Who wants to do the Bible study based on Twilight?

[Terrie]

Ugh, Twilight. I read the first book, was not impressed, but read the second one because, hey, first time author, maybe she gets better? Hit Bella's catatonia of grief and was done. It's a terrible example for the target audience and Bella is the most bland, cardboard cutout of a character EVER.

As others have said, give me Hermione, Beka Cooper, or, a personal favorite, Tiffany Aching from Pratchett's YA Discworld books.

[buddingmedievalist]

FTL: Extended discussion of Mormon tropes in teh Twilight:

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html

Thank you! That was brilliant :)

[finleeport]

I can't believe you guys are actually talking about religion in Twilight. Good to be back. I missed you guys.

[atheistjd]

I had actually never heard of Tamora Pierce (!) until this thread, although winter break may be full of some reading now :)

But those of you who are fans of hers might enjoy this article, in which she discusses Twilight and heroines:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... ol/239861/

ET fix link.

Also, anyone have any recommendations for Tamora Pierce books? I have been desperate for some REALLY light reading for my semester break and these sound perfect!!

[plaidninja]

Hit Bella's catatonia of grief and was done. It's a terrible example for the target audience and Bella is the most bland, cardboard cutout of a character EVER.

http://theoatmeal.com/story/twilight

The guy who wrote this was mostly being funny, (successfully!) but I think his reasoning behind dubbing Bella "Pants" is sound. Take a young teen who has no grasp on what a healthy relationship is like beyond twoo wuv, who naturally finds the idea of being desirable enough to be fought over tempting, and give them a character flat enough that they can easily insert themselves into the fantasy.

Voila! (not to be confused with wallah) A universal Mary Sue. Very clever, if you ask me.

[atheistjd]

http://theoatmeal.com/story/twilight

The guy who wrote this was mostly being funny, (successfully!) but I think his reasoning behind dubbing Bella "Pants" is sound. Take a young teen who has no grasp on what a healthy relationship is like beyond twoo wuv, who naturally finds the idea of being desirable enough to be fought over tempting, and give them a character flat enough that they can easily insert themselves into the fantasy.

Voila! (not to be confused with wallah) A universal Mary Sue. Very clever, if you ask me.

I totally agree that the appeal and financial success of the series are totally due to this phenomenon. But what I find really sad is that, after reading a few interviews with the author, I think this was an unintentional side affect of her desire to BE Bella. Which is even more sad.

[Deleted12]

I had actually never heard of Tamora Pierce (!) until this thread, although winter break may be full of some reading now :)

But those of you who are fans of hers might enjoy this article, in which she discusses Twilight and heroines:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... ol/239861/

ET fix link.

Also, anyone have any recommendations for Tamora Pierce books? I have been desperate for some REALLY light reading for my semester break and these sound perfect!!

I started a thread over in QFOWD so that we could continue ripping on Twilight in this thread. :D

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079

[Turtle]

I had actually never heard of Tamora Pierce (!) until this thread, although winter break may be full of some reading now :)

But those of you who are fans of hers might enjoy this article, in which she discusses Twilight and heroines:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... ol/239861/

ET fix link.

Also, anyone have any recommendations for Tamora Pierce books? I have been desperate for some REALLY light reading for my semester break and these sound perfect!!

I liked pretty much everything she wrote, but I think the Alanna series is a good starting point. They are perfect light reading. I recommend checking out/buying two or three at a time, because you will read them fast!

I don't get the appeal of Twilight at all. If you want light reading, there are plenty of fabulous YA authors that don't send such horrible messages to young readers.

[atheistjd]

I liked pretty much everything she wrote, but I think the Alanna series is a good starting point. They are perfect light reading. I recommend checking out/buying two or three at a time, because you will read them fast!

I don't get the appeal of Twilight at all. If you want light reading, there are plenty of fabulous YA authors that don't send such horrible messages to young readers.

Thanks!

I agree wholeheartedly - I forget who was debating letting her 9yo read these upthread, but my personal opinion would be DON'T! There are so many other good books out there. I read the whole series after with the issues in mind, and then followed it up with Mark Reads Twilight (love!!!). I just would be wary of giving these books to anyone impressionable. If you do, though, perhaps make sure you discuss all of the issue with her as she reads, so she is aware of why being suicidal and bruised are not the signs of a healthy relationship?

[jenny_islander]

I would give permission but require the child first to read a deconstruction of the themes, or at least listen to you explain why the books are crap. Otherwise they acquire an aura of the forbidden.

Other better heroines: Menolly of Half Circle Hold, pretty much any female character Andre Norton ever wrote, pretty much any female character Lois McMaster Bujold ever wrote, and about half of the heroines of Georgette Heyer's Regency romances. (Even Heyer's less heroic female characters still feel more real than Bella--and they don't get rewarded for being clingy, whiny, drippy, passive little dweebs.)

[atheistjd]

I would give permission but require the child first to read a deconstruction of the themes, or at least listen to you explain why the books are crap. Otherwise they acquire an aura of the forbidden.

Other better heroines: Menolly of Half Circle Hold, pretty much any female character Andre Norton ever wrote, pretty much any female character Lois McMaster Bujold ever wrote, and about half of the heroines of Georgette Heyer's Regency romances. (Even Heyer's less heroic female characters still feel more real than Bella--and they don't get rewarded for being clingy, whiny, drippy, passive little dweebs.)

Agreed - I was thinking about if the choice was between giving the child a book to read or another book. If she is asking to read, for sure let her read it, but give her some context. I am 100% totally anti-censorship for children and do think they should be allowed to explore.

[alba]

Also, anyone have any recommendations for Tamora Pierce books? I have been desperate for some REALLY light reading for my semester break and these sound perfect!!

The Alanna (Song of the Lioness) and Keladry quartets are good, but I'd class them firmly in children's fiction, so if you're looking for something a little more mature, the Aly (Trickster) duet and Beka Cooper books are YA.

[plaidninja]

The Alanna (Song of the Lioness) and Keladry quartets are good, but I'd class them firmly in children's fiction, so if you're looking for something a little more mature, the Aly (Trickster) duet and Beka Cooper books are YA.

I liked the Circle of Magic books. There are two series of four books, one for each POV, ranging from age 11-15 or so, and then one additional book. They mature as the characters do, like Harry Potter does, though less extreme. The 'zomg they have amazing special powers' thing can get a bit heavy handed at times, but I enjoyed the development of the characters, and there are some interesting themes.

[alba]

I liked the Circle of Magic books. There are two series of four books, one for each POV, ranging from age 11-15 or so, and then one additional book. They mature as the characters do, like Harry Potter does, though less extreme. The 'zomg they have amazing special powers' thing can get a bit heavy handed at times, but I enjoyed the development of the characters, and there are some interesting themes.

I could never get into the Circle of Magic books. Perhaps I should try again.

[Hane]

Am I alone in thinking that Bella's eternity of being a Smeyers vampire is the most boring thing imaginable? I mean, who would want it?

[StarrieEyedKat]

Am I alone in thinking that Bella's eternity of being a Smeyers vampire is the most boring thing imaginable? I mean, who would want it?

I thought the same when I finished the series. Like...now what are they going to do forever? Admire each other's perfection, I suppose.

[Patsy]

Does she have to cut off ties with her parents and 'friends' (lol, like she cared about her friends) once she's a vampire? If so, wow, depressing.

[finleeport]

I could never understand Bella, from what I heard from the books and seen from the movies, she comes across as this self-righteous, egotistical, mawkish, stuttering, awkwardly twit-ish, klutzy, woeful, suicidal, disinterested hollow shell of a bimbo and a poor excuse for a woman.

I was even shocked when I learned that the author of this ill-born creature was a woman. How could a woman portray her own gender as weak, feeble and stupid with a brain damage?

[Deleted12]

I could never understand Bella, from what I heard from the books and seen from the movies, she comes across as this self-righteous, egotistical, mawkish, stuttering, awkwardly twit-ish, klutzy, woeful, suicidal, disinterested hollow shell of a bimbo and a poor excuse for a woman.

I was even shocked when I learned that the author of this ill-born creature was a woman. How could a woman portray her own gender as weak, feeble and stupid with a brain damage?

One word: Mormonism. :P

[BravaAmica]

Bumping this up to say there may have been some truth in people going to hospital during the birth scene in Twilight.

http://www.komonews.com/news/entertainm ... ypleasures

[galaxygirl]

The only good thing about Twilight is how much Robert Pattinson hates it.

[turquoise]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again- The vampire pregnancy/birth scene is totally stolen from Anne Rice's Lasher books. It's ridiculous how similar the two are. Sure, Lasher wasn't a vampire, but he was some type of immortal creature.

As far as plot ideas stolen from other books, is anyone familiar with Anne McCaffrey's books about the Rowan and her children? Afra is quietly in love with the Rowan, who falls in love with and marries Jeff Raven. Afra ends up falling in love with Rowan's daughter Damia as an infant, and marries her when she grows up. At least Damia grew up in real time, not in four years (or whatever happens in Twilight.)

Much as I love many of McCaffrey's other books, that plot twist really creeped me out.