Does Joy look... not joyful?

[donks]

^ It's cause they know they've got a bum deal here: Mom and The Boob get to smile and pretend to be the parents while the poor girls raise their own siblings!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Actually, Michelle has said she was like Joy as a girl......

[Daenerys]

Actually, Michelle has said she was like Joy as a girl......

Bloody hell, I don't think drinking Kool-Aid would have been enough then: she clearly had it intravenously....

[Deleted12]

I think that a lot of the howler smiles are as forced as Joy's.

I was noticing on the Today show that a lot of the kids had an "Oh shit" expression. :(

[bananacat]

Joy looks more than just unhappy. She always has eye circles and just looks worn out. Maybe she's not getting enough sleep, but I worry that she has a more serious medical issue. Of course many teenagers are a little moody, but I haven't known any as sullen as Joy.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I was noticing on the Today show that a lot of the kids had an "Oh shit" expression. :(

I noticed it too. At one point Jedidiah (who was sitting on the edge of the couch) looked like he was going to bolt.

[emmiedahl]

I hope they took the picture when they told the kids. I bet the expressions all looked a bit like this:

[FireIsCatching89]

Joy looked not only unhappy, she looked very wan. Like, ill. Given how ruddy Michelle and JB are, pale children with shadows under their eyes suggest something's up. Joy is in the throes of puberty, which can explain some of the moodiness, but depression can also lead to trouble eating and sleeping. When I was severely depressed, it showed on my face because I was tired and wasn't getting enough vitamins and calories, so I was a bit tuburcular looking with a poor complexion. I worry a bit if that's the case for Joyanna and maybe Jana. Jana is at her peak, she should look it, but doesn't. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it doesn't seem right.

[CynicMom]

For whatever reason, Joyanna reminds me of Scootaloo, the My Little Pony character. Always running around, athletically trying to find her true purpose in life.

[Mommy22alyns]

Well now that she's 14, they're probably taking away all the fun she had playing with her brothers and are now forcing her into the little Mommy role. Whereas her brothers are still allowed all the playtime they desire. Sucks being a girl in that house.

[Lillybee]

And to top it off, I think she will be the new one's buddy/

[emmiedahl]

I hope nothing bad is happening to her. Someone here described her as sullen and that Fiona Apple song 'Sullen Girl' came to mind. Heaven forbid.

[annalena]

I think she'll be the buddy only if it's a girl. Aren't the buddies gender exlusive?

[Markie]

The older girls are the buddies of all babies and toddlers; you can't have BOYS change diapers and dress siblings! The older boys in a buddy group might take on mentoring younger siblings once they are school aged. For example Joshiah might take Jackson under his wing, help him with some school work, show him how to mow the lawn, etc...

[annalena]

I remember Smuggar being a buddy (or pretending to) in one of the specials, I think it was 14 and.

[JenniferJuniper]

Jason is currently Jackson's buddy. That was made clear in one of the birthday episodes and you'll note they are paired when Jackson needs someone to hold his hand. And Jackson said it himself after Jason was injured.

After Jackson at no more than 4 or 5 was allowed to go on his own to a men's room :x at an airport and promptly got lost, they probably realized that the girls can only handle so many little kids at once.

[annalena]

OT but the bathroom story reminds me.

Yesterday I went to the gym where a boy was sitting in the ladies' changing room and practicing guitar, probably his mom schlepped him there.

He was like at least 8-9 years old! :shock: That is too old to sit in the ladies' changing room, where ladies are, umm, changing, naked, or what do you think?!

[JenniferJuniper]

OT but the bathroom story reminds me.

Yesterday I went to the gym where a boy was sitting in the ladies' changing room and practicing guitar, probably his mom schlepped him there.

He was like at least 8-9 years old! :shock: That is too old to sit in the ladies' changing room, where ladies are, umm, changing, naked, or what do you think?!

Waaaay too old. I would have asked his mother to remove him or notified the staff. I know it's tough when an opposite sex parent has to take a young child into a restroom, but there's no excuse for bringing a boy that age into a women's locker room. Uncomfortable for the women, and fetish-inducing for the young man later in life!

[annalena]

He didn't seem too interested, but honestly, I felt kinda bad changing in front of him, I don't know, I felt like I was harrassing him even though I just changed my pants. But I wore a thong and I do not want to parade around in front of a 8- or 9-year-old in a thong. Toddler, say, up to 4,5, different story.

Couldn't he just as well have practiced in the guys' locker room?

But his mother didn't seem to be around and I didn't want to call the pour kid out on it. He seemed insecure already.

[annalena]

Should I open a separate thread for that? Am I hijacking the thread? But that really bothered me.

[QAF_Rocks]

OT but the bathroom story reminds me.

Yesterday I went to the gym where a boy was sitting in the ladies' changing room and practicing guitar, probably his mom schlepped him there.

He was like at least 8-9 years old! That is too old to sit in the ladies' changing room, where ladies are, umm, changing, naked, or what do you think?!

There was no dad in our family, and my parents were terrified of sending my brother into the men's restroom or locker room when he was little. This was the 80s, height of child kidnapping, stranger danger panic. So he usually came to the women's facilities with us. I never thought there was anything wrong with it.

I don't know if there's an upper age limit for that sort of thing. As long as the boy is elementary school age, I wouldn't find anything strange about him being there with his mother. But I think 8-9 is probably a good time to try sending them on their own. From what I can remember, my brother started making the transition around that time.

[annalena]

I also think there is a difference between taking him to the ladies' room- where things happened behind closed doors- and to a changing room where people literally run around naked.

[QAF_Rocks]

I also think there is a difference between taking him to the ladies' room- where things happened behind closed doors- and to a changing room where people literally run around naked.

True, but if the boy is young enough, is it really that big a deal? My family swam at the JCC every summer, and there were definitely plenty of nude women in the changing room. I don't think it's unhealthy for children to see adults naked, as long as it's in a non-sexual situation, of course.

I guess comfort level varies from family to family and culture to culture. I remember coed showers and a coed locker room at day camp when I was little, though the kids kept their bathing suits on. I was always very modest, so I changed in the stalls both at the JCC and at camp, but I wasn't bothered by seeing other people naked.

[JenniferJuniper]

I don't know, if the boy is young enough, is it really that big a deal?.

8 or 9 is not young enough, so it is potentially quite a big deal to the women who use the locker room and don't wish to be seen undressed by men or boys.

I think it's fine if parents have no issues with kids and nudity; but take them to a naturist beach where the the adults are willing participants. Not to a single-sex locker room where there is an expectation of some level of privacy.

[QAF_Rocks]

8 or 9 is not young enough, so it is potentially quite a big deal to the women who use the locker room and don't wish to be seen undressed by men or boys.

I think it's fine if parents have no issues with kids and nudity; but take them to a naturist beach where the the adults are willing participants. Not to a single-sex locker room where there is an expectation of some level of privacy.

Who determines what's young enough? Etan Patz and Adam Walsh were both 6 years old when they were kidnapped and murdered. For me, 6 is definitely too young to be alone in a men's restroom or locker room without a parent.

I don't see a big difference between 6 and 7, or even 8. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere alone at that age. My parents didn't start letting me do that until I was 10. If a mother is at the pool with her children, what's she supposed to do with her son?