Maternal Love

[DinnerPlateDahlia]

Mythicwings, just wanted to say thank you for the hugs and support. I really appreciate it!

And I do totally agree with you that most in the pro-choice camp do see a wanted pregnancy as a "baby". In fact, this whole experience has strengthened my pro-choice views in many ways.

[contrary]

i skimmed all four pages, but i may have missed if this was discussed before...but to the original point of pearl-esque methods overriding maternal nurture instinct...

in these cases, i think the women have been brought up (brainwashed, trained, whatever) to put jesus and husband before self and children. Therefore, if jesus and husband want the children "trained up", that's what they do, because they as mothers, and the children, are less important than jesus and husband.

that's my take.

[Mythicwings]

Thanks, FJ people :) Austin, yeah I would LOVE to adopt, but my husband doesn't want to. And fostering - some in my family have, but honestly I don't think I'm the right person for that, dealing with tragic situations like one person here does, and then if it is ruled for the parents, sending the child back to that situation - yikes. I couldn't handle that, I KNOW it, but my aunt has adopted several of my cousins.

Yeah, thanks - and am working at getting over my meltdown!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Some friends and I started to talk the other day about women before birth control having to have these huge families, and how resentful a lot of them would have to be over it. There was this one autobiography by a woman who was one in...maybe 14 or something, around the turn of the 19th/20th century, and their mother was basically not there, she ran to tell her mother that her sister was threatening to jump off the roof, and I can't remember what the mother said, something non-committal in a bored voice, like, "tell her not now, wait till later" and the author thought this was hilarious. The kids end up raising themselves with a family that huge, even when the mom is involved. SO glad for birth control. It's just disturbing how many women nowadays willingly put themselves in such submissive positions, and pump out the kids, even those who probably hate it. I wonder if their girls like the Duggar girls, even know about birth control (beyond their parents saying that the pill caused a miscarriage...)?

[EmmieJ]

To me, the Brazilian examples of lack of maternalism is a sad example of our ability as living beings to adapt to almost any situation. In this case, the women involved have practically intolerable living conditions. They must work at whatever menial jobs they can find, simply to exist and provide the barest of livings for their family members. I'm sure none of them have access to any form of birth control. Another baby is just another mouth to feed, and probably wasn't wanted in the first place. Reminds me of that book, Angela's Ashes, and also overall the plight of Catholic women in Ireland until very recently. Baby, upon baby, upon baby. A woman gets numb after awhile, and it's self-preservation to turn off that maternal instinct in order to survive.

I did bond with my baby immediately. I will admit that for awhile, he was my whole world. It wasn't a conscious choice. But in his first few weeks, I really could have cared less about anything else besides him. He fascinated me and I felt an overwhelming love like I've never experienced before or since. I definitely have mama bear protective instincts still going strong to this day, 13 years later, but the intensity has definitely faded into a more natural, everyday sort of motherly love.

I cannot understand the fundie mentality of hitting your infant or toddler in order to obtain certain behaviors, like making them sit quietly on a blanket. I could no more have struck my son as an infant as jump off a cliff. When he began crawling, I kept a close eye on him and if he was headed somewhere I didn't want him to be, I just picked him up and re-directed him. I child proofed my home so he could crawl most places in safety. If he repeatedly reached for something he should not have, I told him firmly "no" and put it out of his reach. When he was in the 2's and 3's and having melt downs, I still didn't hit or spank him. He would get placed in his crib if he was really acting up, but more for his safety because he was flailing around. I did spank him on his diapered bottom a few times (such as when he slipped his hand from mine and almost ran into the street). But the look of shock on his face was too much to bear and I resolved to find other ways to discipline. When he would try to hit or bite me, I told him "no" and "ouch!" He learned fairly quickly that those were unwanted behaviors. Anyway - the long and short of it is, I don't understand how moms in the U.S., with our many advantages and privileges, can choose to hit their babies with rubber tubing, flexible rulers, wooden spoons, or anything else.

My daughter is leaving for a school camping trip in February for four days and I am seriously dreading it. Like counting down the days on the calendar and knots in my stomach dread. So no skankbiscuit, I don't think you are insane at all :)

I can totally relate! My son went for a week in the 6th grade and I was anxious as it approached, and missed him every day he was gone. I didn't let on, and he had a great time, so it was all good. But he has another week-long trip in June next year and I'm already envisioning scenarios where he gets separated from the group, or doesn't pay attention and steps into traffic -- all sorts of ridiculous things. Logically I know it will be fine, but emotionally, I am going to worry until he's back safely.

[Mythicwings]

I cannot understand the fundie mentality of hitting your infant or toddler in order to obtain certain behaviors, like making them sit quietly on a blanket.

That thing that Michelle Duggar posted on that forum years ago, before their show, about how she would blanket train by luring her babies off the blanket and then hitting them when they did what she was asking them to do - what mentality does it take to be able to do such a thing? If she looked really mean and evil, yeah, it would be easier to imagine, but she talks in that soft voice with the omnipresent smile, and it's just freaky to think she actually did do those things, and probably STILL does since she has the new ones. And does she do it with a smile, like Vyckie Garrison said she did I think it was her)? The whole thing sounds like something purposefully intended to produce insanity - so many obvious mixed messages, all ending in pain and betrayal. Like some of you said - the woman's feelings, even to the mother, are suppose to be repressed for the glory of god, so that way they can get past protecting their baby from themselves.