Anyone else having this problem with the Duggars?

[TouchMeFall21]

Now that the Duggars have announced #20, they're popular water cooler fodder at the office, naturally.

 

Unfortunately, whenever anyone brings them up in the most innocent, superficial way (if you can consider the phrase "clown car" to be innocent, in the given context!), I invariable end up launching into a diatribe about the Quiverfull movement, Gothardism, partriarchy, or some insidious combination of the three.

 

I bring up how grossly uneducated the youngest Duggars are; I'm sure to mention the dissonance between "leaving up to God" and "relying on extreme medical interventions to save your micro-preemie's life.

 

In short, I get a little rant-y.

 

Pretty sure I've educated a good number of people over the past two days, but also certain that I've come off as a wackadoo to many other (including my brand new boss).

[tropaka]

My husband hates the Duggars (well, anything TLC) and his eyes glaze over if I talk about Quiverful etc. His view is that they're freaks, and by paying attention to them I'm wasting my time and giving them some kind of validity. If I ever mention them or that lifestyle to people who've never heard of it, sometimes I have to remind myself that not everyone finds it threatening and/or fascinating.

[MamaWearsPants]

Unfortunately, whenever anyone brings them up in the most innocent, superficial way (if you can consider the phrase "clown car" to be innocent, in the given context!), I invariable end up launching into a diatribe about the Quiverfull movement, Gothardism, partriarchy, or some insidious combination of the three.

I do! It happened this morning while having coffee with my girlfriends. One friend made an innocent comment/conversation starter about #20 and the next thing I know I went off! When I stopped to take a breath, they were both staring at me like I was nuts. The only way to explain it was to out myself as a lurker here. ;)

[Daenerys]

I've got my boyfriend into snarking on the Duggars, it's brilliant.

Telling my mates they were having their 20th, one was like 'What the fuck is wrong with America???'

[Cassandra]

Yep! I also get excited when I hear QF news and talk about how I can't wait to discuss it with people.

I hadn't heard the news of the 20th until I was at work the day it was announced. We have free newspapers for guests and it was one of the headlines.

I saw it and immediately said to my coworker (who is quirky like me) 'I can't wait to go home and get online and see what FJ is up to!"

The rest of my co-workers thought i was a little weird...

[anniebgood]

I was telling my husband last night and he said, does her vagina sound like an echo chamber?

My mom said after that many kids there have to be problems with incontinence and if she says she doesn't have that problem,she's a liar. And she said do they have a farm or something that they need that many kids? I said no, they just believe that God wants them to have that many kids, she then said, God gave them brains, why don't they use them?

[bananacat]

Well I just started a new job so I am treading lightly. But one of my coworkers brought it up and was pissed off by it. I completely agree with her but I don't want to admit that I know so much about them, so I just picked the most important points, and then phrased them as a question. I said, "Wait, didn't the last kid almost die?" It gets the point across about how dangerous and irresponsible they are, but without sounding like a lecture. Luckily the people I work with already dislike the family so I don't feel like I have to prove anything to them.

[Lillybee]

I was telling my husband last night and he said, does her vagina sound like an echo chamber?

My mom said after that many kids there have to be problems with incontinence and if she says she doesn't have that problem,she's a liar. And she said do they have a farm or something that they need that many kids? I said no, they just believe that God wants them to have that many kids, she then said, God gave them brains, why don't they use them?

I think your mom is right. I know that after 3 I have to be careful about sneezing and laughing. I wouldn't be surprised that both DQ and Ma Bates are in depends already.

[NurseNell]

I think your mom is right. I know that after 3 I have to be careful about sneezing and laughing. I wouldn't be surprised that both DQ and Ma Bates are in depends already.

I've never been pregnant but still have to worry when I laugh or sneeze. It's the lack of estrogen that's at least as important as giving birth when it comes to cause.

[EllieCee]

Glad I'm not the only one who goes off in a flying rant whenever QF is mentioned.

Last year, in my media class, someone brought up the Duggars, and I went off straight for about five minutes. After it, the class looked at me like I grew two heads. My poor sister is usually dumped on by these rants regularly, so bless her soul. :p

I tend to rant quite a lot about various subjects, but I'm especially passionate with a few.

[Brainsample]

I often use the Duggars as a well known exemplar to describe an example of a Bible-based cultic group or a spiritually abusive group. People get overwhelmed pretty quickly, but I generally can hook their interest by using blanket training to hook their interest.

Appearances are deceiving and there are reasons why those kids are well behaved. For instance, the Duggars condition the children from infancy to remain confined through what they call "blanket training, a process that begins in infancy where the child is trained to remain on a blanket or suffer physical punishment with a paint stick or wooden spoon. Toddlers are too fearful to crawl off that blanket to the point that moms call the blanket "a playpen in a purse." But they don't show any of that on the TV show. Others within their belief system follow Michael Pearl, and his techniques have resulted in the death of some children. The spiritual leader that they follow is spiritually abusive/authoritarian, and if you leave the group or go against any authority such as a pastor, they tell you that God will punish or annihilate an adult for "crawling off their own proverbial blanket. They don't tell you that on the show, either.

More than that most people cannot handle, and if you get into too much, they shut off. People don't want to hear anything too disturbing.

If the conversation concerns why they have so many children, I talk about how the Religious Right has blackmailed Christians into believing one must have large families to really be considered pro-life. That can be a good talking point to bring up the fertility cult and "lets breed a voting block."

But people really don't want to hear most of this stuff.

[Cassandra]

I think your mom is right. I know that after 3 I have to be careful about sneezing and laughing. I wouldn't be surprised that both DQ and Ma Bates are in depends already.

My mom only had 1 and she had problems too....so 20!? She probably needs Depends

[FlorenceHamilton]

Raises hand...

I definitely launch into my explanation of Quiverfull, child training and Dominionist agenda.

[Vex]

Don't worry, I totally do the same thing. Last night, dinner with my mother turned into an hour long rant against patriarchy. Oops.

[raineymott]

I got angry and wrote a blog post. :D

[vermonter]

I had lunch with a friend today, and she mentioned it. She definitely thinks they're off the deep end for continuing after what happened with Josie, but she doesn't know all the details of why they're so awful. We talked a little about what if one of the younger boys was gay, and I definitely refrained from going full-tilt into the description of their politics, theology, rules, etc...

[TouchMeFall21]

In fairness, I work in a pretty liberal industry in the big bad ebil city, so I didn't anticipate any Duggar sympathizers. On the contrary, most of my colleagues seemed genuinely interested to learn about it insidious underbelly of the Duggar family (I work in an aggressively female-dominated industry--in fact, new boss is the first man I've ever worked for in my career--so I knew I'd have them at "patriarchy"). I just think they were taken aback by my fervor. And the fact that I clearly like to learn about fringe Christian movements in my spare time.

I recommended Kathryn Joyce's book on Quiverfull to those who seemed ready to take the plunge. I guess one woman's (Michelle Duggar's) questionable reproductive choices are another woman's teachable moment.

[pixydust]

Yup, and my hubby is sooo tired of hearing about it! haha

BTW, Brainsimple, thanks, I didn't know what "blanket training" was. That's really disgusting and sad. These kids spirits are broken by a year.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I was talking to my sister on the phone yesterday and she mentioned the Duggers, and it turned into a 2 hour shit-fest - way beyond snarking. We've been snarking on our quiverful step-sister for years, but my sis doesn't watch alot of TV so she doesn't know alot about the Duggars... I filled her in 8-) . Then she remembered she had seen the 20/20 (or dateline or whatever) show on the Bates, and I gave her all the dish on them as well. The convo ended with me giving her the addy to FreeJinger so she may take a browse or two here.

[Brainsample]

Yup, and my hubby is sooo tired of hearing about it! haha

BTW, Brainsimple, thanks, I didn't know what "blanket training" was. That's really disgusting and sad. These kids spirits are broken by a year.

Someone popped in yesterday to ask for links about this stuff, a connection between the Duggars and the Pearls. You can read more in the links there, and I posted an email from the moderator/cofounder of the Gothard Discussion list. Awful stuff. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4679

In blanket training, you start out with the infant who is not even yet able to crawl off the blanket. You lay them on it on the floor then you put on an histrionic display by beating the wooden spoon around the perimeter of the blanket to frighten them. When they're mobile, you actually bait the kid to crawl off the blanket and then swat them with the wooden spoon. "Come to me, baby!" WHACK! Sick, sick, sick. Then, when that wears thin, you bait them off with toys or a cookie. Trick or treat, and the poor, trusting child always get the trick. In it's own way, it is no different and perhaps a little more twisted than the plumbing line, depending on the circumstances.

They say it's supposed to teach them to obey God. But God doesn't tempt men with evil. All it does is teach the kid how to avoid punishment. I hate it.

[Buzzard]

I was in court today (picture "movie set" standard wooden courtroom filled with defendants on bond, defense attorneys, prosecutors, court reporter etc) and we took a break. The judge stepped off the bench and all of the attorneys were milling about by the court reporter raiding her candy. A sub deputy came over (and took the snickers I wanted grrrrr) and started talking about the duggars. All the attorneys and other deputies in the room said "oh shit", looked at me and scurried away before I let loose. I guess they've heard it from me before...

[Brainsample]

I had a crowd around me at a professional meeting last year after I went up to John Bradshaw (the family dysfunction guy) to tell him about Lydia Schatz and Pearl. In his lecture, he railed about Jim Dobson's position on spanking, and I told him that he hadn't heard anything yet. His physical reaction and expression was so dramatic, I found myself surrounded with counselors and social workers, wanting to know what on earth I'd said to him.

I started out telling them that there was a new movement to accept corporal punishment of children coming from the Christian homeschooling movement. There's a TV show that features a large family that is part of this movement... But as soon as I hit on the death of Lydia and the plumbing line, people shift right over into cognitive dissonance. The issue of the death is too much like a pejorative, and they get thrown emotionally and can't think. As soon as I started talking about the details of the death, the people who had just stepped in close around me to hear started to literally back away from me, about a foot at a time.

Consider that these are social workers and counselors and people that are trained to deal with abuse and addiction. They were no different than anyone else. I was astonished. They literally put space between them and me quite quickly and notably. I can't help thinking that those who watch CNN regularly would have thought of me that night.

Since then, in those types of settings, I go back to the spiritual abuse model of authoritarian and manipulative religion, and I capitalize upon the fact that these people loose all appropriate reality testing ability. Then I get into the weirdness. Just leading with the abuse freaks even professionals right out, and then they completely stop processing what you say.

But how do you make manslaughter less emotionally disturbing, though? I have to keep a tight, tight grip on my own emotions because the material is tough enough.

ETA: On dominionism, people seem interested in the "breeding the Christian Right," but they can't handle the Old South secessionist stuff and kinism flips them out. But they generally hang in there pretty well when it comes to the Duggars as breeding the new generation of voters, also as an adjunct to pro-life thinking. But I don't go into kinism anymore unless a person is morbidly interested. Conversation killer.

[Brainsample]

I was in court today (picture "movie set" standard wooden courtroom filled with defendants on bond, defense attorneys, prosecutors, court reporter etc) and we took a break. The judge stepped off the bench and all of the attorneys were milling about by the court reporter raiding her candy. A sub deputy came over (and took the snickers I wanted grrrrr) and started talking about the duggars. All the attorneys and other deputies in the room said "oh shit", looked at me and scurried away before I let loose. I guess they've heard it from me before...

We had an elder at our old Presby church (a physician) who would literally run away from us when we inevitably ended up on this topic. Wuss.

The poor guy. DVD players had just come out, and he asked us if we'd seen the Matrix and whether we'd liked it. DH said, that it was like an allegory for our exit from the Gothard cult (which it was). That guy could not get away from us fast enough.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I often use the Duggars as a well known exemplar to describe an example of a Bible-based cultic group or a spiritually abusive group. People get overwhelmed pretty quickly, but I generally can hook their interest by using blanket training to hook their interest.

More than that most people cannot handle, and if you get into too much, they shut off. People don't want to hear anything too disturbing.

If the conversation concerns why they have so many children, I talk about how the Religious Right has blackmailed Christians into believing one must have large families to really be considered pro-life. That can be a good talking point to bring up the fertility cult and "lets breed a voting block."

But people really don't want to hear most of this stuff.

Brainsample, I had to post your argument on my FB, because you said it better than I ever could. Psychological/spiritual abuse is so insidious and invisible because everyone can manage to put on a good face in public. Or like another FJer said elsewhere, they put on their "retail smile."

Let's see if some of my pro-fertility friends get on my case. :lol: Just because someone's superfertile doesn't automatically make them a good parent...no matter how well they "sell" their image. And boy is Michelle pissed when we look past the surface veneer, like we were discussing in another thread.

[muffynbear]

I work with a lot of soccer mom types who watch the Duggars and who also find Sarah Palin appealing :roll: One lady that I work said: "Oh the Duggars! They're such a nice family!" Cue my 10 minute rant about their piss poor education and cult-status. She looked at me like I was crazy. She had no idea about their whacko beliefs. She simply thought they were a sweet family who enjoyed having loads of kids.