The Roots of my Fascination with the Duggars and their Ilk

[Deesire]

Years ago, I saw one of the Duggar specials (the one where they move into their big, new house) and I was kind of intrigued by the family. I've seen episodes of x Kids and Counting since then and I've had some interest but not much more than that. Recently, though, I became quite fascinated by the whole thing, to the point of a mini-obsession (just for a few days). So what's the deal? I don't think I tuned into the idea of the Duggars' religious beliefs until this recent obsession. Now I've just been reading various forums, blogs and websites and am just becoming a tiny bit familiar with the acronyms, etc., used in these patriarchal Christian circles.

 

It's taken me a few days of pondering.... what is the deal? Why am I so focused on this topic right now? What is it that I am searching for or trying to see in all of this?

 

So I think I finally hit on an answer. The whole movement reminds me of my family's and my culture's history. I am French-Canadian. I am actually an only child, raised by a single mom (who'd left my dad while I was still a baby, after it became apparent he was an full-blown, active alcoholic with no desire of being anything else) so it isn't like Patriarchal Christianity is my own personal experience. And yet... it lurked in the background... as it probably did for most French-Canadian people after the mid-1960s or so. Prior to that, of course, it was the reality of so, so many French-Canadian families.

 

My mom, born just before the second world war, was the youngest of 8 children. Catholicism was very much practiced in her childhood -- daily morning masses, evening family rosaries, lenten fasting, etc., etc., etc. -- just a typical French-Canadian Catholic family.

 

She raised me Catholic too, and one of the rules I had to abide by (regardless of how much protest) was attending weekly Mass until I was 16 (though when I was old enough to go on my own, I did have the option of attending the religious service of another denomination in lieu of mass, something which I did on a few occasions) -- I disliked the ritual of Mass from the time I can remember. Later, I came to dislike it more because I did not believe and it made me feel hypocritical to be there.

 

So I've been agnostic, leaning towards atheistic, since my pre-teen years. And I've also had some interest in Canadian history, including religious history in Quebec. So I've got this picture of the dominance of the Catholic church and of the "revenge of the Cradles" and all these components that are so, so, so very similar to the Duggars' life as portrayed in their TV shows... BUT

 

BUT... something just wasn't adding up. As I watched the Duggars and read a bit about the Quiverfull movement and Patriarchal Christianity (and, admittedly, I've only read a tiny bit so far), even though it seemed so much like a present-day reincarnation of what was the norm in French Canada up until the 1960s, something was still fascinating me, keeping me obsessed, even keeping me awake at night...

 

Finally, I realized it was the cheerfulness, and expression of joy!!!!

 

That's the difference. I don't know how these values actually played out in historical French-Canadian families, but I do know the way I was raised was that when you were in prayer, in Church or anything of the sort, you were supposed to be SERIOUS. And quiet. And private.

 

My mom is just a pretty serious person, who probably wouldn't rank "fun" as one of her important values. From what she's told me about her own mom (who died long before I was born), she was even more serious, even dour. There are only a few pictures of her and she sure isn't smiling in any of them.

 

And in French-Canadian popular culture, there are many historical portrayals. While joy and fun do occasionally show up on party nights, like at weddings, where there is fiddling and square dancing (and drinking!), the regular mode is hard work. And seriousness. Perhaps some pain and suffering. Prayer and worship are all very, very serious. Certainly not to be done with smiles on.

 

So that's what it was!!! Here are the Duggars (and presumably others like them) who appear to be happy, or at least in a good mood, and who value that.

 

That was my sticking point. My image of my French-Canadian ancestors is that they worked hard and hoped for happiness after death and for all eternity... and delayed cheer and fun and good moods until that time. I may have a skewed image. Like I say, I didn't actually live it, the era where the Catholic Church ruled and women were told to submit to God and their husbands and keep having children, even if it killed them. But at least my image of it is that no one had to be HAPPY about God's will. I just picture all these overworked, tired, serious, ill-tempered adults and maybe a few moments of fun snuck in between siblings.

 

Seeing the Duggars smile and seemingly be happy. That's what's new. That's what's fascinating.

[3 is enough]

Hey, Deesire, I'm from Quebec too, though I'm an Anglophone.

Don't you find it interesting, though, that in the 60's the French Canadians did a 180, and went from having large families, and being very religious, to having the lowest birthrate in the western world, and leaving the Church in droves? It's like someone flipped a switch, and suddenly they looked at their lives and said "Hell, no! I'm done with this crap!"

I find it fascinating. Wonder if any of the Duggar kids will do the same.

[Witsec7]

Welcome aboard.

I think they smile because they have made millions.

[Deleted12]

I wonder if they're not allowed to show other emotions.

Like in the Botkin spanking lecture, Anna Sofia talked about how she would get spanked for having the wrong tone of voice. I would think that if that was going to get me a whippin', I'd paste on a big cheesy fake smile too.

[Guest Anonymous]

How much money do you think the Duggars have? If they are millionaires, how long do you think the money will last when TLC pulls the plug? I don't see it lasting very long with all those kids.

[Austin]

Welcome aboard.

I think they smile because they have made millions.

Word. Jim-Boob is smiling and giggling his way all the way to the bank.

It's not an either/or choice. Lots of people are generally happy without extreme religious beliefs or a bazillion kids.

[Deesire]

Hi 3 is Enough,

Oh, yeah, I do find the Quebec quick turnaround absolutely fascinating!

I'm actually Franco-Ontarian, rather than from Quebec, which has some relevance to how my family history played out. In Ontario, until 1967, the only language of instruction that was permitted in publicly-funded school was English. So French, Catholic families would send their kids to boarding schools, (for high school), run by religious orders. From 1967 onwards, publicly funded Separate (Catholic) school boards were allowed to teach in French and from thereon there was a change in culture in French Ontario that happened far more slowly than in Quebec, with it's really quick switch from Catholicism to lay society. The trend away from the Catholic church for French-Canadians in Ontario has seemed much slower, more gradual, more on a case-by-case basis, than as a mass exodus (pun not intended).

I remember, for example, when I was in university in 1995 or so, a prof. in Women's Studies stating that a recent study had shown the average for loss of virginity in Quebec was 15, while amongst Franco-Ontarians it was 18.

As for those, like the Duggars, who are current-day adherents to this patriarchal Christianity, what distinguishes from historical Quebeckers (and French Canadians outside Quebec) is not only the cheerfulness I posted about but also the fact that they are a minority within their culture and are aware of that. Whereas this type of family (father as head of family, mother as submissive helpmate who would have as many babies as her head of family deemed fit to insert in her womb, siblings who had a 20-year + age span from older to youngest, etc.) was the norm within mainstream society for a significant length of time until the 1960s in Quebec.

[Deleted12]

If they have 5 million dollars (which is what my back-of-the-envelope calculation estimates), that's just $250K per kid.

It's a nice nest egg, but it's enough to buy a house and a car, and not a lot after that. Those kids are all going to have to work for a living, or at least the boys will and the girls will have to marry working men.

[dormouse]

Welcome aboard! I am French-Canadian too, from Montreal. I too am an only child raised by a single mom. But my background is atheist/agnostic, not catholic at all, and very liberal. My mom was raised the uber-Catholic French-Canadian way (with schoolteacher nuns promising you hell if you didn't do your homework), but became an atheist during her teenage years in the early 70's, like a lot of baby-boomers did. My dad is French, in fact my grandfather immigrated to Canada after leaving a religious order in France, so he is a former monk! France has embraced atheism earlier than Quebec did. My dad has been raised an agnostic, but converted to Buddhism at 50.

Needless to say the only way I was taught religion was as a part of our history, but not as a set of rules to be followed. I am fascinated by fundies because their culture is the total opposite of my upbringing. My mom remained very hippie, and our gay neighbor was her best friend. The first time I went on the Interwebz when I was a teen, I was actually horrified to learn that there was such a thing as homophobia, and that a lot of Christians didn't accept gays.

[Angri-la]

They are so happy because they are rich and have an outlet to spread their Patriarchal BS to a million plus people weekly. They are shills for Gothard and ATI, but under a veneer of Happy Christian Family with Wholesome Family Values .

Welcome Deesire from another formerly uber-Catholic Canadian, albeit one from the Anglais speaking provinces. Glad to see you here: the Duggars are gateway fundies for many who arrive on the exquisite FJ carpets. Dig around, there is more entertainment on this site than a lifetime of Duggar episodes!

[Biscuit]

Welcome, Deesire. I just started posting myself, after lurking for months. Thanks for posting this...I found it really interesting to read.

[Deesire]

Ha, ha, Dormouse, I love your location! Bravo for French Canada, even it it happens to take place in Hearst, Ontario or Gravelbourg, Saskatchewan rather than good 'ole Montreal Québec!

I think J'chelle and JimBob may actually BE happy! Why not? They got to choose their adult lifestyles.... as unusual as their choices may have been to some of us.... and many of their kids may also be currently happy (I actually hope all the Duggars ARE happy)...

I dunno... the Duggars all seem so much alike, just from a physical, genetic perspective. I'm sure the whole dressing alike thing contributes to this. But even without the Duggaform, they do look a lot alike. There is one boy that sticks out, to me, as looking less like the others -- Jeremiah, I think it is... so, who knows, who may be able to break away from the rest of the family, if they so choose....

Yes, let's free Jinger and any other Dugger or any other fundamentalist who may who may want to break away! My hope for all of them is that they can find information on "the outside world" if they have any interest whatsoever in seeing how others live their lives.

[lexiloumarie]

Hey, Deesire, I'm from Quebec too, though I'm an Anglophone.

Don't you find it interesting, though, that in the 60's the French Canadians did a 180, and went from having large families, and being very religious, to having the lowest birthrate in the western world, and leaving the Church in droves? It's like someone flipped a switch, and suddenly they looked at their lives and said "Hell, no! I'm done with this crap!"

I find it fascinating. Wonder if any of the Duggar kids will do the same.

Birth control also became affordable and accessible at right about that time (at least in the US.) I have a Catholic grandfather and Jewish Grandmother who had 7 kids, the last born in 69 because according to my grandmother that's the year the pill was carried at the local pharmacy and they could afford it.

[Angri-la]

And, welcome Biscuit, nice to have you. Please feel free to find an introduction thread, or be brave and start one. Some of us bite, but you'll find a supportive bunch here. I love to read a good "Why I finally decided to say Hey! after months of lurking" post. The diverse stories of the women here are another draw, as you must know from lurking, in addition to the fascinating fundie antics.

[3 is enough]

Birth control also became affordable and accessible at right about that time (at least in the US.)

Funny you mentioned that. My mother is Catholic, my Dad was Anglican. She eventually went on the pill in 1969, after her 5th child was born. She felt guilty, but there was no way in hell she was going to have another child.

My parents had a summer cottage about an hour outside of Montreal. My father's sister (Anglican) and her husband (Catholic) often spent the weekends with them. Evidently my uncle did not have any qualms about using birth control, but after forgetting the condoms at home, he could not find any for sale in the small (predominantly French-speaking) towns near the cottage. This was in the mid-60's.

[Deesire]

Llexiloumarie, I absolutely agree that the availability of birth control is a key factor! The question becomes how you define availability. If someone is raised as a Catholic in Quebec up to the late-1960s or as a fundamentalist Christian in currant-day rural America, is birth control really "available" to them? Just because you can get condoms at Wally-World today as easily as you can get a bouquet of flowers for the girl (woman?) you are about to court because her father agreed to such an agreement (after consulting with JC directly, of ccourse), does that make them "available" to the Duggars and Bates of today?

I am absolutely shocked to learn of the existence of a courtship subculture today. One that eschews touching before marriage, intercourse on the wedding night, but intercourse only when the calendar indicates that the currant time is a fecund time that may lead to a "blessing" (time your wedding accordingly, young virgins) and where it's just fine and dandy if your age ends in "teen" where you make this commitment for the next oh, say, 70+ years to the one person with whom you will make Soldiers of Christ.... Wow!!!... it is definitely foreign territory to me... difficult for my virgin ears to hear! (I was going to specify that I meant the term "virgin ears" in the figurative sense when I realized my ears had not been penetrated in the literal sense -- perhaps some shenanigans for my BF and I to get up to without fear of pregnancy should we ever run out of birth control?!)

All snarkiness and facetiousness aside -- absolutely agree that modern birth control methods, especially the birth control pill, is the key ingredient in the independence of women!!!

[dormouse]

Ha, ha, Dormouse, I love your location! Bravo for French Canada, even it it happens to take place in Hearst, Ontario or Gravelbourg, Saskatchewan rather than good 'ole Montreal Québec!

My location is based on a SouthPark episode:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Christmas_in_Canada

And yes, I do consider myself a French Canadian, even if the term seems archaic to most Quebeckers today. I've never been a separatist, and I wish we could all get along without that petty language fight (and I had this opinion long before I met my husband, who is an Anglo-Canadian). I am very sad to see what PM Stephen Harper is doing with our country. He is slowly removing all the great things that made Canada famous worldwide.

I was very sad when Jack Layton died because he was pretty much the only hope for left-wing but federalist people. He made Quebec realize that the true fight was not French vs. English but Left vs. Right (or Everyone vs. Harper!). I hope it stays that way, but I have doubts, because lots of people in Quebec voted NDP for le bon Jack, not for the party itself.

[Eclipse]

I'm from French Canadian stock myself, though my generation and that of my mothers grew up as Anglophones in Ontario. My grand-mère grew up speaking French but was born in Saskatchewan.

I grew up with stories about the parish priest visiting the home to speak with the wife if she wasn't pregnant within a certain amount of time after her last pregnancy.

I have certainly found in my own experience that French speaking communities outside of Quebec are behind their English speaking neighbours in regards to gender roles and division of household chores. Also the Catholic Church maintained its influence on French Canadians outside of Quebec longer due to missing the social upheaval that secularized education, health care and social services. If my parents had sent me to a French school where I lived, it would have been a Catholic one unless they put me on a bus for an hour each way to a school two cities away. Most of the French community here in southwestern Ontario is still centred around the Church, its not so much so in Ottawa area hough.

[fundyfunland]

I also grew up in the Franco-Ontarian/Catholic setting, and the Duggars lifestyle does not remind me one bit of what I was surrounded by. In my community, the french peeps go to Catholic churce mainly because it's a part of their culture, not so much because they're hardcore religious. I also noticed that the Francophones in Ontario were very concerned about losing their French culture, so perhaps for them, if they gave up their Catholicism, it would be, to them, like giving up their French culture. I can understand then, why it's taken longer to shed their religion in Ontario, as they are surrounded by English culture, and fear losing their heritage.