Out of the Ortho Box Discussion of Emotions and Social Justi

[longskirts]

I just came across this conversation in the comments on Out of the Ortho Box. I think I agree with anon. I just can't imagine seeing genocide, slavery, etc. and feeling only positive emotions.

 

http://outoftheorthobox.blogspot.com/20 ... l#comments

 

 

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Anonymous said...

 

Some negativity spurs change. A total lack of being upset means no social justice movements, for example.

November 14, 2011 10:27 PM

Ruchi Koval said...

 

Some negativity spurs change the way some people who drive irresponsibly emerge safely. That doesn't make it good, nor spur optimal results.

 

Social justice emerges most beautifully when spurred by positive, constructive emotion. That said, one can certainly use a second-rate emotion for the good. That doesn't make it anything to strive towards, nor suggest there aren't better ways to accomplish the goal.

November 14, 2011 11:02 PM

Anonymous said...

 

Please give some historical examples of significant social justice movements spurred exclusively by positive, constructive emotions. I find myself uninformed. Thanks.

November 15, 2011 12:38 AM

Ruchi Koval said...

 

They are rare, since your average human doesn't even know there's a better way. I'm no history buff, but I'll give you some Jewish examples:

Abraham. Rabbi Y Salanter's mussar movement. The Hassidic movement. The Beth Jacob movement.

Many, many NGOs are formed due to sympathy for others Ans the desire to make a difference.

November 15, 2011 7:29 AM

[Beeks]

Wow, I agree with Anon and to me that is the more traditional Jewish perspective anyway. I was always taught (and have also read on ortho sites like Aish) that ALL emotions/feelings/urges/etc are actually good - it's just when we have an excess of something that it can be bad. So yeah you might have a feeling of anger at seeing social injustice, but that feeling is actually a good thing if it spurs you to push for change. Maybe Ruchi is saying "negative" meaning "an excess" - for instance, you feel anger and fly into a destructive rage instead of doing something good.

[longskirts]

That's also what I had heard about excess being bad. I don't think that's what Ruchi is saying though because in the post, she says, "Every single time someone is upset, offended, annoyed".

[Beeks]

That's also what I had heard about excess being bad. I don't think that's what Ruchi is saying though because in the post, she says, "Every single time someone is upset, offended, annoyed".

She says every time someone is upset, etc., it's a mussar issue, which I agree with. Every time we're upset or annoyed, we have the opportunity to learn something and turn those feelings into something positive. I dunno, does she ever post here? I'd be interested to hear her explain a bit more but I don't feel like commenting on her blog.

[longskirts]

She defines mussar as not just learning from emotions, but refining character traits. Sorry, I just can't agree that someone needs to refine her character traits every time she gets the slightest bit annoyed. Some negative emotions are normal and healthy.

[Beeks]

She defines mussar as not just learning from emotions, but refining character traits. Sorry, I just can't agree that someone needs to refine her character traits every time she gets the slightest bit annoyed. Some negative emotions are normal and healthy.

I just don't think that's exactly what she means. Ortho Jews don't have the whole "keep sweet" thing going on that fundie Christians have. I'm going to email her and clarify. I'd love to take a Mussar class but I never have, so I'm not sure if she's saying that in an ideal world we should never experience even the slightest annoyance, or if she's just saying that in an ideal world when we experienced that annoyance we'd turn it towards the good. I'll let you know if she responds. =)

[longskirts]

Some Orthodox Jews do view "keeping sweet" as an ideal. I think you'll find that philosophy on plenty of Orthodox blogs (although perhaps this particular blogger does not agree with it). I am *not* saying all Orthodox Jews think that way as there is a lot of diversity within Orthodoxy.

[Beeks]

Some Orthodox Jews do view "keeping sweet" as an ideal. I think you'll find that philosophy on plenty of Orthodox blogs (although perhaps this particular blogger does not agree with it). I am *not* saying all Orthodox Jews think that way as there is a lot of diversity within Orthodoxy.

That's true - I've just never heard it really. I guess the whole "it's a mitzvah to be happy!" thing is the ortho equivalent of "keep sweet."

[longskirts]

People will often use the term "aidel" (refined) rather than "sweet". Just search "aidel" on imamother.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't think it's a traditional Jewish approach to constantly be sweet and unaffected by trouble in the real world. Quite frankly, Jews didn't really have that luxury.

Instead, I was taught about turning general negative attitudes around (for example, if you tend to complain about others, looking first at yourself), and using negative events as a catalyst for positive changes (such as by developing empathy for others in difficult situations).