Lutherans

[alysee]

I am totally intrugied by Lutherans thanks to watching Drop Dead Gorgeous. I know nothing about it thanks to only having grown up Catholic so tell me what's the deal with the Lutherans?

 

I do know I could do a length websearch but since I am on vacation my time is limited!

[NurseNell]

I am totally intrugied by Lutherans thanks to watching Drop Dead Gorgeous. I know nothing about it thanks to only having grown up Catholic so tell me what's the deal with the Lutherans?

I do know I could do a length websearch but since I am on vacation my time is limited!

The are few differences between Catholics and Lutherans, at least in Minnesota. Catholics believe that communion is the body and blood of Christ, Lutherans believe communion represents the body and blood of Christ. Lutheran kids go to Sunday School, Catholic kids don't. Lutherans have a lot of potluck suppers, where you must bring a hot dish to pass, catholics don't. That's about it. Oh wait, Lutheran pastors can marry, Catholic pastors can't. And Lutheran kids make first communion at the same time as they are conformed, generally in 8th grade. Catholic kids make first communion in 2nd grade, confirmation is some time later, the time varies from diocese to diocese

[anniebgood]

We're descended from the German monk Martin Luther who disagreed with the selling of indulgences by the Catholic Church. He married a nun, wrote lots of great things, had a passel of kids and wrote some wonderful hymns. We don't believe in transubstantiation, but believe that Jesus Christ is present body and blood in the bread and wine. We practice infant baptism, we like our coffee black and our jello green and can whip a casserole up with any creamed soup in the kitchen. If you went to a traditional Lutheran service you'd hear the Kyrie, Gloria, Alleluia, homily, the prayer of the people, peace. offertory, the great thanksgiving and the dismissal. And of course at least 3 hymns and a psalm thrown in there.

We're a hodge podge of different races and nations but we believe in Jesus Christ.

There are a few of us here on FJ.

[NurseNell]

We're descended from the German monk Martin Luther who disagreed with the selling of indulgences by the Catholic Church. He married a nun, wrote lots of great things, had a passel of kids and wrote some wonderful hymns. We don't believe in transubstantiation, but believe that Jesus Christ is present body and blood in the bread and wine. We practice infant baptism, we like our coffee black and our jello green and can whip a casserole up with any creamed soup in the kitchen. If you went to a traditional Lutheran service you'd hear the Kyrie, Gloria, Alleluia, homily, the prayer of the people, peace. offertory, the great thanksgiving and the dismissal. And of course at least 3 hymns and a psalm thrown in there.

We're a hodge podge of different races and nations but we believe in Jesus Christ.

There are a few of us here on FJ.

I forgot about the green jello.

Catholics practice infant baptism too.

And Lutherans sing better.

[Kdw]

I had no idea us Lutherans were fascinating! :D now I totally want to watch Drop Dead Gorgeous. Lutheranism is often referred to as "Catholic Light". A lot of similarities. I would say that there are different synods that have different "rules". ELCA is the largest group and are more liberal, some churches have started ordaining homosexuals and women, Missouri synod is more conservative and then there is Wisconsin synod which is more conservative than that, but I don't know much about that group.

[lizzy]

Isn't there a lot of variation among lutherans? ELCA, Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Synod. What are the differences between them?

[NurseNell]

I had no idea us Lutherans were fascinating! :D now I totally want to watch Drop Dead Gorgeous. Lutheranism is often referred to as "Catholic Light". A lot of similarities. I would say that there are different synods that have different "rules". ELCA is the largest group and are more liberal, some churches have started ordaining homosexuals and women, Missouri synod is more conservative and then there is Wisconsin synod which is more conservative than that, but I don't know much about that group.

I do know the Wisconsin Synod doesn't pray with other Christians, not even other Lutherans. I think they might have lightened up in that area though. I was at a WI Synod service this summer to celebrate the end of Vacation Bible School, it was on a Sunday and was the only service that day at that church. The pastor knew some of us were not WI Synod but still prayed and said grace for the picnic lunch. My grand daughter goes to the WI Synod after school program, and went to Bible School there.

[Deleted12]

Lutheran church is a very "straight" service.

Every Lutheran church I've been to has traditional hymns, everyone's dressed up a bit, audience participation is NOT encouraged, and there's no charismatic element.

[Turtle]

We're descended from the German monk Martin Luther who disagreed with the selling of indulgences by the Catholic Church. He married a nun, wrote lots of great things, had a passel of kids and wrote some wonderful hymns. We don't believe in transubstantiation, but believe that Jesus Christ is present body and blood in the bread and wine. We practice infant baptism, we like our coffee black and our jello green and can whip a casserole up with any creamed soup in the kitchen. If you went to a traditional Lutheran service you'd hear the Kyrie, Gloria, Alleluia, homily, the prayer of the people, peace. offertory, the great thanksgiving and the dismissal. And of course at least 3 hymns and a psalm thrown in there.

We're a hodge podge of different races and nations but we believe in Jesus Christ.

There are a few of us here on FJ.

He also wrote some crazy stuff too. I had to read a collection of some of his writings in college and it was fascinating. Entertaining to me, but I'm a bit of a nerd.

[Cran]

Lutherans believe not in transubstantiation (bread and wine change into blood and body of Christ and stay that way), but consubstantiation (blood and body during receiving, but not before and after). The view "it is completely symbolic" is associated with Calvinism.

Like all other Protestants, the three "solae" are ofgreatest importance:

sola scriptura: The bible os the only source of believes (contrary to the scripture - tradition - church-model of Catholics)

sola fide: Saved by faith, not works

sola gratia: Above is only graned through the grace of God

As pointed out before, there can be doctrinal difference because Lutherans organize themselves on a local basis 8and elect worldwide representatives from among them).

Unlike Catholics and like other Protestants, they have two sacraments (seven for the C's), baptism and eucharist. Some very traaditional parishes retain the possibility for auricular confession, but this is not seen as sacrament as has nearly completely died out.

And yes, they do have a lovely tradition of the most georgous hymns, Luthe rhimself was quite proficient in that!

Too tired to think of more, right now.

[sugaree]

There must be substantial differences between the different branches of Lutherans because although I have found extreme fundie Lutherans on the Internet, my stepfather's Lutheran extended family is pretty much culturally identical to my mother's Catholic extended family, and could not be called fundie in any way.

I found the Lutheran services to be very similar to the Catholic services, just more relaxing. Not as much standing, sitting, kneeling.

[Kdw]

Well, I was raised Missouri synod in the pacific northwest though not in a super conservative congregation. A lot of the differences amongst the groups seems to come from who can be ordained as pastor (gays, women, divorced men) for instance at my church the pastor got divorced and had to leave as pastor there and not receive a new church for a time, he does have a new church now. Also, there is patriarchal ideals in place -man is spiritual leader etc though I have seen VERY little of this actually really practiced, women can hold certain positions in church leadership. Also conservative ideas regarding abortion, marriage and family. However we believe the creed- Faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone. A personal relationship with God is emphasized as well as the belief that we are all sinners and are saved not by anything we do, but by God's mercy. "we are not saved by good works, but we do good works because we are saved"

I am not sure about the Wisconsin synod at all or if things are much different in the Midwest where there are a LOT of Lutherans. Dontcha know?

[emmiedahl]

I was sent to Lutheran school for a few years (Wisconsin Synod, if it makes a difference) and they were hella fundie. The pastor and all of the important, suit-wearing men in the church were also leaders of the local John Birch Society. They believed that Jews were going to Hell because they are communists (the greatest mortal sin!!!) and that Catholics go to Hell because they bow down to graven images. The Missouri Synod was hated on constantly, but I do not remember why. Ultra-conservative, ultra-stuffy, our-way-is-the-only-right-way stuff. With some racism and sexism thrown in. We had huge sections of our science books (which I believe came from a Lutheran publisher???) blacked out because of modesty issues, etc.

That and a really awesome grammar education are all I gleaned from the experience.

As an interesting side note, I was required to take the religious classes for confirmation even though, as the teacher pointed out on a daily basis, I was a mixture of the two greatest evils (Jew and Catholic) and thus not eligible for entry to Heaven or the Lutheran Church.

I did not leave them with the greatest impression of my people. In fact, after two years of trying to fit in, I drew obscene words on the wall with Sharpie and did other obnoxious crap that got my entire family booted.

I know that not all Lutherans are this way, btw.

[anniebgood]

There must be substantial differences between the different branches of Lutherans because although I have found extreme fundie Lutherans on the Internet, my stepfather's Lutheran extended family is pretty much culturally identical to my mother's Catholic extended family, and could not be called fundie in any way.

I found the Lutheran services to be very similar to the Catholic services, just more relaxing. Not as much standing, sitting, kneeling.

We used to hop up and down a lot but now that our congregation has aged it's a lot easier on the older folks. I've been to more modern services with praise bands, the movie screens, spirit dancing and the whole 9 yards. I prefer the traditional service and will go out of my way to attend that.

My god parents were Mo Synod but changed to ELCA because they didn't agree with not ordaining women. I had a woman pastor at our marriage. The Wisconsin synod think they are the only "lutherans" and they are quite conservative. There are several other groups, like the American Association of Lutheran Churches which was created by congregations that thought the ELCA was way too liberal and didn't want to associate with us heathens anymore.

[Kdw]

Emmiedahl- as far as i have ever heard Wisconsin synod is VERY different from the other groups. We are definitely NOT fundie in anyway at my church- we have a female DCE, women vote on all church issues, the women of the congregation work, use birth control, wear pants ( ;) )

Mrsanniebgood-are you Wisconsin synod? If so what have you been told about the other synods and where do you live?

[Austin]

My sons are Lutherans (the AustinDude and I are not - long story) and the church they attend is not fundie. Unfortunately, the powers that be got their boxers and girdles in a twist over teh hypothetical gay and recently left the ELCA, and I'm definitely getting a more conservative vibe out of their newsletters and such.

They also hired a freaking almost-fundie youth leader a few years back. My eldest son escaped her, but our twins have come up through high school under her leadership. She doesn't understand, clearly, the damage that guilt and shame can do to young people, and I've gotten pretty aggravated at some of the guilt trips she's laid on my one son, in particular. He is prone to anxiety and taking on the guilt of others in the first place. So yeah, not a fan of some of the changes.

[NurseNell]

I was sent to Lutheran school for a few years (Wisconsin Synod, if it makes a difference) and they were hella fundie. The pastor and all of the important, suit-wearing men in the church were also leaders of the local John Birch Society. They believed that Jews were going to Hell because they are communists (the greatest mortal sin!!!) and that Catholics go to Hell because they bow down to graven images. The Missouri Synod was hated on constantly, but I do not remember why. Ultra-conservative, ultra-stuffy, our-way-is-the-only-right-way stuff. With some racism and sexism thrown in. We had huge sections of our science books (which I believe came from a Lutheran publisher???) blacked out because of modesty issues, etc.

That and a really awesome grammar education are all I gleaned from the experience.

As an interesting side note, I was required to take the religious classes for confirmation even though, as the teacher pointed out on a daily basis, I was a mixture of the two greatest evils (Jew and Catholic) and thus not eligible for entry to Heaven or the Lutheran Church.

I did not leave them with the greatest impression of my people. In fact, after two years of trying to fit in, I drew obscene words on the wall with Sharpie and did other obnoxious crap that got my entire family booted.

I know that not all Lutherans are this way, btw.

Why were you sent to a WI Synod church if you were Jewish and Catholic (up to now I thought you were only Jewish) ?

[alysee]

What bible do they use?

[emmiedahl]

I am a product of a mixed marriage. My father was actually Protestant by upbringing and atheist by belief, but his second marriage was to an ultra-Catholic Hispanic woman, so when I was at his house we were Catholic. My mother is Jewish but has done a lot of religion-hopping and is now Buddhist. Ditto for my stepdad. My parents were not too hung up on raising me in any particular religion; everyone involved, parents and stepparents, felt that we should be raised with exposure to various religions and then allowed to choose as adults. I have 2 agnostic siblings who lean toward secular Judaism, 1 Reform Jewish, 1 independent fundamentalist Baptist, 1 Catholic, and 1 Eastern Orthodox. Plus me, a Reform Jew.

My parents preferred private schools over the very bad public schools in the area. My mother has a thing against Catholic schools because she was sent to one. There were no secular private schools in the area, and the Lutherans ran a school that was academically stellar. They made it sound like they were happy to take non-Lutherans when my parents enrolled us, although it turned out that my family and 1 Catholic boy were the only people in the school who were not WELS Lutherans. So I went to Lutheran school for about 3 years, in 5th, 6th, and 7th grade. My maternal grandmother became Lutheran at some point in middle age, too, so I think she had something to do with it. It's all very convoluted. My children will have similar stories. :)

About the Bible, we used an NIV and then two different Catechisms, a small one and a large one.

[anniebgood]

Emmiedahl- as far as i have ever heard Wisconsin synod is VERY different from the other groups. We are definitely NOT fundie in anyway at my church- we have a female DCE, women vote on all church issues, the women of the congregation work, use birth control, wear pants ( ;) )

Mrsanniebgood-are you Wisconsin synod? If so what have you been told about the other synods and where do you live?

I am ALC born ELCA since the merger. I grew up in an ALC church in Wisconsin and have been a member of the same church ELCA in CA that I joined when we moved here. I was shunned once in an Wi Synod church and I had a bad taste in my mouth. If Christ instituted the meal as a gift to all, why exclude those who aren't Wi Synod. I love my church , we are open arms and embrace everyone. When the current pastor retires or leaves I'll give the new one the benefit of the doubt and if not, I'll church shop.

We use the NRSV and follow the 3 year lectionary that the Catholic and Episcopal churches use.

edited to add info......

[darareaksmey]

I'm a lifelong Lutheran: ELCA now, before that merger I was LCA. ELCA is the most liberal of the Lutheran bodies in the US. That's not to say that ALL ELCA congregations or synods are liberal, but in general they are more welcoming and accepting than Wiconsin or Missouri Synods. Our own congregation recently sent a pastor packing who was not down with ELCA's new guidelines on welcoming GLBTs in the church. I think in general we don't appreciate limits being placed on who the church--and therefore God--loves. My whole life I've looked around me at the Baptists I was surrounded by as a child, and the Catholics I've consorted with as a grownup, and wondered why they all had to be so damned judgmental. That said, the more I know about Wisconsin and Missouri Synods, the more I kinda wonder that about them too...

And now I'm off to make 5-cup salad for a potluck after the service tomorrow.

[ohmeohmy]

I am ALC born ELCA since the merger. I grew up in an ALC church in Wisconsin and have been a member of the same church ELCA in CA that I joined when we moved here. I was shunned once in an Wi Synod church and I had a bad taste in my mouth. If Christ instituted the meal as a gift to all, why exclude those who aren't Wi Synod. I love my church , we are open arms and embrace everyone. When the current pastor retires or leaves I'll give the new one the benefit of the doubt and if not, I'll church shop.

We use the NRSV and follow the 3 year lectionary that the Catholic and Episcopal churches use.

edited to add info......

My husband's cousin is a WELS pastor and on the outset they look very mainstream: Halloween, wife wears rather low-cut tops, kids go to public school and participate in all activities, etc. However, when we visited their church for the first time, we were denied Communion because we weren't WELS members. I guess being a confirmed Methodist isn't good enough. I felt very judged and shunned and my husband was offended. I didn't know until now not all Lutheran churches are like that, but we decided then we'd never visit another Lutheran church if they were going to be so exclusive.

[Kdw]

Ohmeohmy- I am sad to think that Lutherans have that kind of reputation, I think of us as being very welcoming. :oops: That said at our last congregation which was much more conservative there was a statement in the bulletin about how we had great respect for the sacrament of communion and if you were visiting to please speak with a pastor if you wished to receive. I can see how that could be taken offensively. Was something said to you or was there a general announcement in the bulletin?

[SunnyAndrsn]

I do know the Wisconsin Synod doesn't pray with other Christians, not even other Lutherans. I think they might have lightened up in that area though. I was at a WI Synod service this summer to celebrate the end of Vacation Bible School, it was on a Sunday and was the only service that day at that church. The pastor knew some of us were not WI Synod but still prayed and said grace for the picnic lunch. My grand daughter goes to the WI Synod after school program, and went to Bible School there.

The deal with the prayer is that WELS Lutherans are expected not to pray with non-WELS Lutherans, so if they go to a Catholic service, the expectation is that you are polite, but that you don't pray with the evil idol worshipers. On the other hand, you have to prove you are WELS Lutheran in order to take communion at a WELS church, or you will be denied. Show up to a WELS church, you're welcome to join in the fellowship...just not the communion.

[SunnyAndrsn]

My husband's cousin is a WELS pastor and on the outset they look very mainstream: Halloween, wife wears rather low-cut tops, kids go to public school and participate in all activities, etc. However, when we visited their church for the first time, we were denied Communion because we weren't WELS members. I guess being a confirmed Methodist isn't good enough. I felt very judged and shunned and my husband was offended. I didn't know until now not all Lutheran churches are like that, but we decided then we'd never visit another Lutheran church if they were going to be so exclusive.

Only the WELS will do this to you. ELCA will not, and I think Missouri Synod may have open communion as well. Scratch that, I know they do.