The fascinating girl

[fundies_like_zombies]

Googled the book after seeing it on a blog and it looks ................... nuts!

Question - if the author is a mormon why do christians follow the book?

"Fascinating Womanhood is an immensely powerful force for good in

your marriage, however it also gives you the knowledge to manipulate

men. Please strongly resist any temptation to abuse it in this way."

"The first thing to learn is that men are different from women. Men don't think, act or react as women do, nor do they have the same needs and values."

"Accept your husband for the man he is today, with no changes. Acceptance means you recognise him as a human being who, like yourself is part virtue and part fault. This is an honest look. You realise that his faults exist but focus on his virtues. You accept the total man with all his potential goodness and all of his human frailties."

The Secrets from the book:

1 is "accept who he is"

2 is "admire his masculine qualities"

3 is "make him number one"

4 is "allow him to lead"

5 is "inner serenity"

6 is "enjoy your home making"

7 is "make the most of yourself"

8 is "femininity delights a man"

9 is "just ask with a smile"

10 is "handle anger femininely"

"Childlike anger is the cute, pert, saucy anger of a little child. They are so trusting and innocent and yet so piquant and outspoken, they are often teased into anger."

"When such a child is teased she doesn't respond with some hideous sarcasm Instead she stamps her foot and shakes her curls and pouts. She gets adorably angry. We feel an irresistible longing to pick up such a child and hug it. We would do anything rather than permit such an adorable little thing to suffer danger or want; to protect and care for such a lovely human little creature would be nothing less than a delight."

[Renting with Raggles]

Does she ever comment on how she identifies 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits? Because concrete gender roles and abstract qualities are pretty much determined by culture.

[fundies_like_zombies]

The blog post is more like oooooh curtains and fruit baskets and prettyness.

Looking further down there is a VF mention too maybe it is a fundie blog after all.

[maybeizfundie]

The book skeeves me out majorly. And iirc, one of the weirdest Wife Swaps involved a woman who was a devoted follower of the concept. ick, ick, ick.

She's totally wrong about children, even. My and my sibs all had "hideous sarcasm" down pat very early on, lol.

And it's not that I think sarcasm is necessarily the healthy and relationship-promoting response to upset. But surely there is something in between that and stomping/curl-shaking? Surely?

[fundies_like_zombies]

Wish i had seen that wifeswap - I like all that reality crap!

Creepy if husbands want their wives to pout and stamp their feet. Child shouldn't = attractive.

[JuJuBee]

"When such a child is teased she doesn't respond with some hideous sarcasm Instead she stamps her foot and shakes her curls and pouts. She gets adorably angry. We feel an irresistible longing to pick up such a child and hug it. We would do anything rather than permit such an adorable little thing to suffer danger or want; to protect and care for such a lovely human little creature would be nothing less than a delight."

Ick! Talk about manipulative behavior. What guy wouldn't get completely annoyed by this? And there are other alternatives between "hideous sarcasm" and acting like a two-year-old. What about calmly discussing the situation like two reasonable adults. Why do they always assume the woman's natural reaction is to be a bitch?

[Boltingmadonna]

She gets adorably angry. We feel an irresistible longing to pick up such a child and hug it.

Yeah . . . when I was a child and got angry, my parents felt an irresistible longing to slap me across the face and tell me to shut up. I guess I was doin' it wrong.

Accepting someone, acknowledging that they are human and sometimes make mistakes, and appreciating their good qualities are not magic sekrits of fundie marriage. They are just good ideas for every relationship. The rest of the book is crap. I admit to having read it when I was a fundie and my penis-ship was being a huge jerk to me and acting out his own issues big time, and I didn't know what to do. I am a large, strong woman and if I'd taken to batting my eyes and stomping my foot, people would have thought I'd lost my mind. It would be like Mrs. Shrek deciding to have an adorable little tantrum.

BTW, a good therapist worked wonders for my husband, whom I love dearly. Sometimes men actually have problems and need help resolving them, rather than being subjected to wacky manipulation by a wife who has bought into a magic philosophy.

[ChunkyBarbie]

Seriously, if I went all Shirley Temple on Mr. Barbie, he would be annoyed and disgusted at the very least. He wants an equal partner, not an adult-sized child bride. It is beyond disgusting that some of these Fundies, in fact a big sector, advocate that a good and desirable wife acts like a child, sounds like a child, and should be treated like a child, but be sexually available for Mr. Fundie at all times possible. What.The.Fuck?!?!?!

[fundies_like_zombies]

the blog hasn't mentioned all the be a child crap but just the quoted bits from the internet are major ick.

[Kaylee]

The childlike stuff is accurate. There's a whole chapter in the book on "Childlike Anger", which says not to express anger like a man (or normal person would), but to try to make it "cute" but pouting, stamping your feet, and calling him a "mean name" that highlights his masculinity like "you big, hairy beast", so he gets amused and gives in.

I've taken a couple Fascinating Womanhood courses over the years, and taught them myself for a while. One thing that becomes obvious is that the bloggers and people who promote it now have twisted some things and made it more restrictive than Mrs. Andelin meant things to be. At the same time, the book really does read like a handbook for manipulating your husband into getting your way, and that's what finally soured me on it. After years of following FW, reading Created to Be His Help Meet actually felt liberating, because I had "permission" to like fixing stuff, having interests outside the stereotypically feminine, and to use my talents and not have to act stupid and incompetent in order to boost someone else's ego.

I will say the years I was really into the Fascinating Womanhood stuff hardcore were actually the worst years of our marriage, partially made so because I was stressed and inwardly resentful of the mold I was trying to force myself into, and my husband was wondering WTF had happened to the woman he married.

To add insult to injury, the "version" of Fascinating Womanhood that most of the bloggers are following now, and the one promoted on Candy's site, is not even the real book. In 1989, a guy from New Zealand named David Coory, who keeps getting shut down for promoting crack cures and medical advise, got permission to publish a short book based on the original. He removed some of the more tolerable parts and caveats from the original book, added in a couple layers of his own misogyny and added quite a few of his personal preferences in as guidelines for all women to follow (including pictures of "acceptable hairstyles" and descriptions of his preferred body type), and published it as "Secrets of Fascinating Womanhood". It's subtle, but where the original book did offer some praise and encouragement to women, "Secrets" is just a bunch of put-downs and criticism, some veiled and some not. It is available free online though and, because people like free things, it's shared very widely and very frequently on fundie blogs and websites and is referred to probably 10x or more as much as the actual FW books.

Another thing people skip when putting FW into context is that it was almost completely taken from a series of pamphlets published in 1920 aimed, not at wives, but at young women trying to impress a man into marrying them. It's one thing for a young single girl to be overly admiring, childlike, and dependent and clingy for a few months while dating, but quite another to expect a grown woman to keep that shit up for the rest of her life.

I've got copies of the original pamphlets, FW books from several editions (original 1963, 1975, 1992, 2007), Coory's "Secrets of Fascinating Womanhood", and FW teacher's guides from the early 70s, 90s, and mid 2000s and one thing I'd like to do eventually is a comparison showing where things came from, how they've changed, what ideas and passages were dropped in the book's revisions, and the major changes Coory made in his booklet, along with a general critique of many of the ideas and how they work (or not) in a marriage today. It'll be a few years if/when I get it done, but I'm hoping that it's something people who follow FW would be interested in and, at the same time, that they would see the original teaching were not meant to be followed for years at a time within a marriage and that they were a product of a very different time and social environment.

[MamaJunebug]

Oh, Raine!

Please put those pamphlets, etc., wehre they'll be safe through the process of the compare and contrast!!!!!

What a good thing you'll be doing.

I recall my poor sainted BigMamaJunebug reading either FW or Total Woman when she and Big Dad were having troubles. Eegad, it was a miserable time.

Thankfully ;) they both grew out of whatever stage they were in, to prompt such activity. Tch! Parents, those days. :D

[BravaAmica]

"When such a child is teased she doesn't respond with some hideous sarcasm Instead she stamps her foot and shakes her curls and pouts. She gets adorably angry. We feel an irresistible longing to pick up such a child and hug it. We would do anything rather than permit such an adorable little thing to suffer danger or want; to protect and care for such a lovely human little creature would be nothing less than a delight."

Really? DS is 6 and has been speaking fluent sarcasm since about 4 1/2. But maybe that's because he gets it from me.

[emmiedahl]

My 4 year old is fluent in 'hideous sarcasm'. She is also really cute when she pouts. I think the sarcasm is actually a little bit cuter.

[JesusFightClub]

This made me laugh, because of small relative. She's four.

She will shake her head dismissively and go "Aye hen, whitever" . She shouldn't do, it is rude. It is however very funny. ;)

[JesusFightClub]

And I also realised that needs translated. She is saying "Yeah, love, whatever" ;)

[ThisOlGirl]

I would think for this kind of bullshit to work, you'd have to have a total dimwit for a husband who will never catch on to this kind of manipulation. I used to sulk, pout and occasionally cry to get my way with ex-hubby. I knew he had caught on to me when I was working up some tears one day (Over something stupid I'm sure), and he looked at me and said, "What are you gonna do, cry?". Never tried that shit again.

[Austin]

"Childlike anger is the cute, pert, saucy anger of a little child. They are so trusting and innocent and yet so piquant and outspoken, they are often teased into anger."

"When such a child is teased she doesn't respond with some hideous sarcasm Instead she stamps her foot and shakes her curls and pouts. She gets adorably angry. We feel an irresistible longing to pick up such a child and hug it. We would do anything rather than permit such an adorable little thing to suffer danger or want; to protect and care for such a lovely human little creature would be nothing less than a delight."

I just read this to my husband and he just looked at me with his WTF look and said, "Good lawd. . . why would I want that? I didn't marry a child. Sick jerks".

Which made me consider that perhaps there's sort of a creepy, almost pedophilic vibe from some of these writings infantalizing women or exhorting them to act like children.

[LucySnowe]

2 is "admire his masculine qualities"

I was JUST admiring him doing the ironing. I think that doesn't count.

I should probably instead admire him leaving his underwear on the bathroom floor. (He gave me permission to say that.)

[Nurse Jenna]

"Childlike anger is the cute, pert, saucy anger of a little child. They are so trusting and innocent and yet so piquant and outspoken, they are often teased into anger."

Fuck! This is beyond insane. I say I need a stiff drink.

[ems]

Googled the book after seeing it on a blog and it looks ................... nuts!

Question - if the author is a mormon why do christians follow the book?

"Fascinating Womanhood is an immensely powerful force for good in

your marriage, however it also gives you the knowledge to manipulate

men. Please strongly resist any temptation to abuse it in this way."

"The first thing to learn is that men are different from women. Men don't think, act or react as women do, nor do they have the same needs and values."

"Accept your husband for the man he is today, with no changes. Acceptance means you recognise him as a human being who, like yourself is part virtue and part fault. This is an honest look. You realise that his faults exist but focus on his virtues. You accept the total man with all his potential goodness and all of his human frailties."

The Secrets from the book:

1 is "accept who he is"

2 is "admire his masculine qualities"

3 is "make him number one"

4 is "allow him to lead"

5 is "inner serenity"

6 is "enjoy your home making"

7 is "make the most of yourself"

8 is "femininity delights a man"

9 is "just ask with a smile"

10 is "handle anger femininely"

"Childlike anger is the cute, pert, saucy anger of a little child. They are so trusting and innocent and yet so piquant and outspoken, they are often teased into anger."

"When such a child is teased she doesn't respond with some hideous sarcasm Instead she stamps her foot and shakes her curls and pouts. She gets adorably angry. We feel an irresistible longing to pick up such a child and hug it. We would do anything rather than permit such an adorable little thing to suffer danger or want; to protect and care for such a lovely human little creature would be nothing less than a delight."

Hug it? Adorable little thing?? Lovely human little creature??? Way to dehumanize both children and adult women.

[oscar]

People who tease children into anger because it is cute are jerks.

[Boltingmadonna]

I just remembered why I was intrigued by Fascinating Womanhood. At least until I'd actually read it and realized most of it made me gag a little. It was because the book promised you could get your husband to adore you and do nice things for you. I had been living in my religious group where they preached that marriage was about fulfilling one's duties and not about love and romance. They taught that husbands should look to their male leadership for counsel and decision-making, and not consult their wives, who would just be overly emotional. Basically a woman was reduced to an obedient little foot soldier. Compared to that, when the book promised if I'd dress and act like a silly ass, I'd actually receive love and attention, it looked like a good deal.

When being treated like a house pet seems better than your current condition--how pitiful is that!

[dawbs]

I remember getting SO ANGRY at my otherwise intelligent college roomie over this book.

I don't think she's spit out the kook-aid yet.

I don't like 'how to maniuplate' books--which isn't limited to fundie books, a LOT of marriage books are this.

I really don't like passive agression because the poor widdle female isn't allowed to actually do waht she needs to do--which is this book in spades.

The only positive thing I can say (about the original, not the 'secrets' one) is that it gave some (limited) good info on when it was NOT Ok to do this--when it was abuse, etc.)

[fundies_like_zombies]

I just read this to my husband and he just looked at me with his WTF look and said, "Good lawd. . . why would I want that? I didn't marry a child. Sick jerks".

Which made me consider that perhaps there's sort of a creepy, almost pedophilic vibe from some of these writings infantalizing women or exhorting them to act like children.

Sounds kinda pervy like women aren't attractive unless they are acting like children.

[Kitty]

I really don't see what men like about women acting like children. Well, it's not all, just sick fucks who don't want to admit they're fucking pedophiles. This is disgusting. Any man who told me to act like this will find his nose having a very intimate encounter with my fist.