Does Josie Duggar appear to have marked cognitive delays?

[Chrystal-J]

My 4 year old gets his therapy at an evil public school. We have to be careful of all the atheist worldviews embedded in the preschool curriculum though. :lol:

My son was speech delayed and got a lot of help in public school (from the age of 4 on). It's such a shame that fundies are so anti-public school. There's so much help out there. But, I guess if you're never gonna leave the nest--what's the point of learning how to speak properly? All you're gonna do is take care of the younger kids, then your parents until they die. And to do that you only need to be able to listen (and take orders), not speak. It's probably preferable that you don't ever speak.

[longskirtlotsakids]

As long as her uterus works and she can open a can, she is a fully functioning Duggar. Why would they care if she can even read? Her highest calling is to be a brood sow anyway.

[kathteach]

I can't comment on her cognitive skills but as the mom of a preemie his milestones and weight/height were still being compared to his adjusted age until age 3.

[gilora]

As long as her uterus works and she can open a can, she is a fully functioning Duggar. Why would they care if she can even read? Her highest calling is to be a brood sow anyway.

I totally agree.

I also think that if Josie has problems Jim Bob and Michelle will never admit it. They won't give up on the idea that Josie was god's little miracle just for them and that her problems can't be prayed away.

[ADoyle90815]

I've posted about my cousin who was a preemie, but he had therapy from the evil public school district from the age of 4 at the earliest. Today, he's a contributing member of society who has worked in the same job for several years, in spite of the recession we've been in. Unfortunately, I don't think Josie is getting the help she needs, and probably won't since for a female in that family, all that matters is that she'll be able to help clean and that her uterus works so she could become a future brood mare.

[Trynn]

I've posted about my cousin who was a preemie, but he had therapy from the evil public school district from the age of 4 at the earliest. Today, he's a contributing member of society who has worked in the same job for several years, in spite of the recession we've been in. Unfortunately, I don't think Josie is getting the help she needs, and probably won't since for a female in that family, all that matters is that she'll be able to help clean and that her uterus works so she could become a future brood mare.

Would being a micropreemie affect whether or not she could have children? /ignorance.

[Hane]

I think that the biggest reason why Jordyn is speech delayed is that the adults never talk to her alone. Same thing could be happening to Josie.

Bingo. The early-childhood teachers among my family and friends consistently say that they can readily identify children who have never been actively spoken with at home. These kids don't have parents or caregivers who take the time to engage them or converse one-on-one with them, so the poor littles start school with speech and socialization delays. As one kindergarten teacher put it, "I've met children who start school not even knowing that objects have names." :'(

[starfish]

Good grief, the Duggars refuse to vaccinate their children. No way they are getting some type of occupational/speech therapy for one of their kids.

We all know that speech and occupational therapies inevitably involve some type of cells from aborted fetuses, not to mention reciting feminist literature, reading from New International Version of the Bible and learning evolution.

Josie will get all the therapy she needs on the endless visits to the Bates, etc.

[luckylibrarian]

Would being a micropreemie affect whether or not she could have children? /ignorance.

I'm sure all micropreemies are different, and I'm not a doctor, so take this with a grain of salt. I was a micropreemie (26 weeks, 1 lb 14 oz in 1981) and I never had fertility issues. When I got pregnant, I was worried about that I would be at a greater risk of having a preemie or micropreemie, and my doctor reassured me that I wasn't at any greater risk than anyone else.

[haveapicniclife]

Jordyn is almost 3? I'm blown away by that. She and Jennifer seem so much younger to me. Both of those girls are just lost in the shuffle.

[Olive Plant]

This whole thread reminds me of a visit I made several years ago to the home of a fundie family in a rural Utah area. There were five children aged 9 and below, homeschooled by a super-submissive mother who appeared to be silent the vast majority of the time. Their dad hated Mormons, so they were barely allowed to go outside. All of them, even the 9-year-old, had the exact same speech impediments and the vocabulary of a normal 5-year-old, because they pretty much only talked to each other. I don't think they were naturally stupid, but they were literally socially and linguistically retarded by their surroundings. One of the girls had cavities in her front teeth, too, which her parents did not appear to notice.

[thoughtful]

It's such a shame that fundies are so anti-public school. There's so much help out there. But, I guess if you're never gonna leave the nest--what's the point of learning how to speak properly? All you're gonna do is take care of the younger kids, then your parents until they die. And to do that you only need to be able to listen (and take orders), not speak. It's probably preferable that you don't ever speak.

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[Stanley]

This whole thread reminds me of a visit I made several years ago to the home of a fundie family in a rural Utah area. There were five children aged 9 and below, homeschooled by a super-submissive mother who appeared to be silent the vast majority of the time. Their dad hated Mormons, so they were barely allowed to go outside. All of them, even the 9-year-old, had the exact same speech impediments and the vocabulary of a normal 5-year-old, because they pretty much only talked to each other. I don't think they were naturally stupid, but they were literally socially and linguistically retarded by their surroundings. One of the girls had cavities in her front teeth, too, which her parents did not appear to notice.

The Arndt family children definitely have a shared speech impediment problem due to their isolated home-school environment. Here's an example:

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[SunnyAndrsn]

Josie's adjusted age would be right around 18-19 months. I do think she's still behind, although it's not that unusual that she isn't talking that much with all the big kids around her. However, my biggest concern is that she still requires oxygen. This just tells me how vulnerable she remains to infection, not to mention life long pulmonary disease.

[takers401]

Good grief, the Duggars refuse to vaccinate their children. No way they are getting some type of occupational/speech therapy for one of their kids.

We all know that speech and occupational therapies inevitably involve some type of cells from aborted fetuses, not to mention reciting feminist literature, reading from New International Version of the Bible and learning evolution.

Josie will get all the therapy she needs on the endless visits to the Bates, etc.

We know they've vaccinated Josie, but do we know whether they've vaxed the other kids or not? I don't really look at the lack of chicken pox vaccine as a good indication that they aren't vaccinating the rest of the kids as so many people (pro-vax included) don't vaccinate for that one.

And I'm totally tired as I just got the sarcasm of your second statement. At first I was "how does OT involve aborted fetuses?" o_0 Glad I finally caught up to the train of thought on that one.

I do find it interesting that we hear nothing about Josie's therapy or lack-there-of when we hear so much about everything else. In looking at Samuel Pope (the other premie baby featured on the show when Josie was still in the hospital) he still has so many therapies and other premie-related issues that it'd be hard to believe that Josie doesn't have some remaining issues. Why they wouldn't show her getting help on those when they show so many other things just doesn't make sense.

[nutella addict]

In my experience with kids the younger ones are most likely to not get enough conversation time, but that doesn't mean all will be severely delayed, or even delayed past kindergarten. With regard to the Arndts, I'm not surprised - children have their parents' accents as a general rule, until they go to school and all begin to speak like each other, but these fundie kids never did that, nor do they have enough of a community most of the time to speak like the community. The Duggars had a more noticeable accent and worse grammar in the early episodes, I'm guessing exposure to the outside world through the show helped there.

I'd also like to point out that all delays around Josie's age don't necessarily lead to long term troubles, although sadly in Josie's case I fear she might be heading that way. I posted on another thread, but wasn't she having swallowing trouble at one of her filmed doctor's appointments, where Michelle spent more time on her phone (to her credit, she was showing a video of the trouble to the doctor for some of that time) than paying attention to her miracle baby? If so, that heightens her risk for a speech disorder or impediment even more than it is for her being premature. She should be in early intervention but I doubt she is.

And if I were their parents, I would want to get all the youngest girls after Hannie tested, because even though it could be a normal, mild delay (some kids do just speak later and it doesn't mean anything), it could also be a type of SLI which would require help.

[silvia]

The Arndt family children definitely have a shared speech impediment problem due to their isolated home-school environment. Here's an example:

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Wow, this video is sobering. While it's sometimes comforting to think these cloistered kids may be able to make their own life choices at a certain point, the speech impediments suggest that the disadvantages accompanying this lifestyle arrive early, are deeply entrenched, and are not easily reversed.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Not having heard the Arndts before, I'm stunned at the severity of their speech impediments. I could barely understand them. Please, someone tell me English is their second language or that they're from some remote area and are speaking in a lesser-known dialect!

[annalena]

Good point about Jennifer, Jordyn, Josie.

Jennifer should be talking by now. Like, full sentences!

Jordyn is almost 3 ? I mean, that does make sense, since Josie is almost 2, but she just doesn't make that impression. It's really like 2 toddlers and a baby, versus 2 preschoolers and a toddler, like someone stated before.

Josie just seems so fragile and tiny. I think she still needs extra care (or would need extra care if they gave it to her).

[Sola]

I can't comment on her cognitive skills but as the mom of a preemie his milestones and weight/height were still being compared to his adjusted age until age 3.

Yep same here. My daughter was about the same gestation and weight as Josi. All her development checks were age adjusted to take that into account.

I've not seen that much of Josi, but her eyes concern me. I wonder if she has any retinopathy of prematurity like my daughter has. I've not heard her speak, but then I've not heard Jennifer and Jordyn speak either and that does concern me!

Josi has walked earlier than my daughter did and she doesn't seem to have any of the tremors and spasticity that my daughter has. But whether she has any cognitive issues remains to be seen.

[Trynn]

Of course the younger ones don't need to speak much. With the older girls whose job it is to anticipate their every need, why would they need to?

[MamaJunebug]

Not having heard the Arndts before, I'm stunned at the severity of their speech impediments. I could barely understand them. Please, someone tell me English is their second language or that they're from some remote area and are speaking in a lesser-known dialect!

They are a couple hours from an area I'm very familiar with: A village of about 500 people on the Mississippi River floodplain, the closest attraction a reconstructed fort from the 1600s/1700s -- and most of the village children I've heard speak, there, speak the same way as do most of us who travel through there en route to the history place.

Of course, those children go to public or parochial schools, attend church in a building specifically designated for worship services and interact with other people.

I love listening to different accents and trying to identify where folks are from (Southern USA accents are fascinating in their diversity). Hearing the Arndt boys "tawk wi eash othder an theyre pawrencs behin da cameras" I don't believe there is any accent but the one normally found in Southern Illinois (where the Arndts live), and AFAWK their parents' first language is English. This leaves some kind of family predisposition or hearing impairment.

Mr. Arndt, at least, works as a court reporter or manages a business in court reporting. They've even shown still photos of crossing the Mississippi River to attend legal proceedings as part of their business. And two of the boys appeared on a local TV news show to promote the Fam Team Softball Game, and were perfectly understandable.

But recalling that, there was the uncomfortable video of the grown son with alopecia bouncing up and down in glee as he saw his brothers appear on the huge-screen TV in the Fam Team fam room. I'm guessing hearing impairments as well as what others have guessed: A "Nell"-like dialect and basic social awkwardness that comes from a lifetime of knowing, really, only one way of life. I mean, most young men of Alopecia's age would've fist-pumped or just hollered for the family to come watch. "Alo's" bouncing is like that of a 10- or 11-year-old, max.

[vicka]

my son was born when josie was supposed to be born, a few days difference. he is turning 2 soon.

he speaks in sentences (short and incorrect ones, but still), builds with blocks which he can counts to twenty (thanks nick junior... yes i know tv is bad but it helps assuage my guilt), he can get a t-shirt over his own head and he puts away his shoes at the end of the day. he talks back to me and and my husband (not my favorite feature of him growing up)... and can get his own snacks from the fruit bowl. in short, he is about a year ahead of her developmentally. i look at josie, and i think to myself that she is in for a lifetime of struggle. the fact that they were supposed to be born around the same week makes it abundantly clear to me that she is behind. poor little baby.

her quality of life would be significantly improved if she could get the right therapy. i really hope that she is... after all they have an outside music teacher come in. why not a nice christian occupational therapist? one can only hope.

[browngrl]

It is hard to tell if Josie is delayed based on the small amount of time we see her on screen. The obvious answer is : if your child is at risk of developmental delay either through illness, prematurity,parental concern etc then get a proper assessment from a developmental specialist. If she were my child I would take her for a proper assessment and then follow through on the treatments suggested. I guess the Duggars would prefer to rely on God instead.

[LeatherCouch]

In the last episode, where they go to Europe, as they are getting ready to leave there is a baby in a bouncer in the background. It looked like Josie to me, but I can't be sure. IIRC the baby was bouncing and clapping/flapping her arms. It was something you would see from a baby that is 6-10 months old. Does anyone know if that was Josie for sure?