Lutherans

[clarinetpower]

I grew up Lutheran and still am, after some searching with my Buddhist husband (but I missed it, and there's no hybrid. Oh, and the Quakers? Many are just as judgmental as any fundie.) I attend weekly, and even have a potluck at church tomorrow. :) Though I'm no longer in the Midwest, I'm bringing Krumkake. (Anyone?) Much of my family has either fallen away from church entirely or gone way conservative. Part of the reason I'm here at FJ is from trying to figure out some of their whackadoodle beliefs.

Some thoughts:

• There is also Church of the Lutheran Brethren. I have a cousin that works for them. He's really conservative. That's about all I know about that, though they've been around for a while.
  
  ELCA is the most liberal of the branches, and as someone said, there is autonomy. My congregation is extremely liberal, with gay deacons and staff, weekly prayer for the state of the environment, etc. Women are in leadership and teaching in our congregation, while wearing pants and short hair. We have yoga classes in our fellowship hall.
  
  Our hymnals are in 4-part harmony and include works by composers such as Bach, Beethoven, Luther, Vaughan Williams, etc. Some of us *ahem* regularly try to sing harmony. :whistle:
  
  Our congregation regularly uses the NSRV, but we have copies of all sorts of bibles in our library, and the pastors will use any. They are very interesting people to talk to, because they actually know a lot about the different translations and the original languages and usage of the words.
  
  It is not uncommon to see "St. Mark's", "St. John's", etc. There is a part in the new testament where John refers to all who believe in Christ as Saints. Saint Clarinetpower, here. ;-) We do not venerate saints as does the Catholic or Orthodox church, however, and there's no beatification. I am as much of a saint as St. Bartholomew. We do not study lives of the saints nor pray to them. (I have no idea who St. Bartholomew is.)
  
  Some Lutherans do cross themselves. I notice our pastors do, and some congregants do. It's personal choice, not a requirement. I don't.
  
  We attract former Catholics because we have many of the same basic beliefs, without all the extra stuff you can't find in the Bible. (Sola Scriptora) Not nearly as many rules, but the same rhythms during the service. Luther was trying to reform the Catholic church, after all.
  
  We do use the term "the holy catholic church" in the Apostle's creed. Note the lower case.
  
  We don't go to confession. In each service, there is a time for silent confession, and we all read a statement of confession. Then the pastor pronounces us forgiven. Ta da!
  
  We do like our jello green, though my grandma makes a mean red jello + raspberries + real whipped cream salad. And yes, we call it salad. :mrgreen:
  
  Catholics are welcome at our communion. Our pastor says each and every time, "all are welcome at the table".
  
  First communion varies depending on the congregation. My church when I was a kid did it at confirmation, but then we moved and the new church did it earlier, so I just did it one week when my mom said, "Oh, just go!" The church I'm at now does it around 3rd grade or so, I think, but you can choose differently if you like. We're flexible like that.
  
  We did learn differences in theology in confirmation class, but it was not in a "we are right and they are dumbasses!" kind of way. It was done very respectfully, as in a "that's different" way, but not bad. We recognize that we are all in need of God's grace, and so we don't have any right to think we're superior to anyone.
  
  We do tend to dress up a bit, but you don't have to if you don't want to. Some people come in jeans and t shirts with flip flops, and I have never noticed anyone minding. We're just happy to see each other. Other congregations may be different.
  
  We often hug during the "sharing the peace" time. I love that. Again, other congregations may be different.
  
  Garrison Keillor gets it. When I listen to his show, I feel like I'm back home visiting.
  
  We love to eat, and we're fine with drinking. Jesus did!
  
  Some churches do more with contemporary music, praise bands, power point, etc. Our church doesn't do a lot, just a bit. I don't mind. I'm a music teacher--I'd rather sing Bach. And underscoring pisses me off.
  
  The pastors wear the dress, though in the summer ours don't to save on energy costs, but they still wear the collar.
  
  We are involved in many missions in our area and around the world, including food bank, gardening for the food bank, yearly trips to Tennessee to build homes, wells in Africa, Habitat for Humanity, etc. These are helping others missions, not believe what we do or you're going to hell missions.
  
  Our pastors are kind, honest, funny, personable and open people who really care about us. I feel like I can be myself when I'm around them. I feel like I can be myself with anyone at church--it's really a family. I <3 my church. :)
  
  

[SunnyAndrsn]

I grew up Lutheran and still am, after some searching with my Buddhist husband (but I missed it, and there's no hybrid. Oh, and the Quakers? Many are just as judgmental as any fundie.) I attend weekly, and even have a potluck at church tomorrow. Though I'm no longer in the Midwest, I'm bringing Krumkake. (Anyone?) Much of my family has either fallen away from church entirely or gone way conservative. Part of the reason I'm here at FJ is from trying to figure out some of their whackadoodle beliefs.

My husband love krumkake. I never had it until I moved closer to MN, and I'm not a real fan. I do love lefse though, which was also new for me when we met. It's in all of the stores this time of year.

[Sunnichick31]

I'm not Lutheran, but I have Lutheran family and they always mention that at their church, they always serve lutafisk at the potlucks. Is this just something done in their church, or is it pretty common? They always invite me to come and try it, but I don't have a death wish thank u very much!

[Vex]

I went to a conservative Lutheran school for a while. I never learned anything about their beliefs, even though I took religion as an elective class. We technically had chapel once a week, but all the the staff and students met in the chapel before classes four days a week and hymns were always sung, so chapel was essentially daily. They were the same hymns I'd always sung in my other schools, which had been Anglican or non-denominational.

Once, an archbishop visited us and railed against atheists. He said "atheists are the tools of the devil, sent to lead good Christians astray". I was shocked they'd let him say that, especially since I knew most of the kids were atheists who came from families that were either agnostic or simply Lutherans in name only. I thought it was way over the top for a school chapel lecture.

[bekkah]

First off, Krumkae is delicious. My grandma makes it for me every Christmas. I also love lefse.

I grew up in small town Minnesota and was raised in the Lutheran tradition. I don't think I would trade any other denomination for the one I was raised in. My congregation is very educated and liberal. We welcome all people as God's people. Any one can take communion. Our pastor divorced a few years back, he was able to stay for which I'm grateful for. Confirmation was great. They taught us a lot about other religions and the meanings of certain things. The reformation was a topic covered among various other things. We have 3 years of education and I got confirmed in 9th grade. We take communion in 5th grade. Its interesting to see the variety that exists within our denomination. The music is my favorite part of the service. I have to admit I love the organ and I love that we have Bach. My favorite hymn is I was there to hear you borning cry. I'm happy that our church encourages education. Also that we let women and homosexuals serve as clergy. I think that really speaks to how friendly we are and accepting of all people.

I miss soup suppers. They always make the most delicious soup and bread. I really enjoy that part too. I do love a good dose of hot dish. I agree that Garrison Kellihor makes me feel closer to Minnesota.

[jenny_islander]

Raised in an ALC congregation that became ELCA. We referred to ourselves as "Catholics without the Pope." Never heard preaching on modesty, wife-only submission, Young Earth creationism, etc., etc., and placed great emphasis on inclusivity, social responsibility, and historical understanding. For the first we would practice one hymn per month during the service that was from a country outside the usual Northwestern European/North American hymnwriting area. For the second we had an annual poverty dinner at which you got a ticket assigned at random when you arrived: a small number got a five-course meal at a table set with china, crystal, and silver, a bigger number sat at plain plastic tables and got all-you-can-eat rice and beans with salsa, and most people got to sit on the floor in semi-darkness with a small bowl of rice topped with a measly serving of lentils and greens. We also held regular fund drives for Lutheran World Relief, collected cans of food for local food banks, etc. For the historical understanding part we had lots of exploration of the historical context of the week's text in upper grade Sunday school and we also held a seder to place the narrative of the Last Supper in context.

As for Bible versions, we tended to use the NRSV and the NIV, but the pastor had a whole shelf of different versions that he used off and on. He suggested the Jerusalem Bible to me for its handling of the poetic passages.

We did corporate confession with an option for private confession by appointment, celebrated Eucharist every week, and used a liturgy that was largely sung although there was no requirement for this--we just liked it that way. We read 3 Bible passages and chanted 2 psalms every week as well as singing 4 or 5 hymns. There were both written and spontaneous prayers in the service. There was one sermon for adults and one for children. Wee kids got to play in the playroom for most of the service.

I left that congregation for 2 main reasons: I moved further away from it and closer to the Episcopal congregation that had shared its facilities with us when I was little; and I found that as active and inclusive as the congregation was, it had no place for young couples without children. There was youth group, and there was stuff for parents to do. We were basically assumed to be on hold until we had kids. So I stopped going and my husband decided to quit a bit later on. I understand that this has changed, but in the meantime I have become part of my new congregation and after a while my husband (not a big joiner) followed suit.

I have no quarrel with the doctrine I learned in my cradle church. I still have the "How To Explain Lutheran Doctrine" booklet I received after confirmation, which cites as a summation the words Luther supposedly had sewn inside his shirt late in his life: "We are beggars; this is true. Alleluia!"

[jenny_islander]

I'm not Lutheran, but I have Lutheran family and they always mention that at their church, they always serve lutafisk at the potlucks. Is this just something done in their church, or is it pretty common? They always invite me to come and try it, but I don't have a death wish thank u very much!

I think it's a Minnesota thing. My old congregation threw great potlucks, no dreaded green Jello in sight, and no lutefisk.

[Cran]

Are Lutherans NOT Calvinists?

Definitely not. Luther and Calvin, the two great reformers, disagreed on many points, sacraments as just one example, predestination of believes is another important one.

Protestants can be very, very different in believes, usually only united in the believe that the bible is to be sole authority - no pope. ;)

In Germany, Calvinists and Lutherans are kind "mixed together" in the different Protestant main churches, but usually, it isn't so, and they form different communities. Most of the little evangelical comunities have Calvinist roots or doctrine, even if they claim to be "ONLY CHRISTIAN"!

I believe some also have a mash-up up several sets of believes and can't be clearly defined as either Calvinist or Lutheran.

[Katiebug]

I'm not Lutheran, but I have Lutheran family and they always mention that at their church, they always serve lutafisk at the potlucks. Is this just something done in their church, or is it pretty common? They always invite me to come and try it, but I don't have a death wish thank u very much!

Many Lutheran churches retain a few of the traditions of the founders of the congregation, and the majority of Lutheran congregations in the US that were founded 100+ years ago were founded by immigrants from Germany and the Nordic countries. Lutefisk is a traditional dish in Norway and Sweden so it makes sense that some Lutheran churches would continue to have a Lutefisk supper or that someone would bring it to a potluck. More recently-founded congregations would not have those continuing cultural influences because they weren't founded by recent immigrants.

For example, the ELCA congregation that my parents belong to was founded by Swedish immigrants in the 1800s and there are plenty of signs of it - Swedish baked goods, a St. Lucia festival in early December, a korv supper as a fundraiser for the youth group, etc. At a potluck folks always bring Swedish dishes. The congregation has expanded far beyond Swedes in ethnicity and culture of members to the point where the majority are not of Swedish extraction (including my family), but there's nothing wrong with continuing some of the Swedish cultural traditions. They're fun and most of the food is pretty tasty. :lol: To contrast, our ELCA congregation was founded by Germans and they were an LCMS and then AELC congregation prior to the ELCA merger. However there is almost no German influence remaining in congregational activities/events today.

For general reference, I'm ELCA and have been (or in a predecessor Lutheran church) all my life. My mother is of WELS and LCMS background but with my dad being Baptist at the time, that ended pretty quickly upon their marriage, since the Missouri Synod church she belonged to at the time didn't approve. They/we went ALC after that until the ELCA merger in the mid-80s.

My husband and I actually visited the LCMS congregation here in town and it was not a welcoming experience. We chose to stick with the ELCA, albeit in a congregation that tends to the more conservative side. In my high school elective in comparative religion, I compared/contrasted the three major Lutheran groups in the US and my mom came with me to visit a WELS church after 10+ years in the ELCA; she was pretty much horrified at how fundamentalist they actually are.

The problem that we've had with our church - with all Lutheran churches around here - is that there is little or no attempt made to include and engage young adults without children. Mr. Bug and I were married for 4.5 years before I got pregnant and for several years we attended Sunday services and that was it. Any of the "family" activities were really meant for families with children. We were the only couple in our age group (late 20s and 30s) without children and therefore we didn't really fit in socially. As soon as I was visibly pregnant it was like a light switch went off and suddenly people were introducing themselves, being friendly, and inviting us to church activities. They are very family-centered and I get that, but they need to be more inclusive of single adults and of couples without children.

[1004srs]

I am a cradle Catholic, but for a while I converted to Lutheran. I was Missouri Synod which is very close to Catholic. I really, really liked being Lutheran. But, Catholicism is my culture as well as my faith. So, after I got divorced I went back home to it. We were a smaller congregation. But, the music was neat. It was my first experience with modern worship music and a praise band.

Our paster grew up Catholic, but also converted to Lutheranism. I still keep in touch with him. He's a really nice guy.

Amazingly enough, my brother also converted and is still ELCA Lutheran. He also loves it.

Yes, the coffee is good and so are the poutlucks. But, we do that at our Catholic church, too.

[clarinetpower]

Yep, Lutefisk is Norwegian and Swedish. I am Norwegian and German (one grandparent, she grew up MoSy but switched when she married). I have never tasted it. :) I prefer the meatballs.

Krumkake is better with butter. I may need to send you some of mine. ;) Some lazy cooks use margarine. (GASP!) Ishda pew.

BTW, I'm a North Dakota Lutheran originally, though born in MN while my parents lived in the Cities. ND, SD, MN, Iowa--all have a lot of Norsk and Svensk immigrants. Lutheranism is the state church in Norway. (No choice.)

Off to church!

[bekkah]

I miss Krumkake and I feel like I need some. Hopefully someone at Thanksgiving will have it. I really enjoy meatballs and all the good fixings too. My church in my hometown does try to make things for people in their 20s to do. They meet at the local bar and talk about God. I think that is good that they do that. The lutefisk dinners take place in another church close by which makes me happy because i don't like the smell.

[darareaksmey]

I am in an ELCA congregation in coastal South Carolina and I think people would drop dead if someone brought in lutefisk! It's not part of the Lutheran culture here, but then most of the Lutheran churches in SC are based on the German immigration in the early 19th century/late 18th century and don't have much Scandinavian background.

I'm from the midlands of SC, where there is an ELCA seminary, probably as a consequence of the aforesaid early German settlements. There are loads of ELCA churches in the midlands of SC, which is kinda funny because one associates SC with being Bible-thumping, fundy protestants. OH-SO-NOT-TRUE. I mean, there are also loads of Southern Baptists and other more conservative Christians, but it is a mistake to paint the South as an area full of narrow-minded Christians only. This is why you will sometimes see me on this board taking someone to task for speaking in broad terms about how all Christians in the Deep South are (fundy, sexist, homophobic, you-name-the-social evil).

I remember when one of the changes of liturgy took place in the 60's, and in the Creed we started saying "oOne, holy, CATHOLIC and apostolic church (instead of CHRISTIAN) and how some of my elderly cousins went ballistic. The last thing they wanted to be thought of or associated with in any way was Catholics. Funny, though. As I started going with my husband to Catholic Mass, I realized that the mass is virtually identical to the Lutheran service.. Except God forbid you should present yourself for Coummunion. I'll never get over that.

Today we had a potluck after church and there was NO jello. The best dessert there was Blackberry Wine Cake, made by the pastor's wife.

[anniebgood]

The church I attended as a kid (we were charter members) was of the German persuasion as were 90 % of the people who attended. The church I was baptized in had a German service until the late 70's when the elderly attendants dwindled down. The church I moved to in CA, was Scandinavian and it was a bit of a change. I never tasted lefse, krumkake, rosettes until I attended my first Christmas smorgasbord. We didn't have lutefisk, though I knew what it was from my friends who had relatives in MN. For years I had the impression that pee and lye was involved. :oops:

If I moved somewhere and there wasn't a Lutheran church, I think I'd head to an Episcopal one.

edited because I mean lutefisk not lefse. I love fresh lefse with lots of butter. Can't find it here.

[clarinetpower]

...Scandinavian and it was a bit of a change. I never tasted lefse, krumkake, rosettes until I attended my first Christmas smorgasbord. We didn't have lefse, though I knew what it was from my friends who had relatives in MN. For years I had the impression that pee and lye was involved. :oops:

If I moved somewhere and there wasn't a Lutheran church, I think I'd head to an Episcopal one.

Lefse is a potato flatbread, like a super tender and delicate tortilla, eaten with butter and sometimes sugar, rolled. I make it, but it is a big job and takes two days.

Lutefisk is made with lye but no pee AFAIK. My grandpa still eats it every Christmas, but the rest of us are smarter than that. ;) I never have tasted it, actually.

ALSO

One of our pastors is a Lutheran from South Carolina. I had no idea there were Lutherans down there, but they must be of the same cloth as ND/SD/MN/IA Lutherans, ie: fairly modest and don't draw much attention to themselves. We're not the ones waving our hands in the air saying, "Aaa--oh! I love Jesus, doncha know!"

[anniebgood]

I meant lutefisk not lefse. I can't remember people ever making lutefisk when I was a kid, but if there wasn't creamed and pickled herring at a big dinner people would complain. I don't touch that either.

[Witsec7]

I meant lutefisk not lefse. I can't remember people ever making lutefisk when I was a kid, but if there wasn't creamed and pickled herring at a big dinner people would complain. I don't touch that either.

I have Scandahoovian friends (TICgeneric term) I make lefse, and have made lutefish, ( :o ) and pickled herring. I make the Polish and Italian versions of Krumkake. I also make a fantastic Frikadeller although I think my meatballs are somewhat lacking.

[anniebgood]

I learned how to make wonderful Swedish meatballs from my Swedish singing partner. I am known as the queen of the cabbage rolls though in our church. I always make them for the smorgasbord and if they aren't there people actually ask for them. I'm making them this year, but am cutting down the number. I don't want to take them home because no one except me will eat them in my family.

[clarinetpower]

I don't like pickled/creamed herring either. Blech!

Here's my mom's meatball recipe. They're good.

· 1 lb. ground beef

· 1 lb. ground sausage (pork)

· 2 eggs, beaten

· 2 cups grated potatoes, oatmeal, bread or cracker crumbs (I usually use some of each for a total of 3 cups)

· 2 T. minced onion

· 1 cup scalded milk (heat, don’t boil!)

· salt and pepper to taste

· 1/4 tsp. each nutmeg, allspice and ground ginger

Mix all together well and form into balls (about the size of a walnut shell). Brown in oil in frying pan or spray pan (baking sheet with sides to catch grease, or a large roaster if you are going to use with gravy) with non-stick cooking spray and put into 350 degree oven for about 25 minutes. Turn and return to oven to finish browning.

For gravy: add soup (cream of chicken, mushroom or celery or Golden Mushroom), add leftover gravy or gravy mixes prepared according to directions. (Add water if needed). Return to oven and bake for 1 hour. May be frozen.

Note: I don’t do my gravy this way—my husband can’t handle that much cream and I never have leftover gravy! I am also very wary of those canned soups. My compromise is to make a roux with flour and butter (until it is the color of peanut butter), add beef and chicken broth (more beef than chicken, and mix well before adding onions otherwise you may have lumps of flour) and chopped onions, and spice it with salt and pepper, nutmeg, allspice and ground ginger like the meatballs. Cook until it is the consistency you like for your gravy. Sorry I don’t have measurements—I just kind of do it until it smells right (like my mom taught me!) You can also put these in a slow cooker—works great for reheating them and holding them if you’re having a party or if your oven is full.

[Witsec7]

My older cousin had a killer recipe for meatballs from a Swede she went to nursing school with. It has been lost to the ages, IIRC it had beef, pork and veal, with bread and sour cream was used in the gravy with a dash of sherry. Its the standard of my childhood, yet to be duplicated. sigh...

[NurseNell]

My older cousin had a killer recipe for meatballs from a Swede she went to nursing school with. It has been lost to the ages, IIRC it had beef, pork and veal, with bread and sour cream was used in the gravy with a dash of sherry. Its the standard of my childhood, yet to be duplicated. sigh...

Meatballs, like meatloaf, should be made with beef, pork, and veal.

[Witsec7]

CP I'm gonna try your recipe with some tweeking. I will use your spice proportions and start with a brown roux for the gravy. TYVM

[darareaksmey]

[quote="clarinetpower.

ALSO

One of our pastors is a Lutheran from South Carolina. I had no idea there were Lutherans down there, but they must be of the same cloth as ND/SD/MN/IA Lutherans, ie]

Oh, yeah. When I was growing up, just outside of Columbia, the capital of SC (and also the location of Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary), I thought there were exactly three Protestant denominations: Lutherans, Baptists and Methodists. There appeared in my small realm of experience to be about equal numbers of Baptists and Lutherans, and a good but smaller number of Methodists. I had many Lutheran friends in public school, and what seems funny now is that they were all spread among different congregations, but all were LCA (now ELCA). I remember we Lutheran kids counted ourselves lucky not to be Baptist because they had to go to church Sunday morning and evening AND Wednesday night. I don't think I knew a Presbyterian till high school, nor an Episcopalian till I went off to college. Not saying they weren't there, but they didn't have the presence of the Lutherans and Baptists.

As far as not calling attention to ourselves, I like to think we just try to shut up about it and go about God's work.

[darareaksmey]

Forgot to mention, I think there are a number of ELCA congregations in NC too. We had a pastor once from the western part of the state. But oddly, there seem to be many fewer ELCAs in Georgia, which is right next door to the Carolinas. I had a college roommate from Georgia, and she visited me once in the Columbia area and wanted to know what the heck was up with all the Lutheran churches they passed on the way to my house. There were -0- in her part of Georgia, and she thought they were a cult! I told her, yes, we have been called the cult of Luther (a perjorative term I think Catholics used to use for Lutherans).

[clarinetpower]

Enjoy. :) I make my gravy with a brown roux, too, and usually homemade stock. Best is starting with pan drippings, of course. I just can't do the soup thing. Mom also sometimes used meatloaf mix for the meatballs, and it was good (with veal.) Hers were so tender and delicious, and my grandma got very angry and jealous when her own daughter was requested to bring them and not her. :) But of course, being a Midwestern cook in the 70's and 80's, soups played their part...

I took them to a Thanksgiving meal in Paris when we were living there, and the french father requested the recipe. He loved them. His wife now makes them regularly. I take that as a high compliment--the french are hard to please. :)