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Dumb Priorities - a Rant - WBC


Burris

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I've been keeping track of the Westboro Baptist Church for five years now. As some of you may know, I maintain a website devoted to defending unpopular speech – and particularly the unpopular speech of WBC members. (Heh. There are quite a few people who don't like me. Go figure.)

 

Anyway, the WBC has been described variously as a fanatical cult (kinda true), a hate-group (entirely true), and even (incorrectly) as an IRL troll group that survives off the money from law suits.

 

All regular attendees of the Westboro Baptist Church, including young children, engage in picketing activities. Some go far afield while others stay within the vicinity of Topeka, Kansas, where the church is based.

 

Now, an interesting thing to note about the WBC and its members is that almost all of them are well-educated. The kids attend public school. They take in whatever media they choose. The church, being Hyper-Calvinist, believes media exposure won't hurt those who have been raised to be faithful just so long as they're among the Elect – and the non-Elect would fall away regardless of media exposure.

 

Only a few of them have chosen to leave the church. Most stay, and stay faithful.

 

While I disagree with nearly everything the WBC does, that's one thing member parents seem to do right: They teach their kids religious doctrine and have absolute faith this doctrine will stick even in the face of outside influence. That is how strongly they believe in their cause. That is how strongly they believe in their God.

 

Whenever I come across fundies that shelter their children like hot-house flowers, I can't help but to compare them unfavorably to members of the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

I just found a new-to-me blog called Olive Plants Around My Table (oliveplantsallaroundmytable.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-happened.html). Its author,. Lisa, spent a day running errands with her children. She wasn't too busy to notice a whole lot of things she dislikes, however, or to silently judge the people around her.

 

In a July 19 post, What Happened?, she laments the decay of modern culture.

 

 

Quote
Recently, my children and I were running errands. We had many stops to make - it was an all-day ordeal.

 

Here are some of things we saw........

 

In a restaurant, a young mom was more interested in her iPhone than her little girl (who looked to be about 3 years old). They were sitting right beside us and the only words I heard the mom say to her daughter were, "Sit down!" and "Eat!" She was so mesmerized by the little black box, she didn't even eat her lunch.

 

Yeah, some parents are distracted. For all Lisa knows, however, that particular woman was on her iPhone planning a funeral or arranging for a midnight move (alas). The fact this woman didn't eat her lunch suggests she was embroiled in something stressful, rather than merely being “mesmerized by the little black box.â€

 

And did Lisa do anything to ease that obvious distress? Did she send her own kid over to distract the toddler? Did she anonymously pay for the food? Did she even say a quick prayer? Oh hellll no. She simply filed the situation away for later mention on her blog.

 

Lisa goes on to offer three additional examples of things she saw that day which she didn't like. The last of them is as follows:

 

 

Quote
In the mall, we made a quick u-turn and headed for the nearest exit when I spotted the huge, trashy photos around the entrance to a certain undergarment store.

 

And this is where my intro about the WBC comes in: Kids being raised in that church are exposed – perhaps over-exposed – to the worst the world has to offer. They generally stick with their beliefs anyway.

 

I can't help but wonder whether people like Lisa actually believe most of what they say about God, given how frail they expect their kids' faith to be – such that they engage in ridiculous, overly dramatic behavior such as making a u-turn in the mall and rushing for the nearest exit to escape pictures of women in satin underwear.

 

Lisa then goes on to make a series of statements disguised as questions:

 

 

Quote
What happened to the good ol' days when parents cared more about their children than a "toy"?

 

Inattentive parents have always existed. There never were days when all parents everywhere paid more attention to their kids than to some outside distraction. Never.

 

 

Quote
.......when we didn't have to leave a place of business because of the trashy photos everywhere?

 

Lisa didn't have to leave. She chose to leave. That's not society's problem; it's her problem.

 

 

Quote
Our society is crumbling around us.

 

I am so sick of hearing every other day how the sky is falling. Yes, there are a lot of things gone wrong right now; a lot of things we, as a society, should address and soon. (The appearance of women's underwear in ads just isn't one of those things.)

 

Even so, however, there are so many people working hard every day, everywhere, to improve the world around them. Society is not crumbling; it's merely changing – and those who want to direct that change should be willing to get their hands dirty, rather than looking for a fainting couch whenever they see a partially exposed breast. People like Lisa are obsessing over minutia without showing any evidence they recognize the existence of bigger issues.

 

But here's my favorite part:

 

 

Quote
Michael Pearl says, "No doubt about it; effectively training up children in this current society is the toughest job you'll ever have."

 

May God help us to raise godly children in a godless society.

 

That's right! Lisa is approvingly quoting Michael Pearl – the very aasshole who would have at least three deaths on his conscience if he weren't a total sociopath. He's part of what's wrong in the world and yet Lisa runs to him for comfort, even while praying to raise “godly children in a godless society.â€

 

In short, Lisa's priorities are utterly skewed – and, as a result, her kids are just as likely to fall away as so many other second-genners who are fleeing fundie churches in droves.

 

She doesn't suffer this affliction alone, either; her fans are affected as well:

 

Robin says, “Sin is what happened. No honestly, that's what it is. I agree it's so hard to try to raise your children in a Godly manner.â€

 

Brenda says, “It is also getting more difficult to buy modest clothing! Sometimes I feel like I'm on a treasure hunt trying to find a top that isn't too low or shorts that aren't too short.†(BURRIS' TIP: Cut pants into shorts of an appropriate length, and otherwise dress in layers. It's not hard at all to find “modest†clothes.)

 

Maria says, “I feel as if I am under siege every time I venture outside my doors. I have to get ready for battle- put my blinders on and move forward.â€

 

But my favorite comment is from CanadaGirl: “I really hear you on this one. You wonder how long it will take for the Lord to come back. ((sigh))â€

 

That's right; CanadaGirl disapproves of how some people dress and of how some companies advertise, so she meets these challenges by hoping the entire world will end – and yet she sees herself as being on the side of the angels, bless her heart.

 

Oh yeah – that's definitely the kind of self-serving, fatalistic cowardice I'd want my kid to emulate.

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Guest Anonymous

Worthy rant.

I think a SAHM blogging all day with a blanket trained kid who wasn't fed on demand would not fit Lisa's parameters of distraction.

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Kids who are really sheltered are sometimes the kids who turn out the worst.

I grew up in teh hood, and I saw my classmates making serious mistakes every day. At a fairly early age, I said to myself, "I don't want to go to jail, get hooked on drugs, or have a baby at age 13. I'm not going to be like that."

Meanwhile, some of my classmates who weren't exposed to that stuff DID go to jail, get hooked on drugs, and have babies at a young age.

It's like the trite saying goes: ethics is what you do when nobody's watching. Kids have to know what's out there so they know how to keep away from it when they're on their own.

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I know a lot of kids with strict parents who are now the wildest ones I know. They're not fundies, but their parents wouldn't let them watch X, wear Y, smacked them for every little thing, was raised to say "yes ma'am" and "no sir", get screamed/nagged at constantly, and went to church every Sunday (optional).

Those were the ones who graduated high school by the skin of their teeth and skipped class to go smoke weed out in the woods across the street from the school. And a lot of them have kids now. They're about my age, give or take a year or two. Sheltering kids is NOT the way to go. It really isn't. Because then they go out in the real world, and can't resist. I have no doubt that most of the Duggar kids will leave. Maybe not Josh, maybe not even Josie (since she gets most of Michelle's attention), but a lot of them. It won't be as soon as they're 18, but it will be once adulthood arrives. Same for the Bateses and a whole lot of other fundie families.

It really isn't all that hard to find modest clothing anymore, anyway. And even then, just go to http://www.modestclothes.com and you'll find something you want. OR MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN CLOTHES. Even if it's just cutting an old pair of pants into shorts. I'm about to do that with one pair myself; the cuffs are getting really ragged anyway and have a paint stain. Even though it's bloody October (by the SC border...)

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How is it hard to find modest clothes? I just typed Target.com into the browser, selected women's clothing, and look what was for sale:

13580791.jpg

13740313.jpg

13491530_Alt02?wid=618&hei=618

Wear the above with a cami and you're good.

That's on the FIRST page of the FIRST store I went to. Yeah, must be hard. :doh:

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The problem with that, emmiedahl, is they don't really want modest clothing; they want "clothing that makes us look so utterly frumpy and ridiculous that people will take one look at us and know we're some part of some weirdo religious group." You can't mix faith with fashion, you know! :roll:

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I saw a brief bit of a young Phelps daughter being interviewed on a special in the last week (I think maybe on Oprah's new channel?). She was pleasant and well spoken- beaming with pride. As he asked her about her beliefs in who should enter heaven, she perked up even further, describing only those within the small sect as the chosen ones. "And what of the rest of us, whose beliefs don't match?" the interviewer asked. She replied with a grin that they would be damned for eternity. "Everyone? I'm going to hell?" he inquired. She laughed gleefully as she said yes.

You would think they were planning a party, she was so happy.

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I saw a brief bit of a young Phelps daughter being interviewed on a special in the last week (I think maybe on Oprah's new channel?). She was pleasant and well spoken- beaming with pride. As he asked her about her beliefs in who should enter heaven, she perked up even further, describing only those within the small sect as the chosen ones. "And what of the rest of us, whose beliefs don't match?" the interviewer asked. She replied with a grin that they would be damned for eternity. "Everyone? I'm going to hell?" he inquired. She laughed gleefully as she said yes.

You would think they were planning a party, she was so happy.

You ever see that episode of the Twilight Zone (?) where this omnipotent kid terrorized people all the time and threatened doom to those who failed to knuckle under and think happy thoughts about him all the time?

That's how the WBC views God.

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By my standards, which include pants, I dress very modestly. I am not going to stick out of a crowd because of my clothing. (If you want to, hey, go for it. It's your choice!) The fundie modesty standard totally flouts the actual meaning of modesty as they stick out like sore thumbs. Seems kinda prideful to me...

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When you deny someone something, you create a need, desire, interest. One that can become obsessive to find out for one's self what that denial is all about.

When you expose, experience, live, learn and explain, you remove the mystery and give a real choice. A choice based on values. A choice to the child/person you are trying to affect. The exposed child makes a choice of his or her own, which builds confidence and trust. A child denied wants, consciously or not, to know why, how, where, what...and will try to make their own connection, however that happens, even and probably especially when they don't even know what they're doing or why.

The jokes about police officer's kids being criminals and firefighter's kids being pyro's and preachers kids being...whatever...don't come from nowhere.

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You ever see that episode of the Twilight Zone (?) where this omnipotent kid terrorized people all the time and threatened doom to those who failed to knuckle under and think happy thoughts about him all the time?

That's how the WBC views God.

I'm not entirely sure I don't agree with them. (on that version of God that is, not the life of hatred stuff)

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This version of parenting seems to nearly never include to use of an event as a learning experience, where you can discuss and explain something.

I really don't agree with their screwed up values, but they would be much better at replicating them in their children if they exposed the kids to different views

and explained why their own are better.

Instead it's only shelter, shelter, shelter.

Are they too stupid or just to lazy?

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This version of parenting seems to nearly never include to use of an event as a learning experience, where you can discuss and explain something.

I really don't agree with their screwed up values, but they would be much better at replicating them in their children if they exposed the kids to different views

and explained why their own are better.

Instead it's only shelter, shelter, shelter.

Are they too stupid or just to lazy?

I disagree with this in terms of the WB folks. Their protesting around the nation at various events and locations provides them the opportunity to do just what you describe. They attend a dead soldiers funeral, with giant signs saying that the soldier is dead because God Hates Fags. They use this and other situations (campus protests, birth control centers) to display "other" ways of life, to reinforce their beliefs onto the children. By forcing them from an early age to display their hatred in very public forums, they are cementing these beliefs into the kids. From now on, their public actions must be reckoned with. A change of heart must somehow be able to negate those many acts, and let's face it, the eyes of the nation would be on them. It's just a theory, but I think that's why so many stay within the fold.

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I disagree with this in terms of the WB folks. Their protesting around the nation at various events and locations provides them the opportunity to do just what you describe. They attend a dead soldiers funeral, with giant signs saying that the soldier is dead because God Hates Fags. They use this and other situations (campus protests, birth control centers) to display "other" ways of life, to reinforce their beliefs onto the children. By forcing them from an early age to display their hatred in very public forums, they are cementing these beliefs into the kids. From now on, their public actions must be reckoned with. A change of heart must somehow be able to negate those many acts, and let's face it, the eyes of the nation would be on them. It's just a theory, but I think that's why so many stay within the fold.

Yeah, I meant the quoted fundie mom not the WB types, they are a lot of things but probably not lazy.

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When you deny someone something, you create a need, desire, interest. One that can become obsessive to find out for one's self what that denial is all about.

When you expose, experience, live, learn and explain, you remove the mystery and give a real choice. A choice based on values. A choice to the child/person you are trying to affect. The exposed child makes a choice of his or her own, which builds confidence and trust. A child denied wants, consciously or not, to know why, how, where, what...and will try to make their own connection, however that happens, even and probably especially when they don't even know what they're doing or why.

The jokes about police officer's kids being criminals and firefighter's kids being pyro's and preachers kids being...whatever...don't come from nowhere.

that and you don't prove your lifestyle is better if you don't give them the opportunity to for themselves that it is better!

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As some of you may know, I maintain a website devoted to defending unpopular speech – and particularly the unpopular speech of WBC members.

Immensely OT, but: link?

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I never understood the modest clothes thing either. You'd assume from them that all you can find in stores is tiny tank tops and hot pants. Most women I know dress fairly modestly. Quite a few, including me, wear skirts regularly enough, even if pants might now more comon. I certainly dress modestly enough most of time, for reasons of taste and because I'm sensitive to cold (hence no low necks unless it's very warm, for example). They have a knack for making mundande thing seem heroic.

Anyway, I definitely get the sense they have warped priorities, or as Christians they'd be more concerned with helping others than with their skirts and head coverings (I was raised Christian, albeit ebul Catholic, and I don't remember Jesus being that hugely concerned about clothes).

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WBC allows their kids to actually SEE the sin they preach against and I kinda respect that. They dont try to shelter their kids from the things they condemn. Sure, they scare the shit out of their kids that they'll rot in hell forever if they DARE to think about kissing someone of the same sex, but atleast they understand what it is they are protesting against. I think their tactics are base and rude, but they believe what they say.

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By my standards, which include pants, I dress very modestly. I am not going to stick out of a crowd because of my clothing. (If you want to, hey, go for it. It's your choice!) The fundie modesty standard totally flouts the actual meaning of modesty as they stick out like sore thumbs. Seems kinda prideful to me...

Totally agree.

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I don't mean to take the thread off-topic, but can you address what you said about them not being a troll group who baits and then lives off lawsuits? That's just always been part of my perception of them, so if I'm wrong, I'd like to know it.

I don't believe in sheltering kids beyond age-appropriate boundaries. And I think my idea of age-appropriate is a lot looser than many others would espouse. I still remember going on a foreign exchange trip with a bunch of American kids as well as teens from France, Sweden, Israel. We were in Europe and we were all able to drink legally. The American kids made such asses of themselves, while the teens from the European countries drank and had fun but didn't go nearly so overboard. I'd rather raise my kids in a more European way -- with sex and drinking not this Big Secret Grownup Activity You Shouldn't Even Think About. To me, it just makes these things more alluring, and leaves them with less education and less of a framework to make their own decisions.

Of course, it doesn't matter that your kids can't make their own independent, intelligent decisions if you're going to "College Plus" them, pick their suitors, and never actually let them be normal human beings.

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I don't mean to take the thread off-topic, but can you address what you said about them not being a troll group who baits and then lives off lawsuits? That's just always been part of my perception of them, so if I'm wrong, I'd like to know it.

I don't believe in sheltering kids beyond age-appropriate boundaries. And I think my idea of age-appropriate is a lot looser than many others would espouse. I still remember going on a foreign exchange trip with a bunch of American kids as well as teens from France, Sweden, Israel. We were in Europe and we were all able to drink legally. The American kids made such asses of themselves, while the teens from the European countries drank and had fun but didn't go nearly so overboard. I'd rather raise my kids in a more European way -- with sex and drinking not this Big Secret Grownup Activity You Shouldn't Even Think About. To me, it just makes these things more alluring, and leaves them with less education and less of a framework to make their own decisions.

Of course, it doesn't matter that your kids can't make their own independent, intelligent decisions if you're going to "College Plus" them, pick their suitors, and never actually let them be normal human beings.

This to the Nth. When in Europe I was, at first, astounded to see 14- and 15-year-old kids boarding trains with bottles of beer (where I live we can't even drink water on public transport!), and then tickled to death to see them happy, maybe a few of them a little buzzed, but most of them just relaxed and enjoying the brewskies.

The Junior Junebugs participated in NCADA and D.A.R.E. and sadly, all of them have the habit of drinking a little too much, more often than their Mama would like to see it. So it goes.

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Snip

I'd rather raise my kids in a more European way -- with sex and drinking not this Big Secret Grownup Activity You Shouldn't Even Think About. To me, it just makes these things more alluring, and leaves them with less education and less of a framework to make their own decisions.

Of course, it doesn't matter that your kids can't make their own independent, intelligent decisions if you're going to "College Plus" them, pick their suitors, and never actually let them be normal human beings.

We raised our kids pretty openly. We allowed them to sample the forbidden fruit of beer, wine, and hard liquor because as my blessed dad said, once you taste it you know it's not the forbidden fruit. I was raised the same way, I could drink the last sips of beer out of the bottle and knew that I wouldn't want to drink a whole bottle of it. That's not to say that I didn't go overboard and binge a few times in my wasted yout'.

The more you make it the apple hanging from the forbidden tree, the more they'll want to try it for themselves. This way it wasn't a huge secret thing.

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Before I see one more word of praise about the WBC, I would like to know in your vast research, if there are still any incidences of the rampant child abuse occurring that was accounted by the sibs who left WBC many years ago. Also, if they love to picket funerals of the dead, why hasn't anyone heard of any of their own brethren's passing? C'mon, these people may be whack-jobs, but they aren't androids! What must they do to prevent anyone from picketing their own funerals (that is, if they haven't paid off any funeral homes to keep the death on the DL)? I imagine the only way they could get around that is to have an arm of the family already involved in protecting their "ash-ly" interests?

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Before I see one more word of praise about the WBC, I would like to know in your vast research, if there are still any incidences of the rampant child abuse occurring that was accounted by the sibs who left WBC many years ago.

Oh - angry sarcasm. What a shocker.

The grandchildren who left WBC - Josh Phelps Roper and Libby Phelps, to name two - didin't mention child abuse. That was something Fred Phelps visited upon his kids when they were growing up, but it doesn't seem to be happening now.

If child abuse were the magic pill that keeps members in line, then other fundie groups - e.g., Pearl followers - wouldn't be losing second genners nearly as often as they do.

Also, if they love to picket funerals of the dead, why hasn't anyone heard of any of their own brethren's passing?

That's easy: It's because they haven't lost a member to death in about 20 years.

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