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Courtship (also Hi!!)


GinaM

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I'm a long time lurker, first time poster, but this finally made me cave and create and account. I lurk on a wedding board because though we have no date set, we do plan on getting hitched (eventually). :D

So meanwhile, this post sort of ticked me off. I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but i was just really unhappy about my fun little wedding board going all fundy.

http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/any-betrothalcourtship-bees-out-there

The courtship/betrothal girl got super defensive when people brought up their own opinions in a very calm way. She also gave a shout out to Gothard

"It's taught and encouraged in some strict Fundamental Baptist circles too (which is what I am). Pastor S.M. Davis and Bill Gothard preach it. (I don't agree with EVERYTHING Davis or Gothard says, but on this subject, I agree with the majority of what they say. Simply because, there are Bible principles there. Hard to argue with the Bible! LOL!)"
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It`s actually quite easy to argue with the Bible, especially for those of us who don`t believe it`s the word of God.

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It`s actually quite easy to argue with the Bible, especially for those of us who don`t believe it`s the word of God.

It's the smug little 'LOL' there that gets me. The easy laugh of "of course, that's so obvious that I don't even need to think about it."

Anyway - hello, GinaM! I'm quite new here too. Once delurked it's hard to go back!

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From one of the posters:

Remember that love is not an emotion. It is a choice. Really, no one "falls in love." They make a mental decision to love that person. A lot of people do this without realizing it, hence, "falling" in love. You can decide who to love.
Ok, there are NO smilies that can properly express my reaction to this. Poor girl...
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From one of the posters:

Ok, there are NO smilies that can properly express my reaction to this. Poor girl...

I sorta agree halfway with this. You can't force yourself to fall in love with someone just because they are suitable, but you can take steps to prevent yourself from falling for someone unsuitable. I mean, say you are having feelings for someone, but that person is already married, or doesn't meet the criteria for a partner that you know you can be happy with, or is some sort of general douchebag. If you're smart and taking steps to protect yourself, you will limit unnecessary contact with that person, you do your best to stop thinking about that person, you will not mope about and brood, you will try to meet other, more suitable people. Then, through these efforts, you will have succeeded in not falling in love with the wrong person.

I also don't think arranged marriage necessarily means not falling in love.

But OMG, did you guys see this story?

because a broken heart is the worst thing ever!!

I followed courtship for my first marriage. Right before I left him, he burned my skin with a curling iron and cut my arms with a kitchen knife. Courtship does not allow you to ever be alone with the other person, which does not allow for a person's true character to ever come through. Everyone is always on your best behavior. I would never recommend courtship to anyone.

However, my fiance and I are both Christians, and we dated. (We technically met on Facebook, but we went to the same Baptist college, and I was friends with his brother in college.) We rarely have double dated or had chaperoned dates. We both live with our parents, and frequently spend the night at each other's house (we live 50 miles apart). There have been tons of opportunities to have sex, but we have not. It can be done! We also have dated with the intent to marry from the very beginning. Most people I know have done that.

If you date, here are ways to avoid a broken heart:

1. Only date Christian guys, and make sure they know from the first or second date that you are only dating to see if you could marry them. Make sure they know marriage is your goal, and if they want something else, you are not available. Be nice about it, but be firm.

2. After 6 months, evaluate the relationship. Never date more than 6 months if you aren't certain he is the right man. You should be able to tell by then if he is marriage material or not.

3. Don't put yourself in a situation where it's easy to have sex - no dark parking lots, and don't let him in your apartment late at night if you live alone.

Most of my friends in Bible college and in church have married the first or second guy they seriously dated. I wouldn't worry too much about a broken heart. Good luck!

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From one of the posters:Ok, there are NO smilies that can properly express my reaction to this. Poor girl...

:crying-yellow: How about that one? That's how it makes me feel anyway.

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I sorta agree halfway with this. You can't force yourself to fall in love with someone just because they are suitable, but you can take steps to prevent yourself from falling for someone unsuitable. I mean, say you are having feelings for someone, but that person is already married, or doesn't meet the criteria for a partner that you know you can be happy with, or is some sort of general douchebag. If you're smart and taking steps to protect yourself, you will limit unnecessary contact with that person, you do your best to stop thinking about that person, you will not mope about and brood, you will try to meet other, more suitable people. Then, through these efforts, you will have succeeded in not falling in love with the wrong person.

Meh, you can do everything you can to try and keep yourself from loving someone you shouldn't, but it can still happen. Trust me.

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Courtship does not allow you to ever be alone with the other person, which does not allow for a person's true character to ever come through. Everyone is always on your best behavior.

How true--the obsessive monitoring that comes with courtship can mean you're hurtling into marriage with someone you don't know at ALL one-on-one. I'm thinking something like this is probably what happened with former YLCF doyenne Natalie (Nyquist) (Klein) (Ference) Jacobs and her first husband, Rick, who turned out to be a bad apple and ditched her a few months after they wed.

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:crying-yellow: How about that one? That's how it makes me feel anyway.

It doesn't even make sense, I've never chosen who to love. If I did, I could have saved myself a lot of heartbreak over the years. And Lord knows how many times that statement has been used by homophobes...

Anyway, as snooty and unnecessarily harsh as many posters can be on that board (don't ask me what I'm doing looking at that board when I'm not even close to being married, I don't know), I admire the sympathetic concern for the OP being displayed in that thread, especially by the poster called cubicalmouse. It's so vital to hear both sides of the story when it comes to things like courtship that sounds good in theory, but has high potential to cause even more heartbreak IRL than simple dating. The fact that it's a public forum as opposed to a blog makes it easier to offer up an argument, and even though one negative story clearly isn't convincing the OP that courting isn't a good way to go, any other women considering courtship may at least stop and think for a moment. Online communities can be more powerful than any of us realize.

Would you believe I considered trying out the courtship thing once? My family isn't remotely fundie in the slightest and my parents know me very well, but we don't attend any kind of church so no resources to make that happen. Plus I know for a fact that no one's true colors come out until you're alone with them. That's happened even with those I considered just friends. I'm so glad I never brought it up with them.

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Apparently the girl who started the courtship thread on WB is not engaged right now, nor is she courting anyone...yet she has her whole wedding planned, down to having the dress (for which she made a modesty panel, apparently), tiara, bouquets, setup of the wedding party, bridal shower details planned, etc. That's...unusual.

(I read WB a lot when planning my wedding. Usually it's pretty friendly, but every now and then the fur flies, which is pretty entertaining!)

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Apparently the girl who started the courtship thread on WB is not engaged right now, nor is she courting anyone...yet she has her whole wedding planned, down to having the dress (for which she made a modesty panel, apparently), tiara, bouquets, setup of the wedding party, bridal shower details planned, etc. That's...unusual.

O_o okay, I can understand doing things like that even when you're not engaged but you're extremely sure you will be very soon, but doing that when you're not even seeing anybody is just...I don't know. I mean I admit that I'm one of those girls that's had a lot of big ideas for her wedding ever since she was little, but I've never bought a wedding dress or bouquets or anything like that yet. Because while thinking about it is okay, what's the point of purchasing items and planning out the bridal party if marriage isn't definitely on the horizon? The dress may hang in your closet unused, forever. And even if you do end up engaged, it's possible your taste may have changed dramatically and you could never accept wearing that dress or using bouquets you agreed to long ago. Plus life happens, there may be fallouts over time in between the bride and her potential bridesmaids, or for whatever reason she just can't be a bridesmaid when the time comes. I'm not really superstitious but it seems like purchasing things like a wedding dress before any kind of courtship or engagement is kind of a jinx.

(Just to be clear, I'm only using a general "you", not singling anybody out...)

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Okay, not only does this girl own two wedding dresses (even before she has met her betrothed) and has planned the whole wedding (they are getting married in the fall, y'all, so G-d had better send the guy along at the right time of year) instead of standing on the left side of the groom she wants to be on his right because:

"....The reason I ask, is because (this may sound ridiculous, LOL!) my hair parts on the right, and I want to have a pretty French braid on the right, with a curly updo. If I was standing on the LEFT side at the ceremony, you wouldn't see the pretty braid! And I don't like parting my hair on the opposite side."

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Guest Anonymous

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This girl is comedy gold.

Here are her the raw materials for her 'wedding pomanders':

091-006_large.jpg

I'd like to get several silk flowers from Dollar Tree, and hot glue the flowers all around it, to completely cover it. Take off the plastic handle, replace with a coordinating ribbon. I was thinking of having some fall leaves and/or greenery coming out the top, like a little basket.

OR...I could buy some fabric and wrap around it to cover the face, then have some flowers and leaves coming out the top.

Thoughts??

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Aww...poor girl! Although the jack-o'lantern centerpieces and the hair-parting thoughts are hysterically snark-worthy, her pre-man wedding obsession is actually pretty tragic, if you think about it.

Seems to me this is what so many girls raised with these courtship expectations end up with - ideas about relationships that are all about roles. They've been taught by the likes of Gothard and S.M. Davis to ignore their human feelings and inclinations and instincts. (It starts very early, too. The Pearls, with their harsh teachings about the need to discipline young babies, are also about ignoring one's natural instincts.)

When it comes to marriage for these courtship girls, it's 1) an absolute necessity, unless one wants to end up an old maid Botkinette, living at home when one is 35...for there can be no other "truly godly calling" for females besides wife and mother; and 2) it's all about finding a man - any man - to fill the role. Doesn't matter what you might feel about a guy, whether he squicks you out or whether or not you can't even contemplate living without spending your days with him. Instead, the only thing that matters is if the guy wants to fill the role of "godly husband" in your life. Emotions and human instincts optional - and actually suspect.

That's why these girls can plan their weddings down to the most minute detail before they've ever even met their man. In their thinking, a husband is just a blank cutout. Any paper doll will do, as long as he subscribes to their family's ideas about patriarchy and roles.

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The person who posted "because a broken heart is the worst thing ever!!" meant it sarcastically. That's why she italicized it. She mentions that later downthread.

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It seems to me that she is more in love with the idea of a wedding than she ever will be with any man. She has already given away pieces of her heart, to idea of a perfect wedding. I can't really blame her though, because she won't have much say in who she marries, so how the wedding goes is basically the only thing she will ever have control over for the rest of her life.

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The person who posted "because a broken heart is the worst thing ever!!" meant it sarcastically. That's why she italicized it. She mentions that later downthread.

I didn't copy that post because of the broken heart thing; I copied because it's an absolutely horrifying courtship story. This part:

I followed courtship for my first marriage. Right before I left him, he burned my skin with a curling iron and cut my arms with a kitchen knife. Courtship does not allow you to ever be alone with the other person, which does not allow for a person's true character to ever come through. Everyone is always on your best behavior. I would never recommend courtship to anyone.

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If you're smart and taking steps to protect yourself, you will limit unnecessary contact with that person, you do your best to stop thinking about that person, you will not mope about and brood, you will try to meet other, more suitable people. Then, through these efforts, you will have succeeded in not falling in love with the wrong person.
No, you have succeeded in not following through on your feelings, much like a person can resolve not to eat candy or cookies or other junk food in order to be healthier. That doesn't mean the craving goes away; it just means you have successfully sublimated it.

And even if you go on, and meet someone else who is "suitable," and love them, it doesn't mean you didn't love that first person. Love is not a one-time emotion or a linear experience.

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Apparently the girl who started the courtship thread on WB is not engaged right now, nor is she courting anyone...yet she has her whole wedding planned, down to having the dress (for which she made a modesty panel, apparently), tiara, bouquets, setup of the wedding party, bridal shower details planned, etc. That's...unusual.

(I read WB a lot when planning my wedding. Usually it's pretty friendly, but every now and then the fur flies, which is pretty entertaining!)

I just noticed that someone actually called her on it... albeit very politely.

I just noticed I recognized your screename from a post about the bouquets you had made- so I checked to be sure it was indeed you, and noticed it looks like you have most, if not all of your wedding planned out in great detail. I'm getting from this thread that you are not currently in a relationship - am I reading correctly? Or are you in the courtship process now? Is it typical in this arrangement to already have the wedding planned - and that the groom would not have any input in to the wedding details?

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