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What's wrong with Abe Lincoln?


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Sproul Jr. posted to Ron Paul 2012 Facebook page:

Not being fans of Honest Abe, we call the toy logs either Washington logs or Liberty logs. In honor of an unentangled foreign policy and freedom in general, Maili, my nine year old, suggested we start calling them "Ron Paul logs" Smart girl, that one.

So what's the sooper-Calvinists' beef with Abe Lincoln?

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There's also speculation that he might have been gay.

That part I don't get, he was married and had kids, so if he was gay, how did he had kids with his wife? how do you turn on a closested gay?

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That part I don't get, he was married and had kids, so if he was gay, how did he had kids with his wife? how do you turn on a closested gay?

Keyword: Closeted. Meaning, he was basically expected to marry a woman and have kids with her. There's also the speculation that the Mrs. was crazy and abusive.

Also, he's a bad president simply because he "started" the Civil War. I'm pretty sure the leaders of the Southern states did, since, you know, it was the Southern states that seceded over the fact that Lincoln wasn't going to let them force people to work all day for zero pay.

Seriously, look up slaves' quarters and basically anything about life in slavery back then.

Which is why I hate talking about slavery or anything Civil War-related with fellow Southerners. I'm Yankee born and bred, so of course I'm ignoring those oh-so-unfair tariffs which were never mentioned in the states' secessions, or in their constitutions.

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well since the name gas nothing to do with abe t makes them slightly addled.

The Lincoln name refers to the inventor's father. Frank Lloyd Wright's given middle name was "Lincoln". Wright dropped the name Lincoln, when his father abandoned the family and adopted the name Lloyd, which was the maiden name of his mother. The inventor uses the initials FLLW on his seal and red tiles, thereby acknowledging his given middle name. Lincoln Logs originally came with instructions on how to build Uncle Tom's Cabin as well as Lincoln's log cabin.

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The short answer is that Lincoln drastically expanded the power of the federal government in the process of facilitating the "War of Northern Aggression" where most of his support came from leading up to the war. (We had no income tax before the war.) Individual states, under the Constitution, had a right to secede, but Lincoln essentially wouldn't permit it. So Lincoln is held accountable by the South for setting up the factors that resulted in the war, orchestrating that which preceded it.

The South argues that they produced all of the goods there and the federal government and the cities in the North regulated the sale of those goods to Europe, etc. It is felt that the North profiteered off the capital produced in the South as well when it channeled more of the tax revenue to bolster infrastructure in the Northern cities while neglecting the needs of the South. So the South wanted to secede so that they could keep their own profit and cast off the pressure from the North to abandon slavery (because everyone knows that the fine Presbyterian slave owners were so kind and good benevolent overseers who helped those slaves). They saw the industrialization in the North as evil, expanding the cities, tearing apart families, and those in the North were stereotyped as secular and unChristian (though much of that idea of what constituted Christianity was social pretense and the Old South culture).

The majority of the major players in the Civil War were Reformed/Calvinist, and they wanted autonomous control over their own lands. As is common in countries who are at war, you use every motivator you can find, so you spiritualize the war effort. So this turned Yankees into living devils who hated God, people who wanted to devour their own children by sending them to work in sweat shops in godless cities. It was cast as a threat to the agrarian way of life (where they used slaves for the labor instead), and even some of the more modern agrarian writers who would like the South to rise again believe that you cannot live as a Christian in a city or in an industrialized area. It destroys the Gospel.

One of the most vocal Confederate Presbyterians, once head of one of the Presby denominations and a seminary professor was Robert Lewis Dabney. He is useful in homeschooling because he advocated for it, he vehemently opposed feminism, and he argued for a free South and desentralization of the federal government through local government autonomy (states rights). Doug Phillips hails Dabney as a prophet.

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One of the most vocal Confederate Presbyterians, once head of one of the Presby denominations and a seminary professor was Robert Lewis Dabney. He is useful in homeschooling because he advocated for it, he vehemently opposed feminism, and he argued for a free South and desentralization of the federal government through local government autonomy (states rights). Doug Phillips hails Dabney as a prophet.

I wonder if Doug and his ilk would be in the Confederate army if he was back in time during the Civil War? would he agree to having slaves?

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I have heard SO many different reasons about why the Civil War was started. I've lived in the mid-north-west my entire life and had no idea ppl still considered themselves "confederates" until three years ago.

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I wonder if Doug and his ilk would be in the Confederate army if he was back in time during the Civil War?
Considering this is Doug we're talking about, no doubt it would depend on how cool the costumes were.
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There were always people who supported secession, but in the late 60s and early 70s, Rousas J Rushdoony of the Chalcedon Foundation started promoting homeschooling, in response to the secularization of the public school system. Then there was the sexual revolution and abortion and corruption and communism, etc. Christians had largely abandoned their presence in politics, and Rushdoony was one of the early advocates for Christian Reconstruction -- Christians taking back a place of influence in politics.

These old writings like those of Dabney were appealed to for the purpose of arguing the right to homeschool. They also argued for states rights. So many of the people you hear about today were the sons of the men who were taught by Rushdoony to revive and republish these old writings. Wilkins in Lousiana, Lloyd Sprinkle, etc...

Essentially Rushdoony saw this southern stuff as much like the medieval period which he liked because it was also decentralized (which is why you hear people refer to fiefdoms when they talk about patriarchy). Much of that perception that is believed today came from Rushdoony and his encoruagement. He also liked the medieval period because it preceded the Enlightenment which is also highly vilified as evil because it operated under the premise that men were good and could come together to do good for society. Dabney railed against the Enlightenment in his writings. Of course, the Calvinist believes that man is totally depraved and basically evil without faith in Jesus and can only work corruption, so they don't like the Enlightenment very much anyway. But that discussion and a vilification of the Enlightenment (which helped birth the US and states rights) was very much a part of the whole discussion of the South, the War and Lincoln. Lincoln was also about using rationalism and the goodness of secular men to build a better society. The Calvinist who seeks a theocracy hates that.

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I wonder if Doug and his ilk would be in the Confederate army if he was back in time during the Civil War? would he agree to having slaves?

Doug used to regularly preach that slavery is God's design to control our debt problem, and he relies upon those who argued during the Confederate period that slavery was the Biblical model for economic stability. So he definitely would have been a slave owner. Hierarchy all the way.

But would he have fought? I think that he likely would have been one of those who paid someone else to fight for him. But who knows. If he could have made a buck by fighting, he might have done it. And if Daddy ordered him to go, wouldn't he have to go and fight?

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Keyword: Closeted. Meaning, he was basically expected to marry a woman and have kids with her. There's also the speculation that the Mrs. was crazy and abusive.

Also, he's a bad president simply because he "started" the Civil War. I'm pretty sure the leaders of the Southern states did, since, you know, it was the Southern states that seceded over the fact that Lincoln wasn't going to let them force people to work all day for zero pay.

Seriously, look up slaves' quarters and basically anything about life in slavery back then.

Which is why I hate talking about slavery or anything Civil War-related with fellow Southerners. I'm Yankee born and bred, so of course I'm ignoring those oh-so-unfair tariffs which were never mentioned in the states' secessions, or in their constitutions.

Oh no, mrs was certifiably insane. She spent a good stretch in a mental institution near my hometown. I remember reading somewhere that she was a bit....odd before but seeing her husband assasinated and all but 1 of her kids dying in early child, kinda drove her over the edge.

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It sounds like Abe himself was socially awkward and not very comfortable with his political power. He had nightmares about the war and thought he was being visited by the ghosts of dead American soldiers, many of them young boys. imo, he was the only President to lead the nation in war with a firm understanding of exactly what he was doing, the price being paid for political ideals.

It does not surprise me that his wife was a little off. She endured enough tragedy to send me into a mental ward.

The Republican party in the past was progressive and in favor of a strong central government. Things have changed rapidly in the last few decades. They are now the anti-central government and anti-progress party. So I can see why modern Republicans would feel disdain for their fore-fathers.

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He claims that scholars have inflated the number of people who died in the Holocaust, and that many of the deaths were from disease and epidemics that were unrelated to the political situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousas_Joh ... ust_denial

Which is the same tactic that Zundel and the other Holocaust deniers use. Most realize that people won't buy it that there were no Jews killed, so they say the numbers were inflated and blame it on disease and/or starvation from the Allies bombing the trains to the concentration camps.

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Which is the same tactic that Zundel and the other Holocaust deniers use. Most realize that people won't buy it that there were no Jews killed, so they say the numbers were inflated and blame it on disease and/or starvation from the Allies bombing the trains to the concentration camps.

There was also some cultural/ethinic weirdness with him as well. His parents fled Armenia, and Rush was their first generation American son, but there was a great deal of pride that he had, coming from a line of Armenian Christians. So there was that cultural antisemitism in play for him, I think. It basically stole the historical thunder of what his family, his parents, endured during their holocaust at the hands of Islam.

He was born round about 1915, and it was a whole different era which tended to be racist and had concerns about people of other races that are not acceptable today. That doesn't mean he is not innocent in saying some of the stupid things that he did, but his age and background were an issue.

He was also pro-miscegenation, too. No race mixing, believing that was a Biblical mandate and part of the moral law, statements made in his earlier years. But so was my own grandfather, someone who was roughly the same age as Rushdoony.

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That part I don't get, he was married and had kids, so if he was gay, how did he had kids with his wife? how do you turn on a closested gay?

Marriage was also a sort of business relationship back then. Very few people stayed single because you needed two people to keep up a household. And some people manage it. I've got a friend who was in denial and has a daughter from a previous marriage. (actually a couple, but one had his wife and son die in a car accident. Another was married with no kids. A couple of those friends say that while they were nearly always attracted to men, those specific women were the only ones they were sexually attracted to.)

I suspect that if Lincoln was gay, he was actually bisexual, because his first fiance he was very in love with, and when she died, his wife was just sort of somebody because he needed a wife.

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Guest Anonymous

I wonder if Doug and his ilk would be in the Confederate army if he was back in time during the Civil War? would he agree to having slaves?

Doug and friends would weasel out of serving somehow. Although, that wouldn't stop them from dressing up in Confederate uniform. And yes, I could see him having slaves.

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I have heard SO many different reasons about why the Civil War was started. I've lived in the mid-north-west my entire life and had no idea ppl still considered themselves "confederates" until three years ago.

I'm currently taking an upper level seminar on the Civil War and really, there is not one reason why the Civil War was started. No one explanation is going to account for all the factors. It was a really, really, really complicated situation.

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