Artemis (Cynthia Jeub) 4: Plotting The Grift for the New Location

[Jackie3]

12 hours ago, waltraute said:

Okay, so not the first to rebel and not the scapegoat. Well there goes that thought. I walk it all back. 

We really don't know if she was the scapegoat or not. It doesn't really matter. There could be a million reasons why she is less resilient. Maybe there were several scapegoats. Maybe she is more sensitive than the others. Maybe she is less intelligent. Maybe she does have a minor disability which her mental illness has conflagated into something enormous. Maybe she experienced something traumatic that the other kids did not. 

It doesn't really matter. What matters is that she is functioning poorly. Compare her to the Anderson kids, who were beaten bloody every day, but still are motivated to go to college and work. They are functioning way better than her.

Because it's not good for anyone to spend the day in bed, playing online and (I suspect) getting high.  It's not good for anyone to create boogymen (capitalists, etc) that make it "impossible" for her to do anything but lie in bed.  Even if all her boogymen were 100% evil, posting memes about how bad they are doesn't help anything.

[MariaariaM]

On 10/27/2024 at 4:35 PM, LilMissMetaphor said:

And why do you need to explain how giving works? We're all aware that if ten people gave you a dollar each you'd have ten dollars.  We also know that if one person gave you ten dollars you'd have ten dollars.  Why do you put that in there?

They're telling poor people they don't have an excuse for not donating. Ten poor people giving up a loaf of bread will help as much as one non-poor person giving up a quality cheesecake after all!

14 hours ago, waltraute said:

Okay, so not the first to rebel and not the scapegoat. Well there goes that thought. I walk it all back. 

Them having been the golden child could indeed explain a lot.

[MargieB]

They really need to come up with a budget.  Toilet paper and paper towels are predictable expenses and should be budgeted for.   They constantly grift for these type of items.  

[Jackie3]

10 hours ago, MariaariaM said:

They're telling poor people they don't have an excuse for not donating. Ten poor people giving up a loaf of bread will help as much as one non-poor person giving up a quality cheesecake after all!

Them having been the golden child could indeed explain a lot.

Life is more complicated than that. Dysfunciton can't be explained by putting people into a box like "scapegoat" or "golden child." For that matter, some childrne are both golden child and/or scapegoat during different part of their childhood.

A million things could have happened to make Art so dysfunctional.

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

54 minutes ago, MargieB said:

They really need to come up with a budget.  Toilet paper and paper towels are predictable expenses and should be budgeted for.   They constantly grift for these type of items.  

a budget and jobs, both of them

[FundianaJones]

I don't think they need these specific items. They just need money for whatever, but they know that begging for small, non-costly needs (toilet paper, dollars and cents for laundry, some change to make up a bill) will get them a shower of small donations adding up to a lot more than the specific amount named. I think that's how they are getting much more than they let on, by being deceitful. And that's why they insist on the "it all adds up" angle, to pressurise others to give ten dollars here, five here fifteen here... They make so much more this way. 

After all, when they tried to grift by mentioning a 50$ cheesecake, they got backlash for this extravagance (although I'm sure at that time they also got money from their hoodwinked donors).

 

[Giraffe]

5 hours ago, FundianaJones said:

I don't think they need these specific items. They just need money for whatever, but they know that begging for small, non-costly needs (toilet paper, dollars and cents for laundry, some change to make up a bill) will get them a shower of small donations adding up to a lot more than the specific amount named. I think that's how they are getting much more than they let on, by being deceitful. And that's why they insist on the "it all adds up" angle, to pressurise others to give ten dollars here, five here fifteen here... They make so much more this way. 

This. If they really wanted help with toilet paper they would be asking for a bidet and "family cloths" in which case they'd rarely need toilet paper. They proved with their move they flat out lie about how they're going to use the money. I'm confident saying: Art & Ryan are nothing more than entitled grifters. 

[Jackie3]

I've often suspected they use the money for weed and junk food. Nobody is going to donate for that. But people will donate for more "worthy" requests, like TP. 

Art isn't stupid. Asking for money for weed won't get anywhere. Asking for money for food will lead to food bank recommendations. Large requests will go nowhere because their followers are burnt out. Requests for meds will cause people to direct them to Good Rx or state programs.

But requests for small necessities like paper towels have some hope for success. 

Although I'm not really sure if paper towels are a necessity. I like them, but I could do without if I had to.  I'd certainly do without them before I'd beg on the internet. The older generation used a sponge, which they boiled on the stovetop to clean once in a while. Or rags.

Beyond the money, I think the fundraisers make Art feel cared for. They like to feel there is a community behind them, rooting for their success. Who wouldn't like that? But I think they are confusing that community with the unconditional love of a parent. Communities of peers can burn out, get frustrated, move on to the next cause. Good parents might cut off support in frustration, but it generally takes a lot longer.

Edited October 29 by Jackie3

[Maggie Mae]

Also, toilet paper is really easy to steal.  If they were "put your money where your mouth is" anti-capitalists, they would see nothing wrong with grabbing a roll here and there when they use public toilets. Some places lock it up, and maybe the places that don't wouldn't let them in, but 99% of businesses aren't going to even know that people are taking a roll or even just handfuls. 

And it's available at the food bank, churches, etc. But they also don't leave the house. They can just hop in the shower when they need to clean up. Or ask for bidet, as @Giraffe was saying. 

And they don't need paper towels. Paper towels are a luxury item. They can make do with reusable products. They claim that they want bamboo toilet paper for environmental reasons, how about not using paper towels? I'm guessing they also drink bottled water as well. 

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

20 hours ago, LongTimeLurkerOG said:

a budget and jobs, both of them

It's frustrating when you see people going through real hardship, devastation, horrendous medical costs and They are getting financial help Still when they both , or at minimum Art, could be working remotely or whatever. Get services like we talked about. Now, just had a thought... If they are receiving services and double dipping w the Grifting .... Wouldn't surprise me 

 

Ofc, in case it's not obvious, people with disabilities need support if that's their choosing/need, and depending on their situation, are completely capable to find employment. That's where Art is diverging from what the community has advocated for (from my interactions, education, etc)

 

Edited October 30 by LongTimeLurkerOG

[MariaariaM]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurkerOG said:

just had a thought... If they are receiving services and double dipping w the Grifting .... Wouldn't surprise me 

That's been my assumption. They don't seem to mind the effort of grifting so I expect them to be ok with the effort needed to qualified for official aid. But poor people deserve luxuries! So they pretend they're wanting basic necessities and spend the grifted funds on whatever takes their fancy. Pure speculation, of course, but it matches how they present themselves.

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

9 hours ago, MariaariaM said:

That's been my assumption. They don't seem to mind the effort of grifting so I expect them to be ok with the effort needed to qualified for official aid. But poor people deserve luxuries! So they pretend they're wanting basic necessities and spend the grifted funds on whatever takes their fancy. Pure speculation, of course, but it matches how they present themselves.

Obviously, poor people deserve luxuries, too (as we all know; * not a reflection of your response, just sharing additional thoughts!), but it's the way they go about it and condescend. Have I sacrificed before due to money constraints, layoff, budgeting for something big ticket, or A Move, yes! It's about priorities, finding ways to have little things here and there so you don't feel deprived or depressed, etc. I know they had a rough childhood but many have. I'll leave it at that for now and not write a novel lol

Edited October 30 by LongTimeLurkerOG
clarification

[Jackie3]

"Poor people deserve luxuries, and they deserve to take luxuries from others! So give me that quality cheesecake you just bought."

[Maggie Mae]

On 10/30/2024 at 8:24 AM, LongTimeLurkerOG said:

Obviously, poor people deserve luxuries, too (as we all know; * not a reflection of your response, just sharing additional thoughts!), but it's the way they go about it and condescend. Have I sacrificed before due to money constraints, layoff, budgeting for something big ticket, or A Move, yes! It's about priorities, finding ways to have little things here and there so you don't feel deprived or depressed, etc. I know they had a rough childhood but many have. I'll leave it at that for now and not write a novel lol

I'm not sure I agree that poor people deserve luxuries. They deserve the same rights, and same needs as everyone. But luxury items are luxury items. I don't deserve a yacht anymore than Art deserves a yacht for simply existing.  Paper towels are a luxury item. They stay home every day all day and have the ability to wash themselves and fabric. They also already have multiple luxury items - all the art and games and puzzles and video games and electronics and a million things to prevent them from taking steps to actively improve their condition and station in life. 

[Maggie Mae]

If they deserve any luxury items it should be things that actively help them succeed in life. Those are things that are different for everyone - like I'd say that Art does deserve to have a nice laptop that can help them write and post and earn money. Sure a chrome book could work and maybe that is nice for minimizing distractions, but it does feel nicer to write on a nicer keyboard and have it work consistently. 

[Jackie3]

I'm not sure what the word "deserve" even means in this context. Let' take it to an extreme.

I "deserve" to live to 100. But if I overeat, neglect my health, smoke and drink to excess--yes, I'm still "deserve" to live to 100 but I'm unlikely to get there.

Someone with terminal cancer also "deserves" to live to 100, but they are less likely to do so (unless they're 99). 

Art may "deserve" quality cheesecakes, or maybe she doesn't. Who knows? But she's unlikely to get them lying in bed posting hate memes about capitalists.

I guess my conclusion is this--perhaps we all deserve wonderful things. But life doesn't care whether we deserve them or not.  Some people get them through luck, some through hard work, most from a combination of both. 

Since Art has not won the lottery (luck), she is unlikely to get her luxuries without hard work. And that's true whether or not the internet calls her a grifter. That quality cheesecake will not show up at her door without hard work, even if it's the work of running a fundraiser for herself and telling half-truths about the things she needs. 

 

Edited November 1 by Jackie3

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

If they deserve any luxury items it should be things that actively help them succeed in life. Those are things that are different for everyone - like I'd say that Art does deserve to have a nice laptop that can help them write and post and earn money. Sure a chrome book could work and maybe that is nice for minimizing distractions, but it does feel nicer to write on a nicer keyboard and have it work consistently. 

I think this is partly why they're so confusing to me. Many people have the privilege of saying "I have the money for this expensive item or that expensive item but not both. This item is more important to me than that item so I'll get the higher end of this and the cheap version of that." But Art seems to believe they deserve high end everything. That's simply not realistic for most of us. And many people don't have the luxury of anything more expensive. So it's hard to have any amount of sympathy for them when every fucking thing they're demanding is out of most people's financial means. A $50 cheesecake? Are you fucking kicking me?!  But yet like you said, I would think $1000 for a laptop could get them a decent enough laptop. They'd insist the $5000 alienware is the ONLY one that will meet their needs!

eta: I'm not saying it's always bad to buy a $50 cheesecake. Just using their own ridiculousness to make a point. 

Edited November 1 by Giraffe

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

I didn't mean a yacht or expensive items, necessarily. Small things can also be considered "luxuries" - yes, the better ice cream rather than the $2 gal (I've done both, not at the same time lol). Hope that makes sense. I need to make dinner lol long day ..I could come up with more examples to explain later 

 

I don't think I would ever buy a $50 cheesecake unless it was for an event (like a wedding, etc. Yea, I know they're more- I wouldn't spend a shit ton.. I pick and choose what I splurge or scrimp on 

Edited November 1 by LongTimeLurkerOG

[Coconut Flan]

The thing with the word "deserve" is it always kind of raises my ire.  I was brought up with grandparents, aunts, uncles, and parents telling all of us kids, you deserve what you earn. I had an older cousin who liked to whine that she deserved whatever her want of the day was.  Therefore, deserve sets my teeth on edge.  Humanity means they deserve food, clothing, and safe shelter.  After that it gets negotiable on what comprises those items.  No one innately deserves luxury items.  To keep life going and cheer people up, it's always nice to have a treat now and again.  I get the feeling the entitlement twins are either very confused on that aspect of life or they use the word deserve and the high priced things as a ruse.  

I was at Costco and saw the Liquid IV stuff they "needed" while beside it was a generic electrolyte replacement for maybe a quarter of the cost.  Really I could afford either one, but guess which one went home with me?  I wasn't brought up with concept of "deserving" anything my eyes hit upon that I might want or that anyone else in the world owed an adult anything.

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

35 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The thing with the word "deserve" is it always kind of raises my ire.  I was brought up with grandparents, aunts, uncles, and parents telling all of us kids, you deserve what you earn. I had an older cousin who liked to whine that she deserved whatever her want of the day was.  Therefore, deserve sets my teeth on edge.  Humanity means they deserve food, clothing, and safe shelter.  After that it gets negotiable on what comprises those items.  No one innately deserves luxury items.  To keep life going and cheer people up, it's always nice to have a treat now and again.  I get the feeling the entitlement twins are either very confused on that aspect of life or they use the word deserve and the high priced things as a ruse.  

I was at Costco and saw the Liquid IV stuff they "needed" while beside it was a generic electrolyte replacement for maybe a quarter of the cost.  Really I could afford either one, but guess which one went home with me?  I wasn't brought up with concept of "deserving" anything my eyes hit upon that I might want or that anyone else in the world owed an adult anything.

This is true. Though, my mindset now, after all the BS and putting exPOS first and rarely spending extra for myself, is that I *deserve* all the things, whatever LOL But that's me taking back my life, I am responsible about money, and some things that were a "need" that I put off buying or a "want". I'm also spacing things out, because I'm not insane! Plus, I've been making  my own damn $$ since I was a teen 😉

Didn't grow up with the "right" labels, lower middle class, wasn't given everything so I know the value of appreciating what you have. I think that's a difference, too w Art having the entitled mindset, as we've discussed before. 

[Coconut Flan]

Good for you taking your life back.  It sounds like you have some catching up to do and have earned some extra treats.  

[GreenBeans]

On 10/28/2024 at 5:01 PM, Jackie3 said:

It doesn't really matter. What matters is that she is functioning poorly. Compare her to the Anderson kids, who were beaten bloody every day, but still are motivated to go to college and work. They are functioning way better than her.

There are many scientific articles and studies on how resilience works. Obviously, on average, children from a loving, financially stable home have better odds at leading happy, healthy, successful lives as adults who are functioning well in society than children growing up neglected, abused and in a financially unstable home. Yet there are some children who manage to beat the odds, who grow up under devastating circumstances and still manage to overcome the trauma and go on to become happy, healthy, successful adults - why? No one knows for sure.

I would be careful to blame anyone who doesn’t manage to do so, though, just because there are some who do manage. Those are the exception to the rule. Also, an outward appearance of being a functioning adult doesn’t mean someone is actually thriving. They may have all kinds of struggles with mental health (PTSD, eating disorders, compulsive disorders, anxiety, you name it…), even when they appear to have it all together from the outside.

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

57 minutes ago, GreenBeans said:

There are many scientific articles and studies on how resilience works. Obviously, on average, children from a loving, financially stable home have better odds at leading happy, healthy, successful lives as adults who are functioning well in society than children growing up neglected, abused and in a financially unstable home. Yet there are some children who manage to beat the odds, who grow up under devastating circumstances and still manage to overcome the trauma and go on to become happy, healthy, successful adults - why? No one knows for sure.

I would be careful to blame anyone who doesn’t manage to do so, though, just because there are some who do manage. Those are the exception to the rule. Also, an outward appearance of being a functioning adult doesn’t mean someone is actually thriving. They may have all kinds of struggles with mental health (PTSD, eating disorders, compulsive disorders, anxiety, you name it…), even when they appear to have it all together from the outside.

Well, yes. Both things can be true. I can attest to the latter, in particular. However, when one uses their childhood as an excuse for example in re: to the first point, that can be problematic. Can, not always. Someone who is abusive, who was abused (or drinks, whatever), that is an excuse not a symptom or causal effect (entirely). Art's circumstance as an adult isn't entirely due to their upbringing. We've seen they were able to function and were deconstructing. more thoughts, but I'll pause for now 

but my hot take is that being with their partner is perhaps the crux (and crutch)

Edited November 2 by LongTimeLurkerOG

[Coconut Flan]

The current situation does not seem healthy or permitting personal growth.  In fact regression may be occurring.

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

55 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The current situation does not seem healthy or permitting personal growth.  In fact regression may be occurring.

That was my thought, regression.