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Needing some Doug-and-Beall bio info...


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One of us recently mentioned that Beall Phillips has a law degree. Can anyone tell me from where, and when she earned it? Does the "esq" after Doug's name indicate that he has a law degree? And has he ever attended any kind of religious seminary?

Inquiring minds, who are bored at work and must resort to an iPhone for entertainment, want to know!

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I don't know whether Beall has a law degree. However, they went to William and Mary undergrad and I believe Doug got his law degree at George Mason U. I don't think Beall actually got a law degree, but I remember seeing somewhere that she attended classes at GMU.

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FWIW, Jen's Gems stated that Beall had an Education degree, but after looking at the W+M website, I found out that W + M doesn't offer an undergraduate degree in Education. It is offered as a "Secondary Major", however, so perhaps she has an Education plus something-else degree?

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FWIW, Jen's Gems stated that Beall had an Education degree, but after looking at the W+M website, I found out that W + M doesn't offer an undergraduate degree in Education. It is offered as a "Secondary Major", however, so perhaps she has an Education plus something-else degree?

Right: You have to major in a subject--anything from art to Spanish--and education becomes your second major.

I am so proud that Doug is an alum of both my undergrad and grad schools. NOT.

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:? Oof.

I totally hate when I'm inaccurate.

It was I who called Beall lawyer (not a pejorative, several of my very favorite people on earth are lawyers) and I suppose this is where I got it from:

Beall Phillips also has a bachelor’s degree in education from William and Mary College, where she met Doug. From there, she attended law school classes with Doug Phillips at George Mason. I understand she did quite well. I asked her once if she ever regretted her higher education and she said that God can use every experience we have in life. I am grateful for my degree and am currently studying (dare I say it?) to be a naturopath. Doug did tell me once that I would make a great lawyer; maybe I’ll take him up on that suggestion as well!

That is Jen Epstein on a Jen's Gems page

http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2006/12/1 ... ing-women/

I can't be sure, from the lack of punctuation, whether Jen is quoting herself or Beall here:

I am grateful for my degree and am currently studying (dare I say it?) to be a naturopath. Doug did tell me once that I would make a great lawyer; maybe I’ll take him up on that suggestion as well!

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. At least three of my former supervisors are slapping their foreheads (here or in Heaven). I now know of two inaccurarcies I've committed. The other regarding just who used the term "wage slave."

Gosh, Lutheran guilt is worse than I remember. :shifty:

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And has he ever attended any kind of religious seminary?

I've heard multiple people deny that Doug has any seminary training. Doug, on the other hand, will say that his father (who has no peer reviewed seminary training, either) educated him in the Word in a way that was probably better than most seminaries. Howard was converted from Judaism by Rousas J. Rushdoony of Chalcedon Foundation fame, so that must give Howard some kind of special insight into Scripture. It's like spiritual multigenrational faithfulness, and that makes Rush his grandfather in the faith.

Doug notes in his bio at VisionForumMinistries.org that some pastor in Virginia mentored him. Jen Epstien once wrote to me in a private communication and perhaps stated online as well that Doug claimed that BCA (the cultic church that Doug set up in Boerne after he left attendance at Grace OPC in San Antonio where I attended at the time) was a church plant of that Virginia church. It's called Sovereign Grace something or other but is not in any way affiliated with Sovereign Grace Ministries (of CJ Mahaney fame). Did he mentor him as a believer or as a minister/pastor? Doug does consider every male head of household to be their own priest, so he would not need formal training according to the dogma of the Family Integrated Church. Knowledge of the Word of God and meeting the Biblical qualifications for the office are the only things needed. And most local governments will recognize any religious group who validates an individual as such as a legitimate minister, so long as they follow government standards. Most require some registration with local government.

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Right: You have to major in a subject--anything from art to Spanish--and education becomes your second major.

That could have changed from when Beall would have attended. College programs for teachers have changed a lot even in recent years, as NCLB and the like have caused more focus on subject matter mastery before mastering the art of teaching :)

[FWIW i'm a teacher :) or was... :doh: ]

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Right: You have to major in a subject--anything from art to Spanish--and education becomes your second major.

I am so proud that Doug is an alum of both my undergrad and grad schools. NOT.

@darkplumaged - One positive about Doug going to your schools. You can probably look him up in the alumni databases and see what's listed. And I'd love to know if W&M claims Bill Potter as an alum!

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@darkplumaged - One positive about Doug going to your schools. You can probably look him up in the alumni databases and see what's listed. And I'd love to know if W&M claims Bill Potter as an alum!

Nothing interesting, unfortunately. I don't think I'm registered to use the GMU alumni site, so I didn't look there; Dougie isn't a registered member of the W&M site, so they don't have updated info on him. Both he and Beall do appear in my printed alumni directory from 2000; they were already living in Texas, but Dougie's job was listed as "Director of Government Affairs, National Center for Home Education" (which is in Virginia... I guess Dougie is so special he was allowed to move out of state and keep his job?), and Beall was a "teacher."

No listing for Bill Potter, far as I saw.

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And I'd love to know if W&M claims Bill Potter as an alum!

He did not graduate, and of that I'm sure. Some time ago, I found a bio for him on a website that sold books or something. It listed him as one of W&M's most promising graduate candidates. I think not, because the most promising ones are called "Doctor" because they finish. He didn't finish, so he would not be listed as an alum.

Some people who fled VF and thenonomy who used to go on the American history tours told me a long time ago that Potter's committee turned down his thesis proposal (on Stonewall Jackson, maybe?). I was not sure who they were talking about, but the name makes me think of a similar name that was familiar to me, and the name "Jackson" had just become popular which I found odd. I came in on the end of a conversation about Vision Forum, and it was some time ago, so I'm not sure. Hey, it's all hearsay anyway. I took that to mean that Potter finished his coursework, but for whatever reason, I assume that he did not pursue coming up with a new proposal on a different topic or with a different approach.

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Unless you're wondering if Potter had a master's from W&M. That I don't know. I do know that they turned down his PhD dissertation proposal.

Where does he claim that his MA is from? I only remember seeing the old bio with the "most promising doctoral candidate" comment and paid no attention to the rest.

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Unless you're wondering if Potter had a master's from W&M. That I don't know. I do know that they turned down his PhD dissertation proposal.

Where does he claim that his MA is from? I only remember seeing the old bio with the "most promising doctoral candidate" comment and paid no attention to the rest.

According this bio (theamericanhistoryguild.com/william-potter/), he received an MA from the University of Dayton.

According to an old blog entry of Dougie's (visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/2004/12/945/), this is what happened: "Incredibly principled in his theology and history, Bill was the top Ph.D. candidate with high ranking grades at the College of William and Mary, but was denied his Ph.D. by the Marxist history chairman (a former “Weatherman†radical at the University of Wisconsin) because of his overt Christian and Southern perspective on history."

Looks like he got booted before finishing his Ph.D. at W & M. Calling himself (or allowing himself to be called) an ABD, is a red flag for any academic.

ETA: Renewing my call (plea!) for any FJ-er with an inside track to the History Dept at W & M to find out what happened! Inquiring minds & snarking tongues want to know!

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I love how on LinkedIn, Potter initially describes himself as holding a PhD and only then gets around to admitting that he's actually only ABD, an unofficial academic rank that entitles you to pretty much nothing: linkedin.com/pub/bill-potter/9/484/8b1.

Yes, a doctor who doesn't know from disease!

So typical of these guys, with their fake military uniforms, fake history & fake lifestyles.

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I love how on LinkedIn, Potter initially describes himself as holding a PhD and only then gets around to admitting that he's actually only ABD, an unofficial academic rank that entitles you to pretty much nothing: linkedin.com/pub/bill-potter/9/484/8b1.

This and the cost of a Metrocard will get him a ride on the New York City subway.

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ETA: Renewing my call (plea!) for any FJ-er with an inside track to the History Dept at W & M to find out what happened! Inquiring minds & snarking tongues want to know!

I wasn't a history major, but I took several history classes during my time there. From what I can tell based on the website, the faculty has changed significantly since my student days--and I graduated in the late 90s. I imagine few, if any, professors from the Bill Potter era (the 70s? 80s?) are still around. We may never know the truth.

What am I saying? I'm sure the truth is that he was a scholar of unmatched brilliance, persecuted by eeeeevil Marxists. :whistle:

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Boy! Everyone who doesn't agree with Doug is some kind of Marxist. Except for Andrew Sandlin (former Reconstructionist- once writing its epitaph in the early 2000s). Doug called him a "cleric."

Part of the process of graduate school is the process of graduate school. You're there to get a degree. You're there to study and get credentials. The school has them, and you don't. If you need them, you pay them for the privilege of having the place at the school to learn them. If you want the degree, the burden is upon you to earn it.

Part of graduate school is the pecking order, especially in smaller programs and smaller schools. You learn as much about politics as you do about the subject. I struggled with this as an ultra fundie while I was in school, too --- at every level. I would get angry and act like I would be committing a sin if I put down an answer that I didn't agree with on a religious basis. I had three Cs as an undergrad, and two of them were in classes where I struggled with my belief system. I didn't understand (at the tender age of 17 and 18) that knowing the answer they wanted to earn your grade was part of the learning. I also didn't understand that putting that answer down on a test was NOT like denying your faith and telling the Romans that Caesar was God or that there were multiple Gods to avoid death by lions in the arena because you were secretly a Christian. All it does is prove that you don't have wisdom enough to choose the right battles. Even Daniel would comply with Nebuchadnezzar, if it didn't involve sin. W&M was not asking Potter to relinquish any belief system, but they were asking him to demonstrate via the peer review process that he could go through the necessary disciplines to earn a degree. Big surprise that someone who would later be a part of VF would end up avoiding accountability and "submission to authority."

I once had a professor tell me, "Never let learning get in the way of getting a good grade on a test." The thesis process is not "there for you." It's part of the abuse that you paid to take, almost like legal and proper hazing. A huge part of it is the way they treat graduate students -- like pond scum. You are like free labor, and the school could care less whether you graduate. Sometimes your major professor will steal your work, and they essentially "use" you to rack up publications to line their own CV. My husband's major professor once told my husband (when he complained that he was harder on him that his whole committee) that he wanted to "bust his balls" through the process. When dh asked why, the prof said that he wanted him to be tried and true by the time he graduated. My husband once worked like a nut filling out a huge NIH fellowship application (and already had publications related to the grant). When he went to his major professor to get him to write two paragraphs needed to submit it, and he said, "I'm too busy to do it now. Forget it." My husband got mad and said that he would leave the school. And what did the professor say to him? "Leave. No one cares." That's what a graduate student has to go through.

My other question is why Potter went to W&M if he indeed did focus on Stonewall Jackson or some other major "War of Northern Aggression" topic. UVA would be the better place to go. And probably at that time, Robertson was still teaching at Virginia Tech, one of the foremost experts on Stonewall Jackson. And my husband who took history electives with him as an undergraduate said that Robertson did not just focus on the military aspects but religiously taught the ideology of the South. He taught about Jackson's personal focus on integrity as well as how strongly his wife and his relationship with her influenced Jackson's own views on life. If you can stand to watch God's and Generals with the commentary turned on, Robertson is one of the guys that you hear talking throughout the film.

So all (abd) means is that the guy washed out. If he wanted to push some kind of "Anti-Marxist" agenda using his dissertation (which is foolish anyway), he would have been better served to do it at UVA or VA Tech, choosing a major professor who would have fought for him and worked the system of politics at the school to protect him so that he could graduate. You push your agendas after you get out. In medical school, there is an old, old joke that you hear: "What do you call the guy who graduates with the lowest grades from the most poorly ranked medical school in the country?" Doctor. You do what it takes, and you earn the credentials. You chase your windmills or fight battles of your own choosing after you've earned the degree.

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Well, certainly Dougie and Potter and all of their ilk shouldn't have to earn their stripes like the rest of us wage slaves, should they? They are speshul, after all. :roll:

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I was a history major at William and Mary as well as government and I never heard of Bill Potter and I was very tight with several professors. Nobody ever mentioned him in any way ever. Nor had I ever heard of Doug or Beall but at the time I was there it was possible to get an undergrad degree in education. Tribe Pride does not claim any of these people. I was on the alumni board and at the time I was on the board nobody was soliciting Doug or Beall.

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Great summary of grad school, Brainsample. That's about the size of the matter, whether or not one is a devout Christian or an ungodly Unitarian like me! As one of my graduate school professors remarked, "Graduate students are just cannon fodder for the internecine wars among graduate faculty/"

Re: Potter at W & M. I don't disbelieve the claim, on its face, that he was in the graduate history program at W & M, as unsuited as they seem for each other. It wouldn't be the first time that a graduate department made a mistake in admitting someone. Their ways of correcting such mistakes include what may have happened to Bill Potter, or a somewhat more genteel version, called the "terminal MA," given to someone who enrolls in a Ph.D. program as a B.A., but is then found not to cut it. They are quietly but firmly not allowed to continue after receiving the master's degree.

PS - Not to threadjack, but I was wondering, Brainsample, what you might know of David Alan Black at SEBTS. You had mentioned him once in connection with an agrarian movement. From what I've seen on his blog, he used to be more overtly a supporter of League of the South type things (judging from his links), and at one point even linked to/mentioned Harry Seabrook. That stuff seems to have gone away .

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I like to think of a terminal MA as a parting gift for contestants on the game show of graduate school, but with the current state of the academic job market (at least in the humanities), the real losers may be those students who finish their degrees still hoping that a permanent, tenure-track position is out there for them somewhere.

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Wow! Scary description of the post-graduate world in the US. Is it that cut-throat everywhere in the States? It sounds a bit wet, but I can honestly describe members of the department/faculty where my son did his Masters and Doctorate as nurturing. Some of them in their own "interesting" ways maybe, but all really concerned with the success and development of their graduate students. My son speaks of many of them with genuine affection.

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