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Oh Lauren (wearinghispurity)...You are so SMRT.


LilMissMetaphor

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My husband and I have a similar age difference and I was only a year or two older than she was when we started dating. Historically, their age difference and relationship is quite normal. Maybe not in this day and age, but just because it's not common doesn't mean it's wrong..

A year or two as a teenager is a HUGE thing. I am a teacher, and I get to follow kids for about 6 years, and it's amazing how much my students can change and mature in just a couple years. I was just amazed today to hear one who drove me bonkers two years ago explaining how Steve Jobs had changed the world much more than Michael Jackson did to another classmate.

And it was NOT normal 100 years ago for a 27 year old to marry a 15 year old. A 20 year old might have married a 32 year old, but that's 5 more years of maturity. It was not normal at all for a 15 year old to marry.

(I'm of the group that the age difference isn't a big thing, it is the fact that she was 15 and he was 27. I would be much more comfortable if she had been 20 and he was 32, even 18 and 30 wouldn't be as squicky. I can NOT imagine a 9th grader marrying and making a healthy choice to marry, while a 12th grader would be young, but more equipped to make that decision)

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I agree, the age difference is not what has me "pearl clutching". It is that he was an adult and she was a child. And her father's involvement makes it squickier imo.

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You know, Lauren is one of the fundies that I actually like. And, gosh, it's embarrassing to admit this, but as a new mom, I find some of her posts kind of inspiring. She seems to genuinely love and enjoy her children unlike so many of the other fundies that we follow on this board. I mean, unlike the Maxwells, she seems to find joy in life and her faith is a source of comfort to her rather than a mechanism of control over the people around her.

On the other hand, I agree 100% with the concerns voiced in this thread over marrying her off so incredibly young and to someone so much older than her. The ick factor IS really high and I feel sad that her life has been so tightly conscribed by the me around her.

But, I'm hesitant to snark on HER too much. She is so young and really does seem to be doing a great job despite it all.

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I can NOT imagine a 9th grader marrying and making a healthy choice to marry, while a 12th grader would be young, but more equipped to make that decision

I agree. I also don't think a 12th grader would be equipped either. However, if the girl is raised that being a wife and mother is her only purpose in life, maybe this girl was like Raquel and couldn't wait to get married. Her dress........was interesting. Like something I'd wear in school when we had Shakespearean plays. Why couldn't her family wait until she was 18 at least? If she was married at 16 then she must have started courting way before then. Did he court her when she was 14? That's even creepier.

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I agree. I also don't think a 12th grader would be equipped either. However, if the girl is raised that being a wife and mother is her only purpose in life, maybe this girl was like Raquel and couldn't wait to get married. Her dress........was interesting. Like something I'd wear in school when we had Shakespearean plays. Why couldn't her family wait until she was 18 at least? If she was married at 16 then she must have started courting way before then. Did he court her when she was 14? That's even creepier.

I don't think that it's ideal for a 12th grader to marry, but a lot of them are 18, and that is still more acceptable than 15, when she was married. So, yes, she started courting when she was only 14, if not younger.

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For an even more disgusting picture of their marriage...http://www.lifeandlibertyministries.com ... 000151.php

I'm honestly sitting at my desk trying not to scare my coworkers by screaming and throwing things. this is just the most disgusting thing i've ever read. EVER.

That is just bizarre and really alarming in so many ways. :shock:

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I agree. I also don't think a 12th grader would be equipped either. However, if the girl is raised that being a wife and mother is her only purpose in life, maybe this girl was like Raquel and couldn't wait to get married. Her dress........was interesting. Like something I'd wear in school when we had Shakespearean plays. Why couldn't her family wait until she was 18 at least? If she was married at 16 then she must have started courting way before then. Did he court her when she was 14? That's even creepier.

Why does someone have to be brainwashed to want to be a wife and mother and want to get married?

I don't usually like to openly challenge anyone here unless they're trolling, but it seems like there's a tendency here to think the ONLY right or acceptable way of life is to be a career woman, and MAYBE marry in the late-20's or 30's and have a kid on the side if there's time/desire. The underestimation and outright hostility to different orders or priorities in life and passing anyone off as stupid/incapable who doesn't do things "the right" way is just as bad as the fundies.

From my experience with teenagers working with them outside a classroom setting, most are only as incapable and immature as they're shaped to be. Take from that what you will.

15 is young, sure. But she seems to be happy, functional. Just paging through her blog, she has interests and friendships and isn't cut off from the world as much as a lot of fundies are. She seems to genuinely love her husband and her children and is doing the best she can. How is that bad?

As for whether people married in their teens (to other teens or to older young adults) years ago, my family record begs to differ. My biological maternal grandmother was 16 (and my grandfather 24) when they married in the mid-1940's, though they didn't have children until the 50's. There are multiple records on both sides of my adoptive parents' records of marriages at 15, 16, 17, 18, and not only on my Irish side. Not everyone or even most married young, but it was certainly not uncommon.

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You know, Lauren is one of the fundies that I actually like. And, gosh, it's embarrassing to admit this, but as a new mom, I find some of her posts kind of inspiring. She seems to genuinely love and enjoy her children unlike so many of the other fundies that we follow on this board. I mean, unlike the Maxwells, she seems to find joy in life and her faith is a source of comfort to her rather than a mechanism of control over the people around her.

On the other hand, I agree 100% with the concerns voiced in this thread over marrying her off so incredibly young and to someone so much older than her. The ick factor IS really high and I feel sad that her life has been so tightly conscribed by the me around her.

But, I'm hesitant to snark on HER too much. She is so young and really does seem to be doing a great job despite it all.

She seems to genuinely love her kids because she probably does, and she only has two. Its not like she's doing anything else with her life. Hell she doesn't know anything else. Certainly after #7 or 8 before the age of 30, her attitude may change completely.

As far as her faith controlling her life her faith and father is what handed her off to her husband. (Who btw works for her father.) If thats not control I don't know what is. Its not like she's ever done any of the normal stuff a girl her age would have done. Like go to the beach with friends, take a bus into a city and explore for the day. Read a book like Weetzie Bat and discuss it with her gay male friend.

I see a girl like this and its as if she is locked in this perfect snow globe. Ya gotta hope no one drops it.

edited for rifffles

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She seems to genuinely love her kids because she probably does, and she only has two. Its not like she's doing anything else with her life. Hell she doesn't know anything else. Certainly after #7 or 8 before the age of 30, her attitude may change completely.

Well, TW has only one and isn't doing anything else with her life yet seems not to genuinely love her son. Maybe Lauren will change after she has more children but not necessarily.

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Why does someone have to be brainwashed to want to be a wife and mother and want to get married?

I don't usually like to openly challenge anyone here unless they're trolling, but it seems like there's a tendency here to think the ONLY right or acceptable way of life is to be a career woman, and MAYBE marry in the late-20's or 30's and have a kid on the side if there's time/desire. The underestimation and outright hostility to different orders or priorities in life and passing anyone off as stupid/incapable who doesn't do things "the right" way is just as bad as the fundies.

From my experience with teenagers working with them outside a classroom setting, most are only as incapable and immature as they're shaped to be. Take from that what you will.

15 is young, sure. But she seems to be happy, functional. Just paging through her blog, she has interests and friendships and isn't cut off from the world as much as a lot of fundies are. She seems to genuinely love her husband and her children and is doing the best she can. How is that bad?

As for whether people married in their teens (to other teens or to older young adults) years ago, my family record begs to differ. My biological maternal grandmother was 16 (and my grandfather 24) when they married in the mid-1940's, though they didn't have children until the 50's. There are multiple records on both sides of my adoptive parents' records of marriages at 15, 16, 17, 18, and not only on my Irish side. Not everyone or even most married young, but it was certainly not uncommon.

So you think it is okay for a child to marry a grown man?

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She seems to genuinely love her kids because she probably does, and she only has two. Its not like she's doing anything else with her life. Hell she doesn't know anything else. Certainly after #7 or 8 before the age of 30, her attitude may change completely.

As far as her faith controlling her life her faith and father is what handed her off to her husband. (Who btw works for her father.) If thats not control I don't know what is. Its not like she's ever done any of the normal stuff a girl her age would have done. Like go to the beach with friends, take a bus into a city and explore for the day. Read a book like Weetzie Bat and discuss it with her gay male friend.

I see a girl like this and its as if she is locked in this perfect snow globe. Ya gotta hope no one drops it.

edited for rifffles

You know what? I have 7 kids, albeit not all who I gave birth to but that's immaterial, work out of my home, and I still don't hate my kids or life. The number or time I've been a mom hasn't made me stop trying or striving to do the best I can with a good attitude about it instead of dragging through my day mentally kicking and screaming like a lot of people do.

I don't care if your personal aspiration doesn't include being a mom first and foremost, but it's really ugly to condescend to those with different priorities in life, fundie or not. Believe it or not, you don't have to be fundie or even religious (*gasp*! I'm a college educated ultra-liberal feminist with two gay parents!) to want to be a mother and enjoy it.

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So you think it is okay for a child to marry a grown man?

I'm not saying that, exactly. I don't think it's the worst thing on the planet though. I'd have to look at it on a case by case basis really. Like I said, she seems happy, mentally stable (for a fundie), in a functional relationship, and actually cares about raising her kids. That's more than I can say for a lot of people I know, even people on this forum, who have done things in the "proper" order and way.

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Lily I'm presuming you got to make these choices for yourself. You understood you had options. I doubt your life wasn't a little chess game of manipulation orchestrated by your father. Look at the differences. I don't think anyone mentioned you hating your life. My point was she knows NOTHING else.

If your telling me my personal aspiration didn't include being a mom first and foremost, you are quite right. I chose to be able to afford to raise a child and then made a choice to have a biological child. Somewhere along the road that turned into a bio child 4 steps and 2 that fled their parents. Oh fucking well. I did get to make those choices. The 15 year old fundy had no opportunity to explore any expectations that were different than what her father programed.

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No one here is picking on SAHMs. We are picking on arranged marriage for children.

It was hardly an arranged marriage.

http://wearinghispurity.blogspot.com/20 ... t-one.html

She specifically states that he asked her father and he did not say anything one way or another. She also states that she felt something for him before there was ever a hint of any kind of potential courtship, and that it was her choice whether to court or not, and her choice to accept his personal proposal or not.

And on the second charge of 15 being a child... I don't know how much I agree with that either. I've certainly met 15 year olds who are children. I've also met 15 year olds who are psychologically and intellectually better prepared for adult life better than many... well, legal adults. I was one of them, after all. I guess legal definitions have never mattered much to me.

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Why does someone have to be brainwashed to want to be a wife and mother and want to get married?

I don't usually like to openly challenge anyone here unless they're trolling, but it seems like there's a tendency here to think the ONLY right or acceptable way of life is to be a career woman, and MAYBE marry in the late-20's or 30's and have a kid on the side if there's time/desire. The underestimation and outright hostility to different orders or priorities in life and passing anyone off as stupid/incapable who doesn't do things "the right" way is just as bad as the fundies.

Iin my post I didn't mean that it was wrong to want to be a wife and mother but I mean, to have that choice picked out from such a young age without exploring other options is kind of scary. I also don't think anyone who wants to be a SAHM is stupid and incapable. Many that I know are happy in their lives. However , what differs them from this girl is that they didn't become SAHWs until they were absolutely sure that that was the way they wanted to go. Who knows if this is what Lauren wants or what she has been taught her whole life that she has to want (or else it is a sign of sin)? I just feel she didn't explore her options before making this decision.

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This is not some teenaged love story. The marriage was arranged by her father. She has two children not because she loves children, but because she is not allowed to use birth control or say no to sex. She does not even have a high school diploma; she was married just out of junior high. She is going through a phase in life where she should be discovering who she is, not trying to be a better helpmeet/second class citizen.

Fundies are great at keeping a smile even when they are miserable, so I don't really care how happy she seems.

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Lily I'm presuming you got to make these choices for yourself. You understood you had options. I doubt your life wasn't a little chess game of manipulation orchestrated by your father. Look at the differences. I don't think anyone mentioned you hating your life. My point was she knows NOTHING else.

If your telling me my personal aspiration didn't include being a mom first and foremost, you are quite right. I chose to be able to afford to raise a child and then made a choice to have a biological child. Somewhere along the road that turned into a bio child 4 steps and 2 that fled their parents. Oh fucking well. I did get to make those choices. The 15 year old fundy had no opportunity to explore any expectations that were different than what her father programed.

I wasn't telling you anything, whatever you inferred is your own.

Again, I'm not saying her situation is ideal. I'm just saying it's not inherently wrong just because it's different, or the Ms. Magazine way is the only right way.

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This is not some teenaged love story. The marriage was arranged by her father. She has two children not because she loves children, but because she is not allowed to use birth control or say no to sex. She does not even have a high school diploma; she was married just out of junior high. She is going through a phase in life where she should be discovering who she is, not trying to be a better helpmeet/second class citizen.

Fundies are great at keeping a smile even when they are miserable, so I don't really care how happy she seems.

How do you know she's not happy or that she didn't genuinely want children? Obviously how she was raised has an influence, and it's not one I agree with, but all of us are influenced by the way we were raised.

I just don't get why settling down young is so terrible. Not everyone wants to spend 10 years "discovering themselves" (which seems to translate to "jumping from one relationship to the next and partying as much as possible"). That's a pretty narrow view of what's okay and what the acceptable path of life is. Just as narrow as the fundies, really.

Aright, I'm going to respectfully bow out now. I know my views aren't appreciated and I don't appreciate some of your views, and I respect all of you otherwise, so I'm not going to burn my bridges any more. Agree to disagree.

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And no one has said anything bad about choosing to be a housewife, have they? I mean, I work from home, I have been a housewife. I think it is good for a woman to get an education and few marketable skills just in case she has to re-enter the workforce, and I think that a more mature person, whatever the age, is better than a less mature one.

Isn't this the bride whose husband thanked her dad publically for getting most of the spankings out of the way before marriage? The creepy never stops with these people. I don't care how much she rants about her immaculate house; the whole situation is fucked up.

No one said that she should spend a decade in casual sex and partying. I think she could have gotten an education and grew into her adult self without the pressures of a wife and mother. You can call it narrow to say a girl should have the legally minimal education and a sense of self before marriage, but you will sound rather foolish doing so.

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I wasn't telling you anything, whatever you inferred is your own.

Again, I'm not saying her situation is ideal. I'm just saying it's not inherently wrong just because it's different, or the Ms. Magazine way is the only right way.

FWIW I've never read Ms. Mag. I do know the my daughters all got to experience the real world, beach, friends, sleepovers, campouts, they were exposed to women and men that chose their roles in life. This girl never had the exposure. She was never raised to have her own life or aspirations outside her parents paradigms. Its likely anything outside the world her father created was demonized.

Hell even the Amish give their kids rumpspringa.

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10 years "discovering themselves" (which seems to translate to "jumping from one relationship to the next and partying as much as possible").

Who said anything like this? You're just... throwing things out there, responding to shit that hasn't even been said. The 'Ms. Magazine way,' as if that is really a thing that exists, much less something we've all secretly agreed upon.

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...

I just don't get why settling down young is so terrible. Not everyone wants to spend 10 years "discovering themselves" (which seems to translate to "jumping from one relationship to the next and partying as much as possible")...

So now we're at the meat of the matter. Kids who grow into their lives their own personhood translates into irresponsible sex and partying.

How the heck do you come up with this stuff?

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So now we're at the meat of the matter. Kids who grow into their lives their own personhood translates into irresponsible sex and partying.

How the heck do you come up with this stuff?

Because that's generally what it means, and what is implied by people who use it, even those who promote it. I didn't say irresponsible sex, just jumping from one relationship to another.

I just don't think that if someone doesn't spend 10 years experimenting before setting down, that it means that they're not a complete person or unfulfilled. Some are, some aren't. Youth doesn't necessarily mean that you don't know who you are or what you want, I guess is what I'm saying.

And by the Ms. Magazine reference, I didn't mean that people LITERALLY read it and emulated it, just the general lifestyle and priorities that are in line with their spiel.

Now that I've hopefully cleared that up, out.

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Because that's generally what it means, and what is implied by people who use it, even those who promote it. I didn't say irresponsible sex, just jumping from one relationship to another.

I just don't think that if someone doesn't spend 10 years experimenting before setting down, that it means that they're not a complete person or unfulfilled. Some are, some aren't.

You're still not responding to anything that has been said in this thread.

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