Bontragers/Bowers/Helferichs 14: It's An Insufferable People Contest!

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Didn't she or Alison go to Switzerland with a friend a couple of years ago? It seems like they knew someone there.

Allison went with a friend before she got married. 

[dawn9476]

Hayley's sister Grace posted this. I guess she doesn't live with her parents but, per Hayley's story, she lives in her own apartment close by. Hayley says that anything about them not being close in just gossip, and Grace is very busy at her own job. Grace's problem is with her parents, not her sister, so that's probably true and the sisters are close.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Haley is answering a bunch of questions. Her twin brother is named Hunter Magnum. That’s umm, very rural I suppose. What if he doesn’t like hunting or guns? She also said she doesn’t work and doesn’t care if she’s called a princess. She definitely still reads here. Hi Haley! I also don’t work. I like it too. But my kids keep me busy. 

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Haley is answering a bunch of questions. Her twin brother is named Hunter Magnum. That’s umm, very rural I suppose. What if he doesn’t like hunting or guns? She also said she doesn’t work and doesn’t care if she’s called a princess. She definitely still reads here. Hi Haley! I also don’t work. I like it too. But my kids keep me busy. 

Her mother recently posted a reel showing their garden choked with weeds and said that no one had worked in it for three weeks. Lazy-ass performative Christians. I guess Haley can't weed because it would mess up her manicure. 😐   And as being a volunteer, I guess Haley is just too busy being a shining Christian example for the rest of us.

I saw that Grace (who works as a paramedic)  recently went on a trip to Alaska to visit friends--by herself. I think she's much more independent than Haley. I wonder if she resents being homeschooled & discouraged from higher education. Its great that she is a paramedic, but I wonder if she wishes she were actually pursuing some sort of degree in the health sciences.

Oh, and apparently the Paul compound is next to this "Christian Therapy" place and the Pauls are very involved in it: https://sanctuaryclinics.com/christian-depression-residential-treatment-saved-my-life/

[JermajestyDuggar]

27 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Her mother recently posted a reel showing their garden choked with weeds and said that no one had worked in it for three weeks. Lazy-ass performative Christians. I guess Haley can't weed because it would mess up her manicure. 😐   And as being a volunteer, I guess Haley is just too busy being a shining Christian example for the rest of us.

I saw that Grace (who works as a paramedic)  recently went on a trip to Alaska to visit friends--by herself. I think she's much more independent than Haley. I wonder if she resents being homeschooled & discouraged from higher education. Its great that she is a paramedic, but I wonder if she wishes she were actually pursuing some sort of degree in the health sciences.

Oh, and apparently the Paul compound is next to this "Christian Therapy" place and the Pauls are very involved in it: https://sanctuaryclinics.com/christian-depression-residential-treatment-saved-my-life/

Haley and Grace seem to be living lives as polar opposites. Haley married young to a guy her parents seem to love and can’t stay away from the family compound for more than a week. She doesn’t work at all. Not even to weed the garden. But She’s doing exactly what her parents want so I guess she doesn’t have to do any work on their farm. Her sister moved out on her own, works long hours, and likely lives a very frugal life. She is not doing what her parents want and I’m betting they won’t help her with finances. It’s sort of like Jana and Jill Duggar. Jill had it harder because she didn’t do what JB wanted. They struggled financially but she had much more independence. Jana stayed home and did what JB wanted. She didn’t struggle for money but she also didn’t have the freedom. 
 

Haley, you are very young. Please remember there’s so much to learn in life. Don’t just explore new places. Explore new ideas. Make new friends. Try new activities. Visit new churches.

[HereticHick]

This was a surprising post from Haley Paul Bowers, but I am guessing that it was some sort of online bible college thing--notice that she doesn't even bother to tell us what the degree is in. In the same AMA, she hinted that they are using Natural Family Planning: 

[JermajestyDuggar]

27 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

This was a surprising post from Haley Paul Bowers, but I am guessing that it was some sort of online bible college thing--notice that she doesn't even bother to tell us what the degree is in. In the same AMA, she hinted that they are using Natural Family Planning: 

Oh I’m sure it was an online Bible college. She said she was so glad she never had to waste time going to a campus. I never felt it was a waste of time to go to class on campus. I learn so much better in person and of course I met so many people from different walks of life in my classes. 

Haley also said it was so hard to wait around in her single years. Until carver arrived in her life. Like didn’t they start seeing each other when she was 17? Hell I had never had a boyfriend until I graduated high school. 
 

She posted this advice. People really shouldn’t be asking her advice on anything. 

[postscript]

11 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Haley also said it was so hard to wait around in her single years. Until carver arrived in her life. Like didn’t they start seeing each other when she was 17? Hell I had never had a boyfriend until I graduated high school. 

I wasn’t allowed to date in high school, nor did I particularly want to. Was she expecting God to provide “the one” when she was fifteen? 

Haley has no idea how privileged she is. She married young, doesn’t work, doesn’t go to school, is subsidized by her parents, and apparently does nothing other than follow Carver around like a puppy and be obnoxious for Jesus. A baby is going to be a rude awakening. I was going to say she needs to find something to do with her life, but she’s so empty I’m not sure she would notice her current lack of purpose. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, postscript said:

I wasn’t allowed to date in high school, nor did I particularly want to. Was she expecting God to provide “the one” when she was fifteen? 

Haley has no idea how privileged she is. She married young, doesn’t work, doesn’t go to school, is subsidized by her parents, and apparently does nothing other than follow Carver around like a puppy and be obnoxious for Jesus. A baby is going to be a rude awakening. I was going to say she needs to find something to do with her life, but she’s so empty I’m not sure she would notice her current lack of purpose. 

I genuinely felt really sorry for her reading those answers. She just sounded so young, so ignorant, so naive. She has no idea what’s ahead. It sort of reminds me of Morgan from Paul and Morgan. She had no clue what was in store for her when she got pregnant with their first child. Now she has a toddler and a newborn and Paul is completely useless. He won’t get a regular stable job. He barely does anything to help with the kids. He goes off to play pickleball every single day while his wife is stuck at home with 2 kids under 2. At least Haley’s mother will likely take over all the childcare. She’s lucky. Her mom will do most of the parenting so she and Carver can go out on dates and just pretend like they don’t have responsibilities. 

[HereticHick]

56 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I genuinely felt really sorry for her reading those answers. She just sounded so young, so ignorant, so naive. She has no idea what’s ahead. It sort of reminds me of Morgan from Paul and Morgan. She had no clue what was in store for her when she got pregnant with their first child. Now she has a toddler and a newborn and Paul is completely useless. He won’t get a regular stable job. He barely does anything to help with the kids. He goes off to play pickleball every single day while his wife is stuck at home with 2 kids under 2. At least Haley’s mother will likely take over all the childcare. She’s lucky. Her mom will do most of the parenting so she and Carver can go out on dates and just pretend like they don’t have responsibilities. 

I felt sorry for her too--especially the part about not wanting to be "stuck at college" when she could be "having adventures" instead. [WTF does she thinks happens at university? I bet her parents have been yapping about the evils of college/college is a waste of money and a scam, all her damn life]

She also said that she cried herself to sleep because she was afraid she wouldn't find a godly husband. Clearly she believed that her ONLY PURPOSE in life was to snag a man, and it sounds like she started stressing about it when she was about 15.  I really doubt that they will go on missioncation now--I think she's too  emotionally dependent with her family to be away from them.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I felt sorry for her too--especially the part about not wanting to be "stuck at college" when she could be "having adventures" instead. [WTF does she thinks happens at university? I bet her parents have been yapping about the evils of college/college is a waste of money and a scam, all her damn life]

She also said that she cried herself to sleep because she was afraid she wouldn't find a godly husband. Clearly she believed that her ONLY PURPOSE in life was to snag a man, and it sounds like she started stressing about it when she was about 15.  I really doubt that they will go on missioncation now--I think she's too  emotionally dependent with her family to be away from them.

My niece just went off to college. She’s less than an hour away from home. But I am sure she will do great. I needed to go across the state to go to college. I know that now. Because I was not very independent and sort of a homebody. It was much better that I was forced out of my comfort zone and I was forced to meet new people. Because to be honest, if I’m not forced, I won’t do it. Even now at 42, I have to force myself to be more social. Because my automatic is to just be a homebody. I absolutely loved college. It was probably the most fun I ever had in a span of 4 years. I’m still friends with so many people from college. I learned way more in college than I did in high school. Probably because I was on my own. 

[3splenty]

6 hours ago, HereticHick said:

😐   I wonder if she resents being homeschooled & discouraged from higher education. Its great that she is a paramedic, but I wonder if she wishes she were actually pursuing some sort of degree in the health sciences.

HereticHick, I agree with your post, but wanted to add some insight.

I just want to say that paramedics are in short supply, work hard, get the brunt of a lot of emotions, are expected to perform miracles in a tiny space (ambulance) and have to be calm when hell is raining down around them. Paramedics can do everything and not need a physician's order to do it. They race against the clock. I've seen them bring people back and I've seen them try everything but nothing can be done. Kudos to Grace. It's a thankless, yet rewarding job.

Also, I have nothing against anyone who has a 4 year degree or more. But sometimes people with a higher education think they're better than anybody else (After working in medicine, I've often wondered how surgeons can share a practice--most of them I've worked with think they're too good for anyone "less" than them). I had a surgeon call a nurse practitioner "useless" because they "only" had their Masters in nursing. They may have more education, but your personality is just as important.

I've attended code debriefing meetings and it's not uncommon for there to be tears, anger, frustration, and relief. Providers hug nurses, nurses hug paramedics. At that point, our titles are meaningless--titles define our scope of practice, not the person. 

Edited August 22 by 3splenty

[JermajestyDuggar]

I will give a good example of how I was forced to be more independent and figure things out on my own. When I was in high school, I hated having to make phone calls like appointments and stuff like that. It was so anxiety producing. So I would always ask my mom to do that for me in high school. Well when I went off to college across the state? I had to do all of that myself. It actually became much much easier as I got older. And now I have zero issues calling to make appointments. Which is funny because my niece hates it! She always wants her mom to make the appointments. I guess we all have to do these things for ourselves. I’m afraid Haley’s mom and Carver are still doing those things for her. She’s not pushed out of her comfort zone. I assume that’s why they came home early from their honeymoon instead of staying the whole time. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

WTF does she thinks happens at university? I bet her parents have been yapping about the evils of college/college is a waste of money and a scam, all her damn life

Did her parents go to university? I know theyʻve made a living with various real estate & VRBO scams businesses as well as the shit from Plexus.

Looked at Amy Paul's IG story today and saw this, which is rather interesting:

Edited August 22 by hoipolloi

[dawn9476]

So that must be Grace's crazy job Hayley was talking about. She's a paramedic.

Edited August 22 by dawn9476

[HereticHick]

43 minutes ago, 3splenty said:

HereticHick, I agree with your post, but wanted to add some insight.

I just want to say that paramedics are in short supply, work hard, get the brunt of a lot of emotions, are expected to perform miracles in a tiny space (ambulance) and have to be calm when hell is raining down around them. Paramedics can do everything and not need a physician's order to do it. They race against the clock. I've seen them bring people back and I've seen them try everything but nothing can be done. Kudos to Grace. It's a thankless, yet rewarding job.

I wonder if  Grace's parents disapprove of her job for a variety of reasons:  1. She's employed by someone other than a family member 2. She's working with members of the opposite sex, in confined spaces, at all hours 3. She's doing what is not considered a "feminine" job

[Caroline]

45 minutes ago, 3splenty said:

Also, I have nothing against anyone who has a 4 year degree or more. But sometimes people with a higher education think they're better than anybody else (After working in medicine, I've often wondered how surgeons can share a practice--most of them I've worked with think they're too good for anyone "less" than them). I had a surgeon call a nurse practitioner "useless" because they "only" had their Masters in nursing. They may have more education, but your personality is just as important.

I wonder if many  doctors and surgeons seem to have such an elitist attitude because a large number of them have traditionally come from wealthy families with lots of privilege. People like that often look down on people with less education than they have along with lower incomes. (I know since I was a teacher for 42 years. Lots of privileged and super professional  parents where I live who think they know all about teaching because they have degrees.)  I'm glad things are changing and that a lot of new doctors come from more modest backgrounds. I've encountered both types of health care professionals - the snobs and those who know that everyone's life choices have meaning. 

[3splenty]

10 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I wonder if  Grace's parents disapprove of her job for a variety of reasons:  1. She's employed by someone other than a family member 2. She's working with members of the opposite sex, in confined spaces, at all hours 3. She's doing what is not considered a "feminine" job

That makes complete sense. And the humor of the medical profession can be a bit off-putting to others. Lol

7 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I wonder if many  doctors and surgeons seem to have such an elitist attitude because a large number of them have traditionally come from wealthy families with lots of privilege. People like that often look down on people with less education than they have along with lower incomes. (I know since I was a teacher for 42 years. Lots of privileged and super professional  parents where I live who think they know all about teaching because they have degrees.)  I'm glad things are changing and that a lot of new doctors come from more modest backgrounds. I've encountered both types of health care professionals - the snobs and those who know that everyone's life choices have meaning. 

Plus, that privilege can make them decide who gets the best care. But in the end, it comes back to you. 

I have a relative who is a doctor and he is very particular about who he'll see. He wants them to meet his standards. He'll complain about people who can't afford the newest drug on the market or having to fill out disability paperwork because "they didn't make good choices." I often remind myself that, by not caring about every patient, he's not making good choices, either.

[postscript]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

felt sorry for her too--especially the part about not wanting to be "stuck at college" when she could be "having adventures" instead. [WTF does she thinks happens at university? I bet her parents have been yapping about the evils of college/college is a waste of money and a scam, all her damn life]

College is an adventure. Yes, you have to take classes, write papers, and do internships. But college is just as much about being exposed to people from other backgrounds and learning how to navigate life on your own. Holding a work-study job is just as valuable an experience as freshman Econ. My favorite part of college was being able to sit with friends in the dining hall, a dorm room or the student union and discuss some concept we’d just been exposed to in class. I still miss those conversations. 
 

1 hour ago, 3splenty said:

But sometimes people with a higher education think they're better than anybody else (After working in medicine, I've often wondered how surgeons can share a practice--most of them I've worked with think they're too good for anyone "less" than them). I had a surgeon call a nurse practitioner "useless" because they "only" had their Masters in nursing. They may have more education, but your personality is just as important.

Some (not all) lawyers have similar attitudes. A good paralegal or legal assistant is worth their weight in gold. They are far more valuable than a young associate. But there are attorneys (mostly male, in my experience) who think passing the bar automatically gives them the right to talk down to anyone without a JD. 

[3splenty]

My adopted grandma used to tell us that the only time you should look down on anyone is to admire their shoes. And if it's necessary, tie their laces.

Homeschooling definitely did them a disservice. None of them had to leave their comfort zones, have the difficult conversations, get along with anyone out of their family units, or have their beliefs questioned. They couldn't grow out of the egocentric stage. Even a fundie-approved christian school would be better than that (I would hope).

[JermajestyDuggar]

By the way, their tiny house isn’t that tiny. It’s one of the bigger ones you would see on those tiny home shows. Because it has an upper loft as a spare bedroom. It’s probably the same size as a lot of apartments. 

[HereticHick]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

By the way, their tiny house isn’t that tiny. It’s one of the bigger ones you would see on those tiny home shows. Because it has an upper loft as a spare bedroom. It’s probably the same size as a lot of apartments. 

Yes, it's basically a gentrified singlewide trailer.

It is only going to feel "tiny" when they have a baby (that they won't be able to put up in the loft). I assume then mommy & daddy will build them a bigger house on the property and then "tiny house" will become a rental or will be occupied by a sibling.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Yes, it's basically a gentrified singlewide trailer.

It is only going to feel "tiny" when they have a baby (that they won't be able to put up in the loft). I assume then mommy & daddy will build them a bigger house on the property and then "tiny house" will become a rental or will be occupied by a sibling.

Since her parents seem to have a few airbnbs, they might just take one of those. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

17 hours ago, 3splenty said:

I had a surgeon call a nurse practitioner "useless" because they "only" had their Masters in nursing.

That's so ridiculous.  Doctors seriously can't function without their support staff - are they placing the IVs, answering phones, administering medications, running the diagnostics?  IDGAF what schooling someone has if they're pleasant and work hard when the chips are down.

[Angelface]

One of my school friend’s is a very senior palliative care nurse  in a large teaching hospital. In order to be taken seriously, and to be listened to as someone who spoke with authority and experience, she had to do a PhD in palliative care medicine so that she could use the title “doctor”. Now, when she is lecturing, the doctors listen. 

Edited August 23 by Angelface
Punctuation