i officially hate The Bates family.

[donks]

i had a 35+ year old gelding who wasn't anywhere near as thin as the brown Bates horse. they sicken me to my very core.

i posted on FHOTD about this, does anyone know if Cat is still in charge over there? i know she turned the free speech horse forum over to someone else years back....

[JenniferJuniper]

Shouldn't the Bates and Duggar girls be riding side saddle? Seems a bit unseemly for them to be riding astride in skirts. And then, of course, there are the, uhm.....vibrations.

[donks]

LOL yeah, especially on that 1 horse who was gaiting like a jackhammer. :lol:

[BoomerLynn]

^ absolutely! i didn't want to bombard possibly non-horsey people with too much info all at once.

good point....sorry if i made anyone's brain hurt :)

On another note....did anyone notice the girls riding in flip-flops? Do these people ever wear normal shoes? I have had a horse step on my foot. It HURTS. And I was wearing heavy duty work boots at the time. If any of those girls' feet had gotten stepped on it would have shattered almost every bone. In the same episode Jennifer fell off a saddle in their living room and was caught by the camera man (to which Michelle does her little giggle saying that the camera men sometimes save the kids from a fall even if they do have to miss a really great shot) and someone opened a door which hit Josie in the face and she fell backwards onto the tile and banged her head. The lack of safety precautions in these families astounds me.

[lilwriter85]

good point....sorry if i made anyone's brain hurt :)

On another note....did anyone notice the girls riding in flip-flops? Do these people ever wear normal shoes? I have had a horse step on my foot. It HURTS. And I was wearing heavy duty work boots at the time. If any of those girls' feet had gotten stepped on it would have shattered almost every bone. In the same episode Jennifer fell off a saddle in their living room and was caught by the camera man (to which Michelle does her little giggle saying that the camera men sometimes save the kids from a fall even if they do have to miss a really great shot) and someone opened a door which hit Josie in the face and she fell backwards onto the tile and banged her head. The lack of safety precautions in these families astounds me.

The Duggar girls most of the time wear flip flops in situations that can be dangerous. On their mission trip in El Salvador, one of them was wearing flip flops during a long hike and a poster on twop found the organization's website and the organization had pretty lenient rules regarding footwear and I bet a lawsuit or an accident will happen at some point. In another recent thread here, one poster pointed that in the episode where they worked with Habitat for Humanity the girls were wearing flip flops at the site.

My uncle had horses years ago and my brothers used to go riding with my uncle. A horse stepped on my oldest brother's foot and he was wearing heavy duty boots and his foot was bruised for awhile. A horse stepping on an unprotected foot could cause some serious damage. I'm surprised Michelle never takes more precautions to protect the J'Slaves. If one of the J'Slaves as a foot injury that requires using crutches or staying off their feet, it would hurt Michelle because she actually have to do more duties around the house.

Hiking boots, riding boots and good tennis shoes seem to be apart of Duggars' vocabulary.

[acheronbeach]

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/liv ... 98-101.htm

WOOT! Offtopic, but OMAFRA is my old workplace! I used to write these factsheets!

[Bookworm]

Not trying to defend them because I was absolutely shocked at the hips jutting out, too, but maybe their horse is just old? If I recall, the younger horse looked like it was in good shape, but I wasn't watching super closely so please correct me if I'm wrong!

The only reason I mention this is because I knew someone who had a couple of horses that were elderly and looked equally emaciated. A neighbor called animal control due to how "obviously neglected" the horses were, but when animal control came out to investigate she showed them vet records, feed receipts, the stables, etc. and they said everything was dandy. Still didn't stop the neighbor from complaining repeatedly, but the story has always made me think twice about judging a horse only by how it looks without knowing anything about it.

I agree with everyone who said they shouldn't be riding a horse so ill/old that its bones are jutting out, but being bony doesn't necessarily mean that its otherwise being mistreated.

I know of one case personally where the owners were feeding an old mule everything it could eat all day long and it was still starving too death. They put it down because its body was just no longer able to digest. However, in almost all cases people excuse neglect by saying "it's just old" when with a little extra care an old horse can be as fat as a young one. I had a 30+ mare who was on a diet when she died because feeding her senior food four times a day kept making her chubby.

[keen23]

Growing up we had horses, and all I can say is that they are a total time and money drain. They get fed twice a day, need to be let in and out of the barn, and on top of that need grooming, stall mucking, and every thing else that goes along with having large animals. It was always a chore to find someone to watch/feed the horses so we could go on vacation.

The Bates don't have the resources to take care of their horses, and should be reported.

[donks]

WOOT! Offtopic, but OMAFRA is my old workplace! I used to write these factsheets!

LOL it's such a small world! :)

[Spider Burps]

I know of one case personally where the owners were feeding an old mule everything it could eat all day long and it was still starving too death. They put it down because its body was just no longer able to digest. However, in almost all cases people excuse neglect by saying "it's just old" when with a little extra care an old horse can be as fat as a young one. I had a 30+ mare who was on a diet when she died because feeding her senior food four times a day kept making her chubby.

I definitely wasn't trying to say that all old animals are emaciated or anything! Sorry if it came across that way.

I'm just obnoxious because I try to convince myself that no one could knowingly starve an animal that much, despite the fact that it happens all the time. My friend's couple of horses must've been in that weird group of "can't keep the weight on", because she boarded other horses that were all in great shape. These old ones just spent most of their time wandering around the pasture because they were "retired", so they were very publicly visible and created all sorts of hassles for her and made her neighbors think she was a terrible person. They always make me try to think twice before accusing people of something as serious as animal abuse.

[donks]

someone on the Free Speech Horse Forum pointed this video out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHBO6A_VdBw

and there have been some old pics of skinny, neglected Bates horses posted there, too... they need to be reported and investigated by the authorities!

[Bookworm]

I definitely wasn't trying to say that all old animals are emaciated or anything! Sorry if it came across that way.

I'm just obnoxious because I try to convince myself that no one could knowingly starve an animal that much, despite the fact that it happens all the time. My friend's couple of horses must've been in that weird group of "can't keep the weight on", because she boarded other horses that were all in great shape. These old ones just spent most of their time wandering around the pasture because they were "retired", so they were very publicly visible and created all sorts of hassles for her and made her neighbors think she was a terrible person. They always make me try to think twice before accusing people of something as serious as animal abuse.

I was more just saying it for the record, I figured if your friend had vet receipts to show she probably was NOT neglecting them. I wonder if she could hire the neighbors to feed the animals once while she was on a trip so they could see how much she shovels into the oldies, LOL.

[NurseNell]

I have never, ever liked the Bateses. Near grown men dressing up like Woody from Toy Story? Come on. The fact that they kept breeding even though they were all crammed in to that little shithole they called a house? Disgusting.

That house doesn't look like a little shithole to me, it looks very nice and large. What they had before, not so nice and definitely little.

The only thing I know about horses is that they are very expensive to maintain. Don't you have to get them shod quite often too? (Is that what's it's called, when they get new shoes?)

If their horses really are ill kept and undernourished I hope something does happen.

So, the mother was pregnant in last night's show. Did she have her baby yet? Are they now tied with the Duggars?

Also, it said last night on the show the two dads had known each other for 15 years, which predates their TV shows. So how did they meet?

[NurseNell]

someone on the Free Speech Horse Forum pointed this video out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHBO6A_VdBw

[Kitty]

I hate people who abuse and neglect animals. That video disgusted me. It was not remotely funny or cute. That pony clearly did NOT enjoy a bunch of kids trying to climb on it, and I was just waiting for one of them to get horribly injured. I am by no means an expert in horse care, I've had very little experience with horses (think brief horseback rides at local fairs). I haven't seen the Bates' horses, but that pony... fffuuuuuuuu-

What pisses me off more is that Kelly won't stop pumping out babies long enough to work (the oldest girls are probably doing all the housework and child care anyway!) to support the family, and they're taking Lawson's money... to pay for horses they can't take care of, and Gothard's bullshit. Free Lawson! And the horses!

[CanadianHippie]

That house doesn't look like a little shithole to me, it looks very nice and large.

[Deleted03]

That house doesn't look like a little shithole to me, it looks very nice and large. What they had before, not so nice and definitely little.

The only thing I know about horses is that they are very expensive to maintain. Don't you have to get them shod quite often too? (Is that what's it's called, when they get new shoes?)

If their horses really are ill kept and undernourished I hope something does happen.

So, the mother was pregnant in last night's show. Did she have her baby yet? Are they now tied with the Duggars?

Also, it said last night on the show the two dads had known each other for 15 years, which predates their TV shows. So how did they meet?

[ilovetchotchkes]

I am enthusiastic proponent of flipflops simply because id go barefoot if it were socially acceptable when its warm enough.

That being said I would NEVER ride a horse barefoot or in flipflops. That's just asking for a broken foot.

[bananacat]

So they can afford fertility treatments to have more kids, but they can't buy food for their horses (or existing kids)? These people have effed up priorities. If I were in God's place, I'd be pissed that they're so irresponsible.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I haven't seen it yet--hope someone puts it on Youtube

[persuas1ve]

Holy sh*t! I lurk quite often but rarely post, however this just has to be noted for it's singularity!

Chrislukas (the "delightful" woman from the TLC boards) has actually posted a complaint on the boards in regard to this very topic:

"Ok, I actually have a negative thing to say. But it isn't against the Duggars, but the Bates.

I've been around horses a lot in my lifetime and those horses that the Bates had were very, very thin. Nothing wrong with a lean horse, but a horse's bones should not stick out.

If those were all their horses I have to wonder how they can afford to care for them all. Horses are not cheap animals to keep. But judging from their weight, or lack thereof, they must be on poor pasture ground and not getting any supplemental grain or hay. I wonder if they get shoed or vet care.

I always wanted my own horse, but once I researched all that a person really needs to provide - hay, grain, regular visit from a farrier, vaccines, worming, etc. I decided it was too much money. And that was for one horse. There were at least five horses shown in last night's episode."

A modicum of sanity, it's practically a miracle! That being said, at least she is quick to point out that she's not complaining about the Duggars.....

[3 is enough]

Yes, that is a miracle of sorts, isn't it?

[Boltingmadonna]

When we lived in Kansas, my daughter was in a Mounted Girl Scout Troop. I bought her a horse for $300 that had been abandoned by his owner and was going to go to the glue factory if someone didn't buy him. He turned out to be a real sweety, a good old horse for pleasure riding. But the farrier who checked out his feet told me, "The cheapest thing you'll ever pay for a horse is the purchase price." And boy was he right. If you aren't prepared for the day to day expenses, no horse is a bargain. And a cheap horse needs feed and vet care the same as an expensive one.

There was one horse at our stable that was a rack of bones. She was in her late 20s. She got extra special care, special wet feed because her teeth were too worn down to chew regular feed, etc. And she was still very thin. But she was definitely the exception. Under ordinary circumstances, that shouldn't happen. And this horse was no longer being ridden because she was quite obviously too old and weak. Eventually the owner decided that, much as she loved this old horse, it was time to let her go because her quality of life could no longer be kept at an acceptable level. A horse that can't gain weight under any circumstances shouldn't be ridden in that condition. I've seen horses in bad shape, and it's just so pitiful because they can't help themselves. They are totally dependent on their owners. I have NO sympathy for people whose whole schtick is what great Christians they are, yet they are oblivious to the suffering of animals who are totally dependent on them. Gee, if they treat a horse badly, I wonder how they'll treat a woman who is supposed to be totally dependent on her lord and master? Ride her till she drops dead--ya think??

[CanadianHippie]

Not to detract from the main conversation here, because the state of those horses was painful to watch, but:

Shouldn't the Bates and Duggar girls be riding side saddle? Seems a bit unseemly for them to be riding astride in skirts. And then, of course, there are the, uhm.....vibrations.

I know that at the very least the younger ones should be wearing helmets. I don't know a single horse owner that would allow young, inexperienced riders on a horse without a helmet on.

[longskirtlotsakids]

THis is why flip flops and hooves don't mix. Heh.