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I also think there is a difference between taking him to the ladies' room- where things happened behind closed doors- and to a changing room where people literally run around naked.

This. In our family, at least, my cousin got to go into the girls' bathroom until he was 10. But a changing room? No way. He would've then been expected to change in a bathroom stall if we felt he was too young to be on his own but too old to be taken in with us.

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Who determines what's young enough? I'm thinking of Etan Patz and Adam Walsh, who were both 6 years old when they were kidnapped and murdered. For me, 6 is definitely too young to be alone in a men's restroom or locker room without a parent.

I don't see a big difference between 6 and 7, or even 8. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere alone at that age. My parents didn't start letting me do that until I was 10. If a mother is at the pool with her children, what's she supposed to do with her son?

Re-read the OP. It wasn't a restroom. It was a women's locker room at a gym and his mother had no business bringing him in there. What should she have done with him? Hired a babysitter or stayed home.

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The general rule here seems to be that the child must be under 7 to go in an opposite sex changing room with a parent.

Personally I remember my Dad letting me take my little sister into the girls' bathroom alone when we were no more than 5 and 7. We were certainly old enough to have our Dad wait outside for us by then!

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Re-read the OP. It wasn't a restroom. It was a women's locker room at a gym and his mother had no business bringing him in there. What should she have done with him? Hired a babysitter or stayed home.

I read the OP, thank you. I know it was a locker room. She asked for opinions, and I gave my opinion. In my family, my parents took my brother into the women's changing room when he was that age. I do not think there is anything wrong with it.

I find it astounding that some people are so threatened by the presence of an 8 year old child. I would rather see a little boy with his mother than have him be molested or kidnapped, and that sort of thing does happen. Maybe not as often as people feared when I was growing up, but it's still a reality.

Hire a babysitter or stay home? So the little boy has to stay at home with a babysitter while his mother brings his sister to the pool? I find that utterly ridiculous. :roll:

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Not everyone is the same age cognitively as they are chronologically either. A 9 year old boy can look like every 9 year old boy but have the mental age of a 6 or 4 or younger child.

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I read the OP, thank you. I know it was a locker room. She asked for opinions, and I gave my opinion. In my family, my parents took my brother into the women's changing room when he was that age. I do not think there is anything wrong with it.

I find it astounding that some people are so threatened by the presence of an 8 year old child. I would rather see a little boy with his mother than have him be molested or kidnapped, and that sort of thing does happen. Maybe not as often as people feared when I was growing up, but it's still a reality.

Hire a babysitter or stay home? So the little boy has to stay at home with a babysitter while his mother brings his sister to the pool? I find that utterly ridiculous. :roll:

What right do you have to decide that the women who paid for the use of that gym must accept the presence of a 8 or 9 year old boy while they are changing?

Would you allow your 8 or 9 year old daughter into a men's locker room under the same circumstances? And would you just expect the nude men to just suck it up and deal if you did?

He didn't belong there; his mother was being selfish and should have made alternative arrangements.

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What right do you have to decide that the women who paid for the use of that gym must accept the presence of a 8 or 9 year old boy while they are changing?

Would you allow your 8 or 9 year old daughter into a men's locker room under the same circumstances? And would you just expect the nude men to just suck it up and deal if you did?

He didn't belong there; his mother was being selfish and should have made alternative arrangements.

We disagree. You are free to condemn her actions, and I'm free to say that I see nothing wrong with it. I just find it bizarre that a woman would feel so threatened by a child. Your alternate scenario just isn't comparable, from my point of view. Statistically, men are far more likely to molest and kidnap children than women are. A little boy alone in a men's restroom or locker room is at far more risk than a little girl alone in a women's space.

Besides, if my husband were alone with my young daughter, I would absolutely prefer that he bring her into the men's locker room or restroom with him, rather than send her off on her own. It might be okay if he was waiting right outside the door, but even then things happen. I would rather have my child with a parent than alone with strangers. I would never allow a small child (6 or younger) alone in public, under any circumstances.

If you read my original comment, I did say that 8 or 9 is a good time to try sending the boy on his own. As long as he is not developmentally delayed, which as CanadianHippie pointed out, is not always visible to the naked eye.

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What right do you have to decide that the women who paid for the use of that gym must accept the presence of a 8 or 9 year old boy while they are changing?

Would you allow your 8 or 9 year old daughter into a men's locker room under the same circumstances? And would you just expect the nude men to just suck it up and deal if you did?

He didn't belong there; his mother was being selfish and should have made alternative arrangements.

My aunt and uncle foster/adopt special needs kids. Her one son is about 8 but still goes in with her, and I bet you'd be acting like this about her son. What you wouldn't know is that he's autistic and she sits him down with an iPad/game boy/etc because if she doesn't, he'd wander away. And who can find a sitter willing to deal with all the issues you can't see until they come up.

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My aunt and uncle foster/adopt special needs kids. Her one son is about 8 but still goes in with her, and I bet you'd be acting like this about her son. What you wouldn't know is that he's autistic and she sits him down with an iPad/game boy/etc because if she doesn't, he'd wander away. And who can find a sitter willing to deal with all the issues you can't see until they come up.

The young man the original poster encountered was practicing his guitar and she made no reference to him appearing to be otherwise disabled. Odds are he wasn't. And really, it makes no difference either way from the perspective of the fee paying customers of the gym.

I know we live in a child-centric world these days, but some places and situations are simply not appropriate for kids for a variety of reasons. Whether their parents get that or not.

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The young man the original poster encountered was practicing his guitar and she made no reference to him appearing to be otherwise disabled. Odds are he wasn't. And really, it makes no difference either way from the perspective of the fee paying customers of the gym.

I know we live in a child-centric world these days, but some places and situations are simply not appropriate for kids for a variety of reasons. Whether their parents get that or not.

So we throw disabled kids under the bus?

Honestly, I don't get the hostility towards this child. Sure, he was probably old enough to go to the men's locker room on his own. So what? He's a little boy. He's not going to harm anyone. I would expect any adult, male or female, to understand that children are in need of protection, and their need for protection trumps the fact that a few adults might be annoyed.

What are we basing these restrictions on, anyway? The child's genitals? The child's gender identity? The child's presumed sexual orientation? What if it was a transgender or intersex girl with a penis? What if it was a trangender boy with a vagina? What if the boy was gay and totally not interested in the naked women around him? Those situations happen, too.

It would be ironic if the child in question wasn't actually a boy at all, but rather a butch little girl with a short haircut and boys' clothes. Many butch women can pass as male, and they often find it easier to use men's rooms because other women will freak out at the sight of them in female facilities.

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I have a 9 year old boy and just today I let him go in the Aldi bathroom alone because the store was pretty empty. I usually make my 15 year old take him or depending on where we are he comes to the womans with me.

A few years ago there was a story on the news where a young boy went into the mens bathroom at a park and got killed in there while his mom waited outside. Having 2 boys I never forgot that and have always made sure my kids had a partner to take them or they come with me. This is in public bathrooms, I don't go to a gym.

I would not allow my 9 year old in a mens locker room alone.

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Stranger danger is real but it makes people forget about more likely dangers. If Jackson were abused, it's 10 times more likely that the abuser would be someone he already knows rather than a complete stranger in a public bathroom. It is a serious problem that he got lost and someone should have waited outside for him, but public bathrooms are no more dangerous than most other public areas.

As for a 9 year-old in a locker room, I think that's going too far. It's not good for women in there, and it's also probably mortifying for the poor boy. I once saw a boy about that age in my locker room and he hurried up and got something out of the locker as fast as he could, with cheeks bright red from embarrassment. The cut-off age should be 5-7. I don't care about mental age. What if a 40 year-old man has a mental age of 5? Does that mean I have to let him watch me get naked? Most gyms that I go to have family changing rooms or special big stalls within existing changing rooms. For bathrooms, the age range can go a bit higher since everyone has their own stall. In that case I would let a child go in alone when s/he is old enough to not need my help with zippers, wiping, reaching, etc.

As for different sex buddies, the Duggars do not care about girls seeing naked baby boys. Remember, they believe that women "aren't visual" or really sexual at all. In one of the early specials, the girls shared beds with boys. Not just rooms, but actual beds. And not even double beds either, they crammed a preteen girl and a toddler boy into little single beds. I know the older boys used to have girls as buddies too, but back then buddies did a lot less since the oldest ones were still pretty young. So Josh might have helped Jinger put on her mittens or helped her with schoolwork, but he wouldn't have changed her diapers or given her baths. Now that buddies pretty much raise the kids entirely, only girls can do it because they'll have to see the genitals.

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So we throw disabled kids under the bus?

Honestly, I don't get the hostility towards this child. Sure, he was probably old enough to go to the men's locker room on his own. So what? He's a little boy. He's not going to harm anyone. I would expect any adult, male or female, to understand that children are in need of protection, and their need for protection trumps the fact that a few adults might be annoyed.

What are we basing these restrictions on, anyway? The child's genitals? The child's gender identity? The child's presumed sexual orientation? What if it was a transgender or intersex girl with a penis? What if it was a trangender boy with a vagina? What if the boy was gay and totally not interested in the naked women around him? Those situations happen, too.

It's THE MOTHER who brought him into women's locker room and no one has directed any hostility towards the boy. Chill with the hyperbole, please.

And the issue is not the child's genitals or whether he's gay for God's sake, the issue is the patrons' right to privacy in a sex-segregated locker room. No one should be subjected to a stranger's 8 or 9 year old son watching them undress. If they don't mind fine, but I guarantee you in my gym, most would mind very much.

And as bananacat astutely pointed out, assuming he had a mental disability (although there is no indication whatsoever he did), where do you draw the age line? I have a 38 year old autistic brother. Do you think he should be allowed in the ladies changing room?

We live in a increasingly narcissistic culture. So often it's about what "I want, what I need" with little or no consideration for the rights of others. It’s a good bet this boy's mother didn't give a damn about how anyone else felt about the situation. If she had, she would have made alternative arrangements.

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The young man the original poster encountered was practicing his guitar and she made no reference to him appearing to be otherwise disabled. Odds are he wasn't. And really, it makes no difference either way from the perspective of the fee paying customers of the gym.

I know we live in a child-centric world these days, but some places and situations are simply not appropriate for kids for a variety of reasons. Whether their parents get that or not.

Ok, this mind set really pisses me off. Just because someone doesn't look like they have a disability doesn't mean they don't have a disability. The child could have any number of disabilities that mean he "looks" like every other 9 year old out there but is incapable of understanding danger/caring for himself in various ways/etc.

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Ok, this mind set really pisses me off. Just because someone doesn't look like they have a disability doesn't mean they don't have a disability. The child could have any number of disabilities that mean he "looks" like every other 9 year old out there but is incapable of understanding danger/caring for himself in various ways/etc.

You are missing the point entirely. Most women in a locker room don't want your typical 9 year boy checking out their bodies. (and if you've ever had a 9 year old son, you'll know most are quite interested.) Someone obviously blind or mentally disabled probably wouldn't present as much of an issue for them. This kid appeared pefectly healthy and the OP wasn't pleased about him being there. With good reason.

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It's THE MOTHER who brought him into women's locker room and no one has directed any hostility towards the boy. Chill with the hyperbole, please.

Fair enough. But for what it's worth, I don't think it's fair to direct hostility towards the mother.

And the issue is not the child's genitals or whether he's gay for God's sake, the issue is the patrons' right to privacy in a sex-segregated locker room. No one should be subjected to a stranger's 8 or 9 year old son watching them undress. If they don't mind fine, but I guarantee you in my gym, most would mind very much.

Well, it sounds like the child's genitals are the problem. Assuming that he is a boy who has a penis.

I guess I don't really understand the main objection here. Why is an adult woman fearful/uncomfortable being naked in front of a male child and not a female child? Why is it less private to be naked around a child than around other women, especially considering that adult women are sexually aware and children aren't?

I mean, I'm a very modest person. I would feel equally uncomfortable being naked around women as I would around men. That's why I've never done nude group showers and have always changed in private dressing rooms/stalls instead of the main locker room. That's just my personal preference, but I'm not threatened by the naked presence of others, especially not children.

I don't belong to a gym, and I don't know what part of the country you live in, but all I can say is that I remember my JCC days, and my brother was certainly not the only male child in the women's locker room. As far as I can recall, no one ever complained. It was mostly mothers who brought their children to the pool in the summer. Maybe things have changed since 1988, but the JCC back then had a relaxed atmosphere.

And as bananacat astutely pointed out, assuming he had a mental disability (although there is no indication whatsoever he did), where do you draw the age line? I have a 38 year old autistic brother. Do you think he should be allowed in the ladies changing room?

No, of course not. Time to hire a professional caregiver if you have a disabled teenager or adult. But we're talking about young children.

We live in a increasingly narcissistic culture. So often it's about what "I want, what I need" with little or no consideration for the rights of others. It’s a good bet this boy's mother didn't give a damn about how anyone else felt about the situation. If she had, she would have made alternative arrangements.

I don't like to assume the worst about people. It may not have even occurred to the mother that anyone would have a problem with it. Your "alternative arrangement" involved hiring a babysitter and leaving the boy at home. I don't think that makes sense. It seems like an overreaction. There are lots of mothers who have little boys, and if they are taking their boys out in public, I want them to do what they feel is safest for their sons. The same goes for fathers with young daughters. I don't think it's narcissistic. For me, child safety comes first. My son would be coming with me until I felt it was safe for him to go by himself.

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You are missing the point entirely. Most women in a locker room don't want your typical 9 year boy checking out their bodies. (and if you've ever had a 9 year old son, you'll know most are quite interested.) Someone obviously blind or mentally disabled probably wouldn't present as much of an issue for them. This kid appeared pefectly healthy and the OP wasn't pleased about him being there. With good reason.

Again with the "obviously". Not every single person with a disability shows it, they don't all wear signs that say "I have a mental/physical disability".

Look up the term "invisible disability" and maybe you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

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It is no safer to send your kids into a restroom or locker room by themselves than it is to leave them home alone while you do a bit of shopping, and no one would dream of leaving a 9 year old home alone. I think the prudery needs to stop. It was a kid. His mom had a right to be there, so he did as well. If you don't like it, maybe *you* should go somewhere else rather than suggesting that he go unattended into a room of unknown naked men.

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emmie, I know you mean well but locker rooms really aren't more dangerous than other things that kids face all the time. A child is 10 times more likely to be sexually abused by someone they know than by a stranger, but nobody ever wrings their hands about how horrible it is to leave your kid alone with your uncle or cousin. A 9 year-old boy is too old to be in a woman's locker room. It's not about prudery. You're the one being a prude if you really think that the male locker room is just full of horny pedophiles waiting to pounce an unsuspecting child.

If their are no family changing rooms or on-site childcare, then the mother needs to make some other arrangements. She could allow the boy to sit on the bleachers beside the pool while she changes, or have a friend watch him in the lobby for a few minutes, or leave him home with Dad or another adult. Or she could skip the gym because the world doesn't revolve around her and she isn't entitled to a workout in a gym if she can't find a way to follow the rules. At the very absolute least, she should minimize the time she spends in the locker room. If she's in there long enough for her kid to break out a guitar, she needs to practice changing faster, and she should shower at home. And apparently the kid was left alone in the women's locker room, which doesn't really seem much better than leaving him alone in the lobby or even the men's locker room. It isn't every woman's duty to watch the kid.

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Really? Where else is my son going to be left alone with a bunch of naked men I don't know? He would be safer home alone, and that is so dangerous it is illegal.

I don't understand why she should have to make all these alternative arrangements because of someone else's sensibilities. It's like breastfeeding in public; the one who is uncomfortable with it gets to leave, not the mom.

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Look up the term "invisible disability" and maybe you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

Once again, you are missing the point. And I don't need your lecture about invisible disabilities; I have a very tall, dark and handsome 38 year old autistic brother.

We're talking about a mother bringing a nine year old boy into a females-only locker room without the consent of the women who were in there changing. Someone else said "but what if he's disabled?" (despite the fact that there is no indication he was.) My specific point - if there is no obvious indication he is blind or mentally handicapped - most women would object to a boy that old watching them undress and his mother should not have brought him in there without the prior consent of the patrons themselves. Is that clear enough?

Further, are you suggesting that all "disabled" boys are incapable of having sexual interest in women's bodies? That mindset seems incredibly shallow to me.

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Gotta weigh in on this one...I have a son, and I had to be careful where I took him, rest rooms, etc. Lately, though, I've been a YMCA attendee at our local pool, and several other public facilities where I see families of children, "on the verge" of not being allowed into ladies' locker rooms. Some of the moms, well, most of them, tend to keep a close eye on their boys, and they don't typically display any scary peeping behaviors, either. Most of the moms are sort of apologetic, and try and rush Jr. out of there as quickly as possible.

In a way, I feel sorry for moms who have to juggle taking their various-aged kids (and themselves) to activities, knowing somewhere sometime someone might take offense. When I see a "grown" kid, I take pains to dress quicker, hide behind my towel, locker door, but don't get all too worried about it. In a way, I'd rather see a kid briefly in the locker room with his mom, then to see a lone kid in the men's locker room alone.

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Jennifer, I'm trying to understand your point of view. Would you be uncomfortable if it was a girl or woman who was looking at your body with sexual interest?

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No, bringing a preteen boy into a woman's locker room is absolutely nothing like breastfeeding in public. That's ridiculous. And the gym probably has rules about this thing. A baby needs to be with Mom and only mom to get breastfed. A 9 year-old can safely stay with someone else for a few minutes without starving or suffering in any way. Being a parent sometimes means slight inconveniences. Sure, it's nice to keep your exact routine and just drag the kid along wherever you go, but sometimes you have to make accommodations for the good of the kid. It's really not asking too much to take kid into account while making plans.

Why do you think a 9 year-old boy in a locker room is in so much danger? He is in more danger of being abused by your own family members. Locker rooms aren't full of horny men just waiting to jump some victim. Predators are everywhere, but they usually target people they know. Do you think some naked man is just gonna lose all self-control and rape the boy right there with all the other men watching just because he doesn't have a piece of fabric covering his penis? Or is that you object to a 9 year-old boy seeing naked men? Is it really better for him to see a bunch of naked women?

You are not realistic about actual dangers. Your kid is in more danger from your own family and friends than from some strangers. This is very common because nobody likes to think that someone they know could do something bad. But the real world doesn't work that way. It's also the same with rape. The shady man lurking in the bushes or a dark alley is very rare. It's much more likely to be a man that the woman already knows. But of course this isn't convenient to believe. People like to feel like they have some kind of control. If they just avoid strangers at any cost, they'll be safe. But it's harmful to ignore reality and to ignore the greater dangers.

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I don't understand why she should have to make all these alternative arrangements because of someone else's sensibilities. It's like breastfeeding in public; the one who is uncomfortable with it gets to leave, not the mom.

Maybe because the world doesn't revolve around her personal needs and her wants?

This is not like breastfeeding at all. If a woman chooses to breast feed in public, that absolutely should be her prerogative. It's her body.

If women don't want to display their bodies to 8 or 9 year old boy in the locker room of a gym they paid to join (and I don't know too many who would), then Mommy needs to make other arrangements.

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