YourSacredCalling - Modesty

[annalena]

yoursacredcalling.com/blog/2011/08/modesty-fosters-friendships/

I remember one friend whose husband struggled with pornography. In tears one day, she shared with me how she didn’t even want to go to church anymore (at least not with her husband) unless they were able to sit on the front row. She said she was tired of catching her husband staring at the backsides of the girls in skin tight jeans in front of them (this particular mega church had a huge problem with immodesty – almost as big as her husband’s lust problem).

Sadly, even when they sat on the front row, they had to look up the skirts of the choir members on stage when they sat down. For a woman struggling in this type of marriage it was torture. But, nobody seemed concerned about her. If she complained to leadership she would have likely been called judgmental or legalistic.

Of course, this husband was totally responsible for his own sin. In fact, my friend wound up divorced; but, that isn’t the point. In fact, the point isn’t my friend’s husband at all. The point is that my friend was hurt, not only by the wandering eye of her own husband, but by her many sisters in Christ who gave him such ample opportunity, and who should have known better.

She can NOT be serious!!

RAGE.

Okay.

1. He "struggles" with pornography. Meaning, he sometimes likes to look at good picture or movie, I assume. Nothing wrong with that in the first place. Sexuality is healthy.

2. The OTHER WOMEN should take care?! Really? Can they read her mind?? Can she ask everyone to dress modestly because his eyes are wandering?

Hell, let him look. It's not like he's gonna be hurt or something.

3. A woman gives a man an "opportunity" (to LOOK!) and should have known better?! Really?? All male sexual activity, starting with looks, is triggered by slutty dressing women? Because men don't have their own mind? Don't they have a brain to think?

Ok lady, think about this. Unfortunately, it's true for so many women. Imagine you catch your husband cheating. In your bed. With another woman that you don't know. It's HIM who's cheating on you!! Likely, a lot of women tend to go off about "that slut". HE doesn't deserve your trust!

[fundiefan]

She is serious, we know that. If my friend's husband stares at my ass, it is totally my fault.

I wonder who's fault it is, though, when I stare at my friend's husband's ass? I won't lie, I have some friends with some pretty hot looking men in their lives.

[Paisy]

I don't know how most women are but I do know that if my husband didn't like looking at naked girls I'd be kind of worried.

[doggie]

so the worlds woman population has to dress so hubby's roaming eye is controlled? How does that work anyway notices in newspapers where hubby will be traveling that day so all woman can be modest?

[changemanagement]

Hrmm..

This works in reverse. Everyday I am surrounded by men in uniforms. Crisp clean shirts showing their biceps, creased pants hugging those muscular thighs and caressing those succulent buttocks, their after shave gently wafting through the room. Shame on them :eusa-naughty:

Those men have no respect for my husband. Tempting me like that.

SHAME!! :angry-nono:

[annalena]

She is serious, we know that. If my friend's husband stares at my ass, it is totally my fault.

I wonder who's fault it is, though, when I stare at my friend's husband's ass? I won't lie, I have some friends with some pretty hot looking men in their lives.

:mrgreen: I bet it's yours. But don't you know you're not supposed to do that because you're not supposed to have sexual desire as a woman, duh?

Honestly, this is a little TMI, but yesterday at the bar I caught myself staring at two pretty good looking lesbians and couldn't help but wonder how their night would end. :mrgreen:

My boyfriend is the best looking in his friends and my friends' boyfriends though. So if, really, I stare at him. :) But who doesn't like a little eyecandy in the subway, or in the mall, for example?

[annalena]

Hrmm..

This works in reverse. Everyday I am surrounded men in uniforms. Crisp clean shirts showing their biceps, creased pants hugging those muscular thighs and caressing those succulent buttocks, their after shave gently wafting through the room. Shame on them :eusa-naughty:

Those men have no respect for my husband. Tempting me like that.

SHAME!! :angry-nono:

Damn, that does sounds tempting :lol: :twisted:

[JesusFightClub]

So wearing jeans is causing hubby to sin, wearing skirts is causing hubby to sin, know what? THE EXISTENCE OF WOMEN is causing hubby to sin, and I venture to suggest if all the women in the world were wearing burqas, she'd be complaining about suggestive hip rolls.

This is totally exasperating. Friend's hubby has a seriously wandering eye and a dismissive reference to his problem followed by a huge amount of blaming women for daring to walk the face of the earth is what she posts. How about the husband learns to look away if he's getting aroused? to channel the thoughts towards his wife and they have a good session later? to recite football scores or Presidential dates in his head? Or, I dunno, concentrate on church stuff?

[annalena]

Honestly. If all women were to wear u burqas, would rape and abuse suddenly vanish? I don't think so.

Husband also does not only go to church, I assume. Even if all women were to dress modest there, what about work. Supermarket. Gas station. Library. Hell,you can't shelter yourself that much!

[gezykah]

http://yoursacredcalling.com/blog/2011/08/modesty-fosters-friendships/

Did Larry Flynt design the choir robes when he was Evangelical? Where exactly are they going to church where the choir members wear skirts that short? Even my old catholic school uniforms weren't that bad. This whole article is a really bad attempt to blame women for the behavior of men.

[alysee]

Nothing new in fundie world. All I can do is shake my head. Why is anyone else responsible for anyone else's actions and "transgressions".

It's better than the thinking I grew up with, which was Eve ate the apple so she was weak and tempted so men should cover up to not tempt us. And men are weaker now thanks to modern society and there affinity for showing their skin.

[doggie]

I think a lot of the blame on other woman is to hide from the jealousy and to not face up to what hubby is doing.

[Austin]

Stacy McDonald is a world-class twit.

[JesusFightClub]

Honestly. If all women were to wear u burqas, would rape and abuse suddenly vanish? I don't think so.

Husband also does not only go to church, I assume. Even if all women were to dress modest there, what about work. Supermarket. Gas station. Library. Hell,you can't shelter yourself that much!

Exactly, if he sees a woman in shorts walking down the street does he have to run and throw himself in a lake to drown the raging fire between his legs?

Also, why did he tell her that the women in the church were causing him to have sexual thoughts? Was that not a bit of a rebuke to her, like saying "well they are much sexier than you..."? Surely any decent person would keep thoughts about sex with others to themselves if they knew it would upset their partner.

[MamaJunebug]

Another very good reason to keep the choir and organist upstairs in the choir loft in back of the church!

Srsly! Until the advent of the (dreaded - JMHO) guitar masses and suchlike, Lutheran, Catholic and AFAIK Episcopalian churches almost always had the choir and organist in a loft. Upstairs. Unseen by the congregants, who attention instead was on the altar (Sacramental), the cross (obviously!) and the preacher delivering the sermon.

But hey, a friend went with me to my church for the first time and was insulted that the choir was out of sight. "Get them down here in front where they belong!" she snapped. :lol:

[SunnyAndrsn]

The sexual dysfunction is so sad! I'm talking about the women, not the man.

I admit, I'm a bit skeptical about a porn addiction. At what point does it become an addiction? How about the reasons behind why a man (it's almost always men) are driving to spend an unusual amount of time thinking about sex and watching porn.

Is it because they have no other outlet for their lusts and they are made to feel shameful...hmmm...

[ThisOlGirl]

The whole "struggling with pornography" thing is what gets me. The fundie version of porn and porn addiction seems to be vague and broad at the same time (does that even make sense?). These are people that consider Victoria's Secret and Maxim to be porn, so I have to wonder what the headship was really gettin' up to. Did he get caught looking through some one's SI Swimsuit Issue, or does he forgo sex with his wife in favor of whackin' to his favorite adult movie? If it's the latter, then I would consider that a problem. But it's a problem between a husband and wife. Not a problem between a wife, her husband and every female member of their church.

[emmiedahl]

One of the benefits of being bisexual is that DH and I can both enjoy the view. I can't imagine telling him not to be attracted to an attractive woman, but that is mainly because I am attracted to them as well.

I also wonder about the nature of this porn. My stepsons had subscriptions to Maxim and the like, which definitely have women in a state of undress, and when my house was full of teenaged boys I had to order online from VS because the catalogs would disappear. That is normal. If the guy is spending hours on the computer looking at depraved junk to the detriment of our own sex life, that would be a completely different story.

Either way, it has nothing to do with the manner in which other people dress. Like I said, if a woman is highly attractive, bully for her. And dh. And me.

[Mommy22alyns]

Hrmm..

This works in reverse. Everyday I am surrounded by men in uniforms. Crisp clean shirts showing their biceps, creased pants hugging those muscular thighs and caressing those succulent buttocks, their after shave gently wafting through the room. Shame on them :eusa-naughty:

Those men have no respect for my husband. Tempting me like that.

SHAME!! :angry-nono:

Woohoo! I want to come work with you! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, it's every other woman's fault that the man has roving eyes? The fuck??

[fundiefan]

The whole "struggling with pornography" thing is what gets me. The fundie version of porn and porn addiction seems to be vague and broad at the same time (does that even make sense?). These are people that consider Victoria's Secret and Maxim to be porn, so I have to wonder what the headship was really gettin' up to. Did he get caught looking through some one's SI Swimsuit Issue, or does he forgo sex with his wife in favor of whackin' to his favorite adult movie? If it's the latter, then I would consider that a problem. But it's a problem between a husband and wife. Not a problem between a wife, her husband and every female member of their church.

Yes, it makes complete sense to me. Being human is pornographic to fundies, it seems. Humans are made to be physically appealing to each other. It keeps the human race going. Porno & perverted in fundie land is human nature in the real world.

Thinking about the opposite sex, being excited by the opposite sex, being interested in the opposite sex...it is that way by design/creation/need for survival. Red lips - a biological way of attracting males for a biological, instinctual drive. "Advertising" that you are ready to mate, a biological function of living beings.

Humans don't have to walk around naked and advertise, but we sure as hell haven't lost our instinctual needs and desires for mating and intimacy.

Porn is not a magazine or looking at someone of the opposite sex or even saying "nice ass", no matter what fundies say. Sex is not giving away pieces of your heart - never mind you can't do that anyway. Loving and bonding is not meant for only one other human being on the planet for all of your life.

Fundies take reality and humanity and turn it upside down and inside out so they can control it.

[liltwinstar]

I think I said it in a different thread, but I'm flabbergasted by the assumption/idea that fundie men are just anxious/ready/willing to cheat on their wives with any ol' piece of ass that comes along. Most grown up men can distinguish between "mmm, hot!" and "the woman I want to spend my life with and remain faithful to", you know?

I really think it's insecurity on the part of the wives - and in a way, I can understand that. I know when I was in fundie world as a teenager and wearing the frumpers and the no makeup and all of that - I hated myself, but also, I hated women who were prettier than me and who wore pants/makeup/cute hair. I didn't feel like I could measure up to that at all, given the artificial rules that I followed. So I can see how, if you're a fundie wife with 10 years of babyweight on you and straggly hair and a denim frumper from 1990, you would have absolutely no self confidence, and you would hate women who can make themselves attractive, you know?

I mean, what moderately fashion conscious woman who has lived in the normal world looks at a frumper and headscarf and says "omg, sooooo cute!!!" No, they don't. They have to be convinced/brainwashed into thinking that it's "holier" to dress that way by a (tiny) fraction of men who apparently have a frumper fetish.

Anyway, it has to suck to be in a relationship where you constantly doubt your partner's thoughts.

[Bookworm89]

How can fundie women ever be sure their husband will ever stay with them if they believe that a guy can't control himself. Looking at women causes him to lust/sin, why? Just because he looked?!? The guy isn't going out and physically cheating with another woman, if he is just looking at women. I don't want to ever get in a relationship with man let alone marry a man, that I would always be afraid would be cheating just because how women look attracts him. Looking is fine, have no issue with that, unlike the fundies, a man I consider good looking is going to usually get a second look, does that mean I am going to cheat on a future significant other just because the guy is good looking, no! The men need to take control of themselves and stop blaming women!

[VeraAnne]

I just don't understand this sort of thinking.

I know my husband looks at porn, and I know he looks at other women.

If I started screaming at him for doing either, it would do nothing but hurt our relationship. I'm comfortable enough in our marriage to know that neither of those things are hurting us.

Now, if he started ONLY looking at porn, and stopped having sex with me, well that would be a different story all together. I really doubt that's the problem in the linked post though.

[Nomorearrows]

Seriously though, it's every other woman's fault that the man has roving eyes? The fuck??

I hate the attitude that if a man sins, it's the woman's fault. If a woman sins, it's also the woman's fault.

There is no win-win situation for women in the fundie world. It seems that "women are the root of all evil' is the basis of fundamentalism (no matter the religion). Don't fundies always say that they emphasize self-control?

[Lillybee]

Phaedra of RHOA tonight explained how she solved the problem of exposing her knees in church. She carries with her a three foot square of nice fabric that she calls her prayer cloth and drapes it on her knees when necessary.