough women having children, leads to not enough of a younger generation, etc). I'm not sure I believe that zero birth control is morally obligatory but I'm still having guilt over not wanting to be a mother. Those voices tell me that selfish people like me are why Europe is dying.

How does one let go of things like that?

I think if you look at the world as a whole. There always will be immigration, and countries with too many people will always have people looking for jobs who are willing to move to where those jobs are located. Europe won't "die" it just may look a little different. No problem with that, as nothing looks just like it did 200 years ago anyway.

Not to mention- would it be fair to a child to be born to parents who didn't really want them?

[AnnoDomini]

If I have a child, I want to want it with all my heart.

The BC thing was something I particularly struggled with, since I was taught that there must be no romantical involvement before one is ready for marriage, and there must be no marriage before one is ready to be a mother, since birth control was not allowed.

[tinuviel]

ITA with StarrieEyedKat. In the meantime, it might be helpful to think about different ways being raised fundie has affected you, and how you feel about these different effects. In my case, being raised fundy made me feel really guilty if I wasn't working ALL the time and/or serving everyone else all the time. I realized that I don't have to work/serve all the time, and that it's okay to relax and let people help you out sometimes. Once I realized this, I learned to stop some of my guilty or negative feelings when they started. For instance, I would start to get uncomfortable and anxious while watching my dad work on some task I couldn't help with at all. Then I'd bring myself down to a calmer level with little mental reminders: "I can't help with this task, and that's okay. I don't have to do everything. Dad's frustration with work isn't my problem."

Once I recognized my normal emotional and behavioral patterns, I felt a lot more empowered to change them as I saw fit. Talking with someone you trust is a good way to figure out your own patterns, but reading at places like FJ can help if no one is immediately available IRL. If you like writing, keeping a journal can be quite useful.

Good luck with everything! It sounds like you're learning a lot about yourself and really trying to take control of your own life. :-)

[Austin]

Clearly, the number of children, if any, a woman has is a very personal decision. But among the very worst reasons to bring children into the world is some perceived cultural issue on a different continent, IMO. It's news to me that "Europe is dying" so I don't know enough to discuss that, but I don't think it should matter at all in your childbearing decisions.

You have so much to learn and to experience. Move out, go to school, open your heart and mind to the world (not "the world" of your parents and Harold Camping, but the actual world) and find your path.

[AnnoDomini]

Huh, yeah, no more of Harold Camping's world and maybe not my parents.

[NurseNell]

Get out of your house and live your life. By staying there, you're still immersed in the way you were raised and it's going to make it a lot harder to fight against that. The more people you meet and experiences you have, the more you'll learn about the world and become your own person.

This.

[liltwinstar]

My bit of advice, aside from get the heck out of your parents' house as soon as you can?

Just realize that you don't have to have all the answers right now. You're sill pretty young - 24ish, right? So if you don't want to be a mom right now, that's ok. If at 30 you decide you want to, that's fine. If you never want to be a mom, that's ok too. If you have one kid and decide that's enough, that's great as well. Point is, the world is not black and white the way our parents taught us. You don't have to have it all figured out right now. You have time to think and plan and change your mind if you want to.

I think that was the hardest thing for me - growing up fundie, you think your life will follow a certain path. And then you grow up and your life doesn't look anything like what you were told it would be. You have to make decisions - sometimes scary ones - and figure out what is best for *you*

It's a hard road, sometimes, but I call tell you it's totally worth it - and life is indescribably more beautiful on the outside of fundie-dom than I ever could have imagined. Even the icky stuff (like the $2700 car repair bill we found out about today - ouch!!!) is just...not as bad. I know I sound Pollyanna ish, but when you're making your own decisions and you're confident about those decisions, everything just kind of...falls into place, you know?

[liltwinstar]

Couple other thoughts regarding birth control, specifically:

- The anti-birth control crowd says that babies are a blessing and they're the only blessing that we will deny ourselves. However, we don't eat all the food that we want in one sitting, right? People don't tell you to wait and wait to eat, because one you eat, you have to consume everything. No, we regulate our food consumption to best suit our lives. Why would our fertility be any different?

-If you still believe in God, why would God give us the knowledge/wisdom to control our fertility cycles, if He didn't want us to use that knowledge to the best of our ability? There's the parable in the Gospels of the man with the talents - we're supposed to use our talents the best we can, not just bury them in the ground. I see ignoring fertility/biology as burying our gifts in the ground, saying that we don't need that knowledge and that we can act recklessly and in ignorance. We are not, in fact, ignorant. We have the ability to manage our fertility in a lot of different ways, so why should we ignore all of that and pretend that we don't have that knowledge?

- Finally, in the anti-BC movement, there is a lot of talk about being "open" to the potential of life. Why? The babies that are not around don't actually exist yet. Why should your decisions hinge on a thing that doesn't even exist and that might never exist?? Seems to me we should focus on our lives *today* and our relationships *today*, not a hypothetical future filled with hypothetical beings.

[browncoatslytherin]

i agree, get out! and being in a place like fj is good, too, a place where diverse people can discuss ideas and bring different opinions to the table. i've discovered that the more i've "gotten out", the more i'm discovering about life in general, and it's so amazing! maybe a little scary at times, but that's ok, that's a part of the process.

and don't expect things to just change overnight, either. change takes time, so don't stress over it! just take it as you go, one step at a time.

good luck, dear. :)

[Wolfie]

Couple other thoughts regarding birth control, specifically:

- The anti-birth control crowd says that babies are a blessing and they're the only blessing that we will deny ourselves. However, we don't eat all the food that we want in one sitting, right? People don't tell you to wait and wait to eat, because one you eat, you have to consume everything. No, we regulate our food consumption to best suit our lives. Why would our fertility be any different?

-If you still believe in God, why would God give us the knowledge/wisdom to control our fertility cycles, if He didn't want us to use that knowledge to the best of our ability? There's the parable in the Gospels of the man with the talents - we're supposed to use our talents the best we can, not just bury them in the ground. I see ignoring fertility/biology as burying our gifts in the ground, saying that we don't need that knowledge and that we can act recklessly and in ignorance. We are not, in fact, ignorant. We have the ability to manage our fertility in a lot of different ways, so why should we ignore all of that and pretend that we don't have that knowledge?

- Finally, in the anti-BC movement, there is a lot of talk about being "open" to the potential of life. Why? The babies that are not around don't actually exist yet. Why should your decisions hinge on a thing that doesn't even exist and that might never exist?? Seems to me we should focus on our lives *today* and our relationships *today*, not a hypothetical future filled with hypothetical beings.

This

And if I can add one thing- if God is omnipotent, if he really wants a child to be here, he can overcome birth control.

[finleeport]

My family has been fundy for a long time and I went right along with it, but this year I have stopped being quite so fundy. Letting go of some things I used to believe in and reexamining others, trying to let go of things.

An example: Though I've been sure for a while now that I'd be a terrible mother, I was taught that any birth control was against God, that wives who used it were 'selfish' to put their own lives/desires ahead of a potential child, etc. Taught that selfish birth control was the reason why Europe is dying (not enough women having children, leads to not enough of a younger generation, etc). I'm not sure I believe that zero birth control is morally obligatory but I'm still having guilt over not wanting to be a mother. Those voices tell me that selfish people like me are why Europe is dying.

How does one let go of things like that?

I was in a situation like yours, my step grandma was so fanatical she wouldn't leave me alone with all her bible-thumping and pulling my arm a lot. I was relieved when she died, but her theology was still rubbed on me, and it took me several years rub it off. Sometimes at night, I could still hear her voice. But this is what i did to comfort myself;

I play in my head that my step-grams was like the wicked stepmother/aunt or a cruel schoolteacher (like Wackford Squeers from Dickens Nicholas Nickleby or A Little Princess's Miss Minchin) and I was secretly helped by fairies/Peter Pan/Aslan-like figures/good witches/magicians or heroic Robin Hood/Hercules/King Arthur-like heroes and they would stand by my side and talk back at step-granny, and in response she would be enraged and gather her furious friends to fight back, but my 'saviors' would scare the living daylights out of them with their magic/strength/skill and the old bat would run away in tears while screaming hysterically, tripping over her long skirts, falling into a puddle of mud or water, and never come back again.

I had fun playing those games in my head, I was a very imaginative child.

[fundyfunland]

Get out of your house and live your life. By staying there, you're still immersed in the way you were raised and it's going to make it a lot harder to fight against that. The more people you meet and experiences you have, the more you'll learn about the world and become your own person.

What starrieeyedkat said. I can only imagine how tough it's been for you, but really, moving out is the only way you will be able to experience a normal life, and live life the way YOU think is right.

I didn't grow up fundie, but we def had problems in my house. Our family was very enmeshed with a lot of emotional abuse. Believe me, the best thing I did was move out AND become financially independent from my parents. Sanity returned, and althouth I had arguments w/ my parents for a few years, b/c they still wanted to control me, being out of the house gave me enough distance to feel strong in standing my own ground. Eventually, they've accepted (more or less) the way I live, and many times are even quite supportive.

I know it's a scary thought to move out, and there are so many things you need to do to make it happen (finance-wise), but just DO IT! At least take the first step.....save up for a months rent (even if you have to work extra shifts), and get yourself your own place. I think I remember you saying you were taking some courses at college awhile ago? Do you keep in touch with any of your friends from there? You may be able to rent a place with a few of them, and reduce your costs.

Gotta make the first move. Everything else will fall into place after that :D

[AtroposHeart]

I have a friend who was formerly fundie and she said her friendship with me, an atheist,feminist, environmentalist,and GLBT activist, was the what helped her out of that fundie mindset.

She was raised to see people,especially women, like me as horrible people who lived miserable lives. After getting to know me, she realized that I wasn't bad and was just as human as she was.

My advice, make friendship with people with very different points of few.

As for birth control; watch this

[pimpom]

I'm desperately curious to learn how Europe is dying!

[JesusFightClub]

I'm desperately curious to learn how Europe is dying!

It's a dogwhistle, pimpom. The people who say it generally mean that *white* Europe is dying...

[polabear]

Keep in mind - you can't logic your way out of feelings. Feelings are beyond logic. However, you can identify why you are having a feeling, and accept it. I didn't grow up fundie, but I did grow up in a household where reading was frowned upon. (Yes, really.) I'd be punished by being grounded from books for a week. However, I LOVE to read. But, I'd have to do it furtively. I'd read walking my way home from school. I'd read in the back of my closet. I'd climb a tree and read.

I'm an adult now, and I can still feel guilty if I'm reading something while anyone else is around - especially if they are doing anything at all. It could be something I couldn't help with. It could be that I worked all day long. Doesn't matter - my gut still says "What are you doing? Don't read!" But, I can say "okay, how I grew up was weird, and there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing", and go back to my book.

[annalena]

You should want a child with all your heart. It's not fair to the child to have it due to some quota requirements.

You need to move out in order to get your own life. Also, therapy can be very, very helpful. Not because your issues are so huge or you're crazy, but because you need to re-program your mind in some ways.

Travelling also helps.

Getting an education is a must.

[AnnieC 305]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but....

If God wanted to be in control of our fertility why didn't He give us a heat cycle like every other mammal?

[AmyP]

Get a part time, or full time job, if you don't have one already. Put money aside so that you can get an education. Community college would be a good place to start. Also, you will need a car. Put money aside for that as well. Find a church of your own where you can evaluate your religious convictions on their merits, guided by someone other than your parents. Try out several churches, in fact. When you are able, move out.

Once you have those things in place, you will have plenty of time to worry about your responsibility to re-populate Europe. ;) Honestly, the birth control issue is irrelevant and the least of your concerns at this moment because, as far as I can tell from your posts, you are not married or in a relationship that would require you to make that decision at this time.

[Cerysbell]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but....

If God wanted to be in control of our fertility why didn't He give us a heat cycle like every other mammal?

I don't know if I'm entirely understanding your question properly, but my answer would be, well, he kind of did. In over a year of doing FAM, we came to the conclusion that we knew when I was ovulating, because that was when I felt most interested. It is the reason we stuck with FAM (ie used barrier methods when necessary) rather than going all the way to NFP and why DH went for the snip after our last baby.

[Cerysbell]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but....

If God wanted to be in control of our fertility why didn't He give us a heat cycle like every other mammal?

I don't know if I'm entirely understanding your question properly, but my answer would be, well, he kind of did. In over a year of doing FAM, we came to the conclusion that we knew when I was ovulating, because that was when I felt most interested. It is the reason we stuck with FAM (ie used barrier methods when necessary) rather than going all the way to NFP and why DH went for the snip after our last baby.

AD, you are right that a baby deserves to be wanted with all your heart and not just born because you've got married and that's the natural consequence. A natural progression of that belief is that the baby deserves your energy, attention and has rights of his/her own, to feel secure, to be fed and clothed appropriately. Your family hasn't really done that for you, I know, but I am confident that you can overcome that, if you ever want a baby. In the meantime, I support you as you search for those things for yourself. You deserve them, too.

[dawbs]

I do not intend to sound dismissive, AD...but I think that the cart is so far in front of the horse here, it's not reasonable.

Look, right now, you need to establish some independence and get to know you, yourself, as an individual not enmeshed with your family. That's a hard process that will take time.

In doing that, the hold fundy-dom will have on you will evolve and change significantly in the urgent areas of your life--your role as a person and as a woman and a human being will be evolving. Your ability to critically think will develop. Your ability to question things and say "I was raised this way, but I should question the health and normalcy of this' will develop into a second nature. All of that won't be overnight and it won't make you emotionally healthy immediately, but it will come with time--independent of dating and sex. But naturally, as it happens, dating and sex ideas will develop to.

That process is completely necessary BEFORE you even consider dating and create a life that's supposed to be built around and 'enmeshed' with someone else.

That 'dating' looks like it's a few years off for you--which makes sex and birth control at least that far off (and knowing that your upbringing may make sex a bit more...careful? 'high stakes?' -- I'm trying to find a word and failing--is something you take up with the guy in question at the time because *HE* has some say in sex in your relationship too) as something for you to really worry about.

[snarkbillie]

My family has been fundy for a long time and I went right along with it, but this year I have stopped being quite so fundy. Letting go of some things I used to believe in and reexamining others, trying to let go of things.

An example: Though I've been sure for a while now that I'd be a terrible mother, I was taught that any birth control was against God, that wives who used it were 'selfish' to put their own lives/desires ahead of a potential child, etc. Taught that selfish birth control was the reason why Europe is dying (not enough women having children, leads to not enough of a younger generation, etc). I'm not sure I believe that zero birth control is morally obligatory but I'm still having guilt over not wanting to be a mother. Those voices tell me that selfish people like me are why Europe is dying.

How does one let go of things like that?

People who don't want kids and still have them are what's ruining the world IMHO. I was born to a set of these. I'm really lucky that I'm alive at this point.