Does Josie Duggar appear to have marked cognitive delays?

[nutella addict]

Yeah, I've read a lot of deaf child studies as well, and without a diagnosis and sign language, a hearing aid, or a cochlear implant by puberty, language will generally not develop normally. However, the lost girls are still young, and while I don't doubt that their language is at least a little delayed, I don't believe it's actually cause for alarm or leading to a noticeable, permanent speech problem. I am really only worried for Josie because she has so many risk factors as it is and I'm not sure that JB&M are paying any attention to the fact that she should really have early intervention anyway.

I still would, if Jordyn were my own daughter, get her evaluated just in case, if indeed she talks as poorly and little as she seems to on the show. Jennifer too, since she's now 4 and most 3-year-olds I know seem to talk a little better, but again some kids are just a little slower, but catch up later. Only without proper school, I don't know about that. I wish she had more talking heads, but they only tried to put her with Jackson and Hannie a couple times as far as I know (which I do actually like, as the two of them are cute/funny, but it would be nice to hear Jennifer (and Jordyn, really) speak more often so I could have a more informed opinion...).

[JumpingtheSnark]

I think it premature to speculate on language delays of the lost girls. Their expressive language may lag, but their receptive may be quite good.

[apple1]

There is a wide, varied range of development for all little kids, and you just can't tell. It doesn't matter in the long run when they learn to walk or talk, so long that they do. Most do.

Red: I agree with this.

Blue: Not necessarily. It is a problem when one developmental delay adds to another developmental delay adds to another, etc. This can turn into a situation where eventually the sum of all the delays really cannot be reversed.

I personally am concerned about Josie's future. Even kids who have all the parental attention and professional evaluation in the world can need extra help. Learning disabilities, once the child starts school, are more prevalent in kids who were preemies. This requires recognition, intervention, and parental involvement and advocacy to get the child what is needed. I just don't see this happening, especially now that it appears that Josie will be shunted off to her "buddy" and that her "education" will most likely occur at SOTDRT. And we have already seen that much of the "education" at their SOTDRT is being done by the older girls. This whole thing actually ought to fall under child negligence or something of the sort.

Actually, the more I type on this subject, the angrier it makes me.

[Kitchen Princess]

Yes but we're talking about a large family where the kids get plenty of input and stimulation, and the family at least has a modicum of interest in making sure the kids are educated. There is no evidence that the two younger girls above Josie are delayed in anyway. You can't tell that from a 30 minute show in which they have 3 seconds of face time. None of the other kids in that age group have speech impediments, and they can string sentences together to form a cogent thought. I simply think it's too soon to tell.

[takers401]

I wonder if Jennifer and Jordyn are a little behind in speech because their siblings talk so much for them, so there's not a need for them to speak as much? My parents were worried a bit about how long it took my sister to talk because they said I kept "interpreting" for her so she didn't need to speak herself.

[BlondeAgent007]

okay so I only read through about half of the thread, but I have some ponderings of my own by now that I hope have not been answered.

The duggars claimed in an episode to be teaching Josie sign language. They said they did this with all of the kids but I don't remember any Duggar kids knowing sign language, do you? I think they were using it in reference to when Josie was hungry, the details I don't know. But i found it either on demand or on online available clips. She was using sign language to indicate hunger. In my experience, children with delays are taught sign language in case large visual cues are easier than hearing cues because of a lag in development. Don't they normally try to teach sign language to developmentally delayed children early in case verbal language is not a possibility? It seemed odd to me.

I would think also the reason none of the youngest girls are in speech therapy is that it takes a lot of time between the parents, the child, and the therapist to complete speech therapy. I had a bad stutter and went for two years. How can they have a progress report with a sister of a child who takes care of 4 other kids??

[godlytomatosoup]

I've definitely heard of non-delayed kids being taught baby sign. They can learn it earlier than speech because you get gross motor control before finer motor control, so hands are easier than tongue and larynx. Which cuts down on frustration from not being able to communicate (but increases frustration from being able to communicate but just not getting what they want! :D ) I have no idea if the Duggars did that, but it's not totally out there.

[CynicMom]

Both my (normal) kids signed. It's totally awesome. Now... that said my kids signed a LOT to let you know when/what they wanted and we have YET to see any Duggar kids sign. I'm thinking it's more like "we showed the kids a sign and had their hands copy the movements once so we are up-to-date with modern parenting!"

[lilwriter85]

I have relative who taught his non-delayed child a bit of sign language.

I think maybe the Duggars have been advised to teach Josie sign. I also agree with others, Jordyn and Jennifer might have speech problems that Jim Bob and Michelle are ignoring or things that the J'Slaves haven't caught onto.

[MrsYoungie]

Yes but we're talking about a large family where the kids get plenty of input and stimulation, and the family at least has a modicum of interest in making sure the kids are educated. There is no evidence that the two younger girls above Josie are delayed in anyway. You can't tell that from a 30 minute show in which they have 3 seconds of face time. None of the other kids in that age group have speech impediments, and they can string sentences together to form a cogent thought. I simply think it's too soon to tell.

This entire forum is based on over-analyzing 3 seconds worth of face time! It's what we do. LOL

[gustava]

This entire forum is based on over-analyzing 3 seconds worth of face time! It's what we do. LOL

Moreover, chaos may be considered input and stimulation, but not in the positive category. Nor have we heard much from the howler monkeys.

[Mommy22alyns]

I've definitely heard of non-delayed kids being taught baby sign. They can learn it earlier than speech because you get gross motor control before finer motor control, so hands are easier than tongue and larynx. Which cuts down on frustration from not being able to communicate (but increases frustration from being able to communicate but just not getting what they want! :D ) I have no idea if the Duggars did that, but it's not totally out there.

Yep, I taught my oldest a couple of baby signs before she started talking. She knew that "milk" sign really well! :lol:

[Witsec5]

Parents have been teaching their babies to sign for years; especially when studies showed that babies have the ability to communicate well before their oral motor skills allow them to form spoken words. However, I don't think the Duggars have taught their other children to sign and there has always been a push to teach children with disabilities to sign. A lot of teachers of severely handicapped youngsters know sign for that reason.

Some severely handicapped kids learn a few signs, can give rough approximations of them so they can be understood, and then sometimes regress and forget what they've learned. I really hope Josie is not in that category and that she is normal in every way.

[Feberin]

My 20 month old son knows a few signs and loves learning more. We have an app for the ipad where it shows a animated baby doing the sign and saying the word. He loves it and sometimes tries the sign other times he says the word. He won't tell us "all done" when he's finished eating but he'll sign it, which beats his previous approach of throwing all his food on the floor.

[Witsec7]

We were signing in '85.

[emmiedahl]

I taught one of my kids baby sign, but I lost motivation there.

Some children with developmental delays are taught sign because they are expected to be delayed in language. It is easier to sign, so they can communicate earlier. This prevents a lot of behavioral problems that sometimes come up with special needs children. Also, some children with disabilities have physiological differences that make talking difficult. My foster sister with DS discussed on another thread used some sign because her tongue was formed in a way that made her speech difficult to understand.

[bekkah]

I was taught sign to cut down on my frustration. I didn't speak till I was 3 and half, EI suggested using sign so I picked it up quickly and my parents were proud that I could do it. It's like a kid saying their first word and they worked with me. That's what you need to do with developmentally delayed kids is spend lots of time. I always suspected my parents did not have another kid because of my delays and I turned out to be smart and able to go to college. I think that is what Josie is missing, she has too many siblings and her parents aren't educated enough to realize the benefit.

[bananacat]

I read a long time ago that normal babies will pick up on language as long as they are exposed to it in some way, even if no one ever talks directly to them. So I don't think Jennie's and Jordyn's delays are caused by neglect. I do think they have some other problem that is interfering though, and it still their parents' fault for not noticing and not helping to correct it.

[Patsy]

Seriously, even if the younger kids are treated in a way matching up to the worst possible speculations, that would not be enough to make them not learn language. If that were the case, language would not be the near universal that it is.

As it is, cases like Genie's probably usually come around because of compounding factors - it's not just being locked away for years (that's solitary isolation, not not being engaged very often), there's speculation that a lot of these kids end up being abused and neglected so badly because of other things going on in the family, and autism and other conditions in the child, so you can't take their language development as being the generic 'what happens when kids get locked up for five years'.