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Child Preacher + Prosperity Gospel = Epic Failure


Burris

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I've found

where a young boy, five-year-old Isaiah J., stood at the podium at Potter's House Church where he offered a well-rehearsed prayer on behalf of the membership.

I don't think kids should be in the pulpit at all; they're not qualified to teach because they lack sufficient life experience. Certain pastors justify the practice of using children in this manner, however, citing Paul's counsel to Timothy: “Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe.†– 1 Timothy 4:12

Timothy was probably not a “youth†as we understand it, but rather he was young when compared to other clerics of his time. Even if he were exceptionally young, however, it doesn't follow that babies and toddlers should be subjected to the podium and exploited for money.

But worse than a child-preacher is one who has been taught lies, for “...whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.†– Matthew 18:6

This is what has occurred at TD “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGmLFSPkyhs†Jakes' church, where Isaiah J. was coached to say these things:

“I decree and declare they are a steward of great wealth.â€

“I decree and declare they would never be broke a day in their life.â€

“I decree and declare God equips them with multiple streams of income at a young age.â€

“I decree and declare God equips them with multiple multi-million dollar ideas, inventions, and strategies.â€

Job, a righteous man, lost all that he owned precisely because he was righteous. Ruth gave up security to follow her destitute mother-in-law, and to work in the fields, precisely because she was virtuous. And it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

That said, by no means do I think it's a crime to be wealthy. There is nothing wrong with seeking ease and stability for one's family, or even with having an excess of good fortune, just so long as one recalls this: “And he would answer and say to them, 'The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.'†– Luke 3:11

Saying the righteous will never be broke is not conducive to sharing, since this kind of thinking feeds an underlying assumption that a man with no tunic probably doesn't deserve to have one.

It's difficult for me to express just how much contempt I have for mega-church pastors as a class, but in particular those who preach the Prosperity Gospel.

The Bible says the righteous and unrighteous suffer alike and die alike, the only difference being that the former furthered the “Kingdom of God†in life while the latter did not.

All flesh is grass. And so it is that Jakes will one day be worm-food even as the most impoverished of his congregants, after having contributed little for the sake of lovingkindness – an Ozymandias. His contribution for our time is to teach – and to teach children, no less – that wealth is a reward for right belief (while implying that poverty is a curse for wrong belief).

It's entirely too rare to see pastors being called out for their damnable lies. Instead they, like Robert Schuller, tend to be rewarded or at least allowed to keep their ill-gotten gain.

If Christianity is despised, they're part of the reason for it.

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I've found
where a young boy, five-year-old Isaiah J., stood at the podium at Potter's House Church where he offered a well-rehearsed prayer on behalf of the membership.

It's entirely too rare to see pastors being called out for their damnable lies. Instead they, like Robert Schuller, tend to be rewarded or at least allowed to keep their ill-gotten gain.

If Christianity is despised, they're part of the reason for it.

Hey, on my website I recommend T.D. Jakes as one of the "Five Best Preachers in the USA".

thenewholybible.org/the_top_five_preachers.htm

Now Robert Schuller and the Crystal Cathedral I do not.

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We have a Potter's House here (it's pretty big and you can't miss it when driving I-70), but I had no idea about their specific beliefs (health&wealth gospel crap). I assumed it was like Vineyard or one of those types of churches.

Kids preaching in general makes me very uncomfortable. It's one reason I was disturbed by Jesus Camp. It's just not appropriate for children who haven't even had time to discover what they believe preaching. It's gimmicky and exploitive. They are just parroting what they're told by adults and I'm not sure how anyone feels "blessed" by that.

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Hey, on my website I recommend T.D. Jakes as one of the "Five Best Preachers in the USA".

I know I'm going to regret this, but I just can't help myself. What about that man, besides his 'passion' (which you cited), would make him one of the five best preachers in the US?

How can someone effectively lead a church of 30 000? The Good Shepherd, who is the Christ, knows all his flock by name. Can Jakes identify any but the most wealthy of his congregants?

How can someone justify openly treating Jesus as a product to be sold?

No, seriously - I'm asking in earnest: With all the great little preachers doing double-duty in the homeless shelters (etc.), why would God happen to recognize and recommend only the most well-known? Did he appoint these men to such wealth and power that they no longer walk among the common people?

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That is one hell of a talented wee speaker. I was seriously impressed. He can hold and convict an audience at his age, and he was great.

However, yeah, um, content. How does anyone get the prosperity gospel from the Bible? It is mental. Everything Jesus said was the opposite.

One of the craziest things a Christian ever said to me was "Jesus would approve of limited tactical nuclear strikes on the Middle East." I still have no words for that. This kid, likewise.

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At the Southern Baptist church that some of my family members attend, they have one day a year where the kids take over and do the entire Sunday service. It's a very small church, so each child gets to contribute. My niece wrote and preached the sermon one year. It was about God's love. She also led the singing because the kid who was supposed to do it didn't show up. My younger niece is too shy to get up in front of all those people, but she likes to pass the collection plate. The little boy who preached the sermon the year after my niece would have drawn the ire of Steve Maxwell, because he used many sports analogies.

I didn't find the children doing the Sunday service creepy at all. It was cute.

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I know I'm going to regret this, but I just can't help myself. What about that man, besides his 'passion' (which you cited), would make him one of the five best preachers in the US?

How can someone effectively lead a church of 30 000? The Good Shepherd, who is the Christ, knows all his flock by name. Can Jakes identify any but the most wealthy of his congregants?

How can someone justify openly treating Jesus as a product to be sold?

No, seriously - I'm asking in earnest: With all the great little preachers doing double-duty in the homeless shelters (etc.), why would God happen to recognize and recommend only the most well-known? Did he appoint these men to such wealth and power that they no longer walk among the common people?

You know, the easiest way to know T.D. Jakes is to watch him.

About 20 sermon should do it.

He is effective, and he does not ask for money, just a small sign off at the end.

If you watched 20 of his sermons, you would get caught up in his passion.

I mean the sweat literally flows off his brows.

He will soak a whole napkin in a sermon.

I don't know anybody who can do that.

Except him.

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FloraDoraDolly, it sounds like the service you describe isn't a bunch of brainwashing, sounds cute.

In general I'm not to happy when kids are used to promote an agenda. When others put words in their mouths and teach them how to present them to others. Every once in a while somebody will post a video of a kid speaking about something, and it might even be something I agree with, but when it's obvious that the child has just had some viewpoint pounded into their head and basically told that they have to speak that viewpoint it really makes me mad. Why USE kids like that? I'm not too big on prodigies being shown off all over either.

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At the Southern Baptist church that some of my family members attend, they have one day a year where the kids take over and do the entire Sunday service. It's a very small church, so each child gets to contribute. My niece wrote and preached the sermon one year. It was about God's love. She also led the singing because the kid who was supposed to do it didn't show up. My younger niece is too shy to get up in front of all those people, but she likes to pass the collection plate. The little boy who preached the sermon the year after my niece would have drawn the ire of Steve Maxwell, because he used many sports analogies.

I didn't find the children doing the Sunday service creepy at all. It was cute.

I have no problem at all with this. It is nothing at all like the situation of kids being used like Marjoe was.

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You know, the easiest way to know T.D. Jakes is to watch him.

About 20 sermon should do it.

He is effective, and he does not ask for money, just a small sign off at the end.

If you watched 20 of his sermons, you would get caught up in his passion.

I mean the sweat literally flows off his brows.

He will soak a whole napkin in a sermon.

I don't know anybody who can do that.

Except him.

I have watched TD Jakes – although not for 20 minutes straight, to be fair. I don't deny he's passionate about his work. God knows he should be; he gets paid enough for it.

His content is often a mixture of self-help and Prosperity Gospel, neither of which is terribly Biblical. He fleeces shears [brain fart] his flock and then he takes their hides as well. And yes he does ask for money; his entire website is a giant commercial plug for his books and other crap.

The New Testament says Jesus was the Messiah and died as an innocent substitute for guilty sinners - an act that, for Jewish converts, ended the system of animal sacrifice they had to carry out continually as expiation for human sin. For converts of other backgrounds, it had a similar effect in that they no longer had to pay spiritual tribute to a number of household or state-sponsored gods (such as the Caesars).

Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world and that the Caesars could have their money, which they had minted in their own likeness, because it belonged to their earthly kingdom and not to God's heavenly one.

The Gospel message is absolutely, and for all times, free. People can take it or leave it, but whatever they choose to do about it, they should never have to pay one solitary cent to access it.

They can tithe for the continued operation of their own church, if they're members (and non-members should never give anything for church-related/administrative expenses), but that money - that particular money, from members' offerings - should be the very stuff spent on producing materials for parishioners and non-parishioners alike to read.

Pastors might earn a salary, but they should also have a regular job unless they can show how their work - e.g., visiting hospices - might take up too much time for them to find additional employment.

Churches that don't also operate as charitable organizations that serve the public good, and that follow all the same procedures as other charities, should also be taxed. They're run like businesses; they should be taxed like businesses.

Instead, however, with TD Jakes and so many others, that money, and money from non-members, goes towards supporting a lavish lifestyle for the pastor and his family - and then even after that, everyone who wants to benefit by the pastor's "wisdom" is expected to pay additional money for books and CDs and videos and "novelties" allegedly based on a Gospel message that should be absolutely free: "For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God." -- 2 Corinthians 2:17

The Potter's House has an online store attached to its website, right alongside a donation button, where you can buy CD Audio Singles, DVD Singles, CD Audio Series, DVD Series, Miscellanious Sets, Music, Potter's House Services, Digital Audio MP3 Messages, Books, Novelties, Espanol, and 'Woman, Though Art Loosed.'

I'm not trying to be unreasonable: I know printing books and CDs costs money, and this money isn't just going to appear magically in church coffers - but how much does it cost Potter's House to make their MP3 Messages free for downloading? Instead, those MP3 messages, which are cheap as dirt to put up, cost $7.99 per download.

Once a customer has collected all the messages and novelties and so on, she can still donate: On the page where donations are accepted, it reads simply, "Thank you for contributing! Your contribution helps, this ministry, to bring the good news of Christ to the entire world." And then it offers several different levels of donation, each with its attendant privileges - including the "Bishop Circle VIP Commitment."

One can also make a, um, "MegaCare Donation."

This MegaCare donation supposedly goes towards famine relief.

I searched for an annual report to see just how much of the money one donates will actually go towards feeding the hungry. There isn't one.

Jakes' "ministry" has received a Transparency Grade of 'F' - for BIG FUKKEN FAILURE - from Ministry Watch.

"Passion" doesn't matter nearly as much as integrity - and, from what I can tell, TD Jakes is short on the latter.

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I have watched TD Jakes – although not for 20 minutes straight, to be fair. I don't deny he's passionate about his work. God knows he should be; he gets paid enough for it.

Well he deserves his dough.

And it takes a lot of money to cover all the tv markets.

And every person who sees his show, benefits.

He has paid his dues, not so many years ago they turned off his electricity for non payment.

It is not a bed of roses to be a preacher.

But he is a cost effective one, a lot of bang for your buck.

And if now, he has a few extra shekels?

It says in the bible that "you do not muzzle an ox when he is grinding grain".

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And it takes a lot of money to cover all the tv markets.

He makes it all back with interest. If he didn’t, he'd be selling something else more lucrative.

And every person who sees his show, benefits.

That's your opinion. Mine is that every old widow who watches his show and then sends in part of her fixed income to 'help end famine,' even despite never having seen an annual report to prove that's where her bucks are going, is actually being harmed by watching TD Jakes.

He has paid his dues, not so many years ago they turned off his electricity for non payment.

Big deal. Jakes' having had financial trouble in his life doesn't entitle him to peddle religion to the vulnerable and the gullible. Now, because of him, other people of limited means are throwing money at his church when they could be spending it on their own utility bills.

It is not a bed of roses to be a preacher.

ORLY? What's so hard about Jakes' job? Is it the money? The private transport? The sprawling mansion? The thousands of devoted followers (whom he never has to see, let alone provide spiritual care for)?

But he is a cost effective one, a lot of bang for your buck.

I'll have to see an annual report before I believe that.

It says in the bible that "you do not muzzle an ox when he is grinding grain".

Truth! Consider the ox, tormented when he has to plow muzzled.

Jakes is not an ox, but an ox-driver – and he muzzles his oxen.

He doesn't tread the corn; they do. He doesn't pay the bills; they do. And he doesn't allow them to freely graze -e.g., by downloading free MP3s - as they work to keep him in the lifestyle to which he has become accustomed.

He can complain about being muzzled when he takes up the yoke and pulls his own plow.

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Wow, that's a lot of sweat. I'm sold.

:lol: :lol:

Reminds me of the various people who, over the years, have been introduced as "The hardest-working man/woman in show business . . . "

Yeah, so?

Ability in performers, and integrity in preachers, both strike me as more important.

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He makes it all back with interest. If he didn’t, he'd be selling something else more lucrative.

That's your opinion. Mine is that every old widow who watches his show and then sends in part of her fixed income to 'help end famine,' even despite never having seen an annual report to prove that's where her bucks are going, is actually being harmed by watching TD Jakes.

Big deal. Jakes' having had financial trouble in his life doesn't entitle him to peddle religion to the vulnerable and the gullible. Now, because of him, other people of limited means are throwing money at his church when they could be spending it on their own utility bills.

ORLY? What's so hard about Jakes' job? Is it the money? The private transport? The sprawling mansion? The thousands of devoted followers (whom he never has to see, let alone provide spiritual care for)?

I'll have to see an annual report before I believe that.

Truth! Consider the ox, tormented when he has to plow muzzled.

Jakes is not an ox, but an ox-driver – and he muzzles his oxen.

He doesn't tread the corn; they do. He doesn't pay the bills; they do. And he doesn't allow them to freely graze -e.g., by downloading free MP3s - as they work to keep him in the lifestyle to which he has become accustomed.

He can complain about being muzzled when he takes up the yoke and pulls his own plow.

He pulls his own plow.

He is the one who delivers the sermons.

That is the hard part.

If he has a nice lifestyle, that must be God's will.

You really can't do anything, lest it be God's will.

The proof is in the pudding.

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