NLQ - "We're not freejinger" - mods going a little crazy

[Guest Anonymous]

I used to read NLQ blog and forums regularly and they were one of my routes over to freejinger.

 

I have visited there much less frequently since I lost faith in the way Vyckie was speaking about her daughter Angel, on Vyvkie's personal blog last year.

 

I popped back over there this weekend and thought some of the threads were a little crazy: this one kept getting locked down, but as far as I could see, the mods just seemed to be shutting down conversation with people who disagreed with them: nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1241

 

When I first discovered NLQ, the forums seemed to run in a fairly open way, with occasional vicious-but-honest flare-ups that were allowed to run their course in the name of free speech. Both the new blog and the new forum seem to be much more tightly controlled these days and those in disagreement with the mods seem to be brushed off with a reminder that NLQ is 'not free jinger'.

 

I liked the concept of NLQ, but it seems to be becoming more and more 'closed' in terms of the viewpoints that are allowed to be expressed there.

 

Interestingly, Angel, Vyckie's daughter, seems to be reconciling with the family - her latest blog posts speak of her taking time off to be at home for a few weeks. I feel for Angel and wish the best for her - but I can't help feeling that the thing she needs most right now is a really, really good secular therapist to help her sort herself out and get herseef mentally healthy, regardless of the ups and downs in her family life.

[MerryHappy]

I have very little good to say about NLQ. I am just grateful that FJ is in existence.

[Guest Anonymous]

Vyckie was never my favourite story-poster there, I simply don't think she has good writing skills, on top of anything else, but there used to be a lot of women with integrity and helpful stories. A lot of those seem to have moved on and the atmosphere seems weird now.

[finleeport]

What's wrong with NLQ?

[Guest Anonymous]

I have very little good to say about NLQ. I am just grateful that FJ is in existence.

Merry Happy, as a complete aside, your avatar caused me to order a Calvin & Hobbes book from the library, for old times's sake. I now have the Complete Collection on my list for Father Christmas. :D

[Guest Anonymous]

What's wrong with NLQ?

I outlined my specific concerns in the original post. I am not against NLQ per se, but feel things are a little odd there, lately.

[Brainsample]

I quit posting over there in their forum. The primary moderator hates about 90% of my comments and is quite ugly about it. Not that everyone here is all that happy with my opinions on matters, but I am treated with far more respect and acceptance.

I enjoyed the old forum before Vyckie moved it when I had a chance to participate. They had a far greater following and number of participants which thinned out the criticism from the moderator who signed on after I'd been fairly established there. There was a higher level of discussion there at that time which I just don't see there anymore. There is also a much higher degree of "control issue" junk going on there which takes all of the fun out of participation for me, and I'm quite tired of the moderator slamming the majority of my comments.

[Guest Anonymous]

I quit posting over there in their forum. The primary moderator hates about 90% of my comments and is quite ugly about it. Not that everyone here is all that happy with my opinions on matters, but I am treated with far more respect and acceptance.

I enjoyed the old forum before Vyckie moved it when I had a chance to participate. They had a far greater following and number of participants which thinned out the criticism from the moderator who signed on after I'd been fairly established there. There was a higher level of discussion there at that time which I just don't see there anymore. There is also a much higher degree of "control issue" junk going on there which takes all of the fun out of participation for me, and I'm quite tired of the moderator slamming the majority of my comments.

I don't know who you were over there, or which moderator you are talking about, but I am not at all surprised by what you say. On the thread that I linked, one moderator (FFT) seemed to be allowed free reign to shout down other people's comments and then the other moderators came on and said that everything was OK now and had been sorted by pm's. It felt like they were approaching Maxwellian moderation techniques. Also, the main forum post comments seem to be heavily patrolled by Vyckie apologists, and anyone who makes a comment that goes against the grain is quickly patronised and talked over.

Ironically, one of my early trips to freejinger occured when a member over there urge NLQ members to come over here and defend Vyckie over the Angel-Vyckie-thread-that-got-deleted on the Yuku board. I came over out of curiosity .... and seem to have stayed. ;)

[emmiedahl]

Ironically, one of my early trips to freejinger occured when a member over there urge NLQ members to come over here and defend Vyckie over the Angel-Vyckie-thread-that-got-deleted on the Yuku board. I came over out of curiosity .... and seem to have stayed. ;)

Dish? What happened with that? It must have happened before I lurked.

[Guest Anonymous]

Dish? What happened with that? It must have happened before I lurked.

TBH, I don't remember specifics but, around a year ago, there was a post on here about a blow-up between Vyckie and her eldest daughter Angel. There was conflict within the thread, that included members of both boards, who felt we were invading their privacy, and of course there were rebuttals by people who reminded everyone that we were only discussing stuff that both parties had put in the public domain in the first place. Before the argument was resolved, someone persuaded the OP to delete the post and so it was gone.....

[Brainsample]

The price of making your family a poster child.

In hindsight, though well after a lot of the damage had been done, I think that Vyckie made some very positive and healthy choices as a result of that whole season.

I think that getting through the often difficult period of a daughter separating from her parents is bad enough, and then under patriarchy, it is wicked. Getting out of patriarchy is its own private hell as you deal with all of the garbage that comes with the process. Then add in there that this was done under public scrutiny. There was much dirty laundry put out for all to see, and that is always risky.

[lilwriter85]

I give Vyckie credit for putting NLQ up and showing people that the QF lifestyle isn't sunshine and rainbows, but it did negatively effect her family in a way.

[Boogalou]

Do you have to have an account on NLQ to read the boards? I can't see anything and it wants me to log in.

[princessjo1988]

As someone who has been around both NLQ and FJ from the very beginning, and was overly involved in the blow up a year ago, I am saddened to hear that.

All that stuff has made me really pulled out of the ex-fundie world, mostly. I stick with mostly Free Jinger and blogs of people I know now. I found that some former fundamentalists swung too far the other way and became overcritical (particularly of fundamentalists, and of former fundamentalists), although I can see how that reaction came to be. I also feel like the perspectives of the children of fundamentalism and the adults of fundamentalism vary drastically, and the gap is very large, and not a lot of bridging work has been done in the wider community (overall). I personally feel that when I was a part of NLQ (at least) it fell into both of those traps in a big way.

I had a really bad experience with NLQ - I got banned because I was supporting Angel, and being open about some the stuff Vyckie was asking me to do, like starting threads here about Razing Ruth. It might be better now, but I can't draw that conclusion, because I am no longer a part. Nor do I really feel the need to be a part either, I am happy with what I have done and accomplished with my blog as part of that community. I do wish I had walked away from NLQ on my own terms at least, but I recognise that Vyckie is Vyckie and it was her space and choice to make that decision. I am not bitter about it, but I can say that I don't think it was handled well.

[MerryHappy]

Merry Happy, as a complete aside, your avatar caused me to order a Calvin & Hobbes book from the library, for old times's sake. I now have the Complete Collection on my list for Father Christmas. :D

I hope Father Christmas delivers. :D

[Rosa]

I also feel like the perspectives of the children of fundamentalism and the adults of fundamentalism vary drastically, and the gap is very large, and not a lot of bridging work has been done in the wider community (overall).

Agree 100%. I didn't know you got banned, Jo, I'm sorry to hear that.

[AnnoDomini]

Wow, this is a whole story I'm unaware of. I just read the articles on NLQ. What went down? What's this about Vyckie and Angel?

[Brainsample]

Wow, this is a whole story I'm unaware of. I just read the articles on NLQ. What went down? What's this about Vyckie and Angel?

AD,

I heard only Vyckie's version of events, and she was quite distressed over all aspects of things. I would say that Angel was "acting out" in ways that quite literally put Vyckie's other minor children at risk with legal implications which still constrain Vyckie from openly talking about what happened. I understand that Angel or Angel's supporters came here to FJ to present what was described to me after the fact as a one-sided view of Angel's experiences, something that sounds like typical acting out that many young women engage in when they are at this stage in life. That's not to say that either side was right or wrong, and perspective and age and complicated family issues make that all impossible for outsiders to sort out. Coping with this kind of conflict in public and having the dirty laundry aired on the internet greatly aggravated the situation, shall we say.

It sounds like it was all quite sad, and the whole exit from patriarchy is difficult enough to do without the public scrutiny muddying up the issue. Some were protective and supportive of Vyckie, vilifying Angel (and FJ). Some were protective and supportive of Angel, vilifying Vyckie. I guess that FJ got caught in the middle of that mess of conflict.

[Guest Anonymous]

AD,

I heard only Vyckie's version of events, and she was quite distressed over all aspects of things. I would say that Angel was "acting out" in ways that quite literally put Vyckie's other minor children at risk with legal implications which still constrain Vyckie from openly talking about what happened. I understand that Angel or Angel's supporters came here to FJ to present what was described to me after the fact as a one-sided view of Angel's experiences, something that sounds like typical acting out that many young women engage in when they are at this stage in life. That's not to say that either side was right or wrong, and perspective and age and complicated family issues make that all impossible for outsiders to sort out. Coping with this kind of conflict in public and having the dirty laundry aired on the internet greatly aggravated the situation, shall we say.

It sounds like it was all quite sad, and the whole exit from patriarchy is difficult enough to do without the public scrutiny muddying up the issue. Some were protective and supportive of Vyckie, vilifying Angel (and FJ). Some were protective and supportive of Angel, vilifying Vyckie. I guess that FJ got caught in the middle of that mess of conflict.

From somewhat the other side of the matter - on Vyckie's blog she wrote some really personal/medical stuff about Angel that she (in my opinion) had no business disclosing to the entire internet. She said that she hoped Angel would get divorced, and she said that Angel was a liar and not to be believed because when Angel was three years old she told people she was four. :roll:

Vyckie flipped and said that the blog was meant to be private, so I, for one, removed my posts quoting her when she took the blog to invited readers only. The whole thread was deleted in the end, so there's no going back to check anything. Then a few months later the blog was made public *again* which reeked of bullshit, and everything was brought back up.

[Brainsample]

I should state clearly that my difficulties with NLQ's forum had absolutely nothingto do with the Vyckie/Angel conflict. I only heard from Vyckie over the phone about the general event, and I felt very wrong about even reading any of it. My issues with the NLQ forum started long before any of that anyway.

I don't think that it's a good idea to talk publicly about one's cultic experience, especially on an internet forum for the world to see, until a person has been completely out of a group for about five years. Even years later, you're taking a huge risk. I wrote to Vyckie soon after she and Laura started that original blog, and I encouraged Vyckie to keep things more private until they'd worked through this first five years or so. People often change their minds about their beliefs several times in this first stage, and it's harder to rethink the process if you told the world "I believe A,B,C" and tomorrow, "D,E and F" make a whole lot of sense. If you've committed to ABC already, that adds additional pressure and limits your comfort and freedom (provided you've managed to find them). The emotional mess you have to sort through is tremendous as well. Do you really want to do that with the eyes of the world looking at you?

It's just sad that this whole exit process was made so much more complicated by the intrusion of the online community. These things are bad enough in private, with perspective one, perspective two, and the truth -- and who knows what that really is? It's so sad.

[Deleted12]

I left on my own terms because I felt like it was becoming the Vyckie show.

That board is TERRIBLY organized, both literally and metaphorically, and I got the sense that Vyckie herself was so involved in the drama that she could not see the problems with how the board was set up and moderated. Like I think that the whole set up of having people who were involved in patriarchy write extended, multi-part testamonials isn't very healthy. I also wondered where Laura went to in a hurry.

It's been a while since I was over there, so I'm sorry to be vague about what I didn't like about the site.

[Austin]

I had a really bad experience with NLQ - I got banned because I was supporting Angel, and being open about some the stuff Vyckie was asking me to do, like starting threads here about Razing Ruth. It might be better now, but I can't draw that conclusion, because I am no longer a part. Nor do I really feel the need to be a part either, I am happy with what I have done and accomplished with my blog as part of that community. I do wish I had walked away from NLQ on my own terms at least, but I recognise that Vyckie is Vyckie and it was her space and choice to make that decision. I am not bitter about it, but I can say that I don't think it was handled well.

Could you expand on the bolded part a bit more?

[Guest Anonymous]

It's just sad that this whole exit process was made so much more complicated by the intrusion of the online community.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that none of the family were anywhere near the point in the healing process where it seems like they would need to be to take on a lot of their issues in public.

I disagree a bit with the above, (maybe only the wording) simply because it makes it sound like online people were bursting into their living room. Everyone involved was splashing information here, there, and everywhere. As I said, when Vyckie made her blog private I took my quotes from there down. But it doesn't look like she's telling the truth about its public status being a mistake when she waits for the furor to die down a bit and then pastes it back up again. People can't intrude or comment on stuff if no one puts it out there. In my opinion the kids (minors or not) were treated pretty gently on FJ, including one of the other sisters who posted. V gets more critique because she was an adult who chose the lifestyle, which I think is valid.

I think there was a flunky involved at one point too, someone that had a google alert set to Vyckie's name so she could sail in and white knight for her. It was all very weird.

Could you expand on the bolded part a bit more?

IIRC Vyckie was getting questions or having doubts about Ruth's veracity so she asked princessjo1988 to start a thread on FJ about it. Hjinks ensued that princessjo would have to elaborate on - I'm fuzzy on the details.

[treemom]

I will say that I don't know who was telli the truth, but I do know Vyckie was the mother and the adult who chose the patriarchy, and then she made everything public and seemed to not get why that was an issue for angel.

If angel was acting out (which is such an anti-feminist phrase) she had every right to. Vyckie might have been hurt by patriarchy, but she also hurt her kids. And that means she needed to be the bigger one...the one who forgave more, the one who loved more, than angel. She owed that to her.

I got the impression Vyckie never felt like she owed angel for fucking her childhood up.

[starfish]

NLQ was interesting, in a limited way, but then it got to be like the Jerry Springer show. I just couldn't stand it. Vyckie's writing is not very good; like Jasmine, she's not a fan of brevity. Among other problems.

If you read Vyckie's life story, you see a series of bad judgments.

I'm not convinced she's exercising better judgment these days.