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Buzzard

"Sister Wives" File suit challenging bigamy law

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3 is enough

I really don't have a problem with them challenging the law- polygamy is not for me, but as long as the people involved are consenting adults, and not minors being forced into marriage, then really, who cares?

I do take issue with the whole "suffering" claim. The fact is, the Browns decided to go public on tv. If they never did the TLC show, they would still be chugging along in Utah. Their lifestyle was an open secret. Heck, Janelle worked for the State of Utah for years, and all was well.

It's all about the money. With their shady financial past, multiple bankruptcies, and use of government aid, it's obvious that they can't afford the lifestyle. And this is where my real issue with them lies.

Food stamps and Medicaid are necessary programs for families in need, and if people really need help, they should get it. But if you are in such dire straits, STOP HAVING MORE KIDS!!!! Christine was on food stamps for years, and continued to have kids. And they weren't "oops!" babies. She and Kody were actively pursuing pregnancies. Apparently she was still getting aid as late as May 2010, when Robyn came into the picture. So they couldn't feed the 13 kids they already had, and decided to take on a jobless mom of 3 who was in debt to the tune of 30K. Then she gets pregnant ? No. That's just wrong. Hell, they even went public with a registry for baby gifts. They will take money where ever they can get it.

Christine may be sincere in her wish for the law to be changed or repealed, but Kody is just in it for the money.

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Austin
I really don't have a problem with them challenging the law- polygamy is not for me, but as long as the people involved are consenting adults, and not minors being forced into marriage, then really, who cares?

I do take issue with the whole "suffering" claim. The fact is, the Browns decided to go public on tv. If they never did the TLC show, they would still be chugging along in Utah. Their lifestyle was an open secret. Heck, Janelle worked for the State of Utah for years, and all was well.

It's all about the money. With their shady financial past, multiple bankruptcies, and use of government aid, it's obvious that they can't afford the lifestyle. And this is where my real issue with them lies.

Food stamps and Medicaid are necessary programs for families in need, and if people really need help, they should get it. But if you are in such dire straits, STOP HAVING MORE KIDS!!!! Christine was on food stamps for years, and continued to have kids. And they weren't "oops!" babies. She and Kody were actively pursuing pregnancies. Apparently she was still getting aid as late as May 2010, when Robyn came into the picture. So they couldn't feed the 13 kids they already had, and decided to take on a jobless mom of 3 who was in debt to the tune of 30K. Then she gets pregnant ? No. That's just wrong. Hell, they even went public with a registry for baby gifts. They will take money where ever they can get it.

Christine may be sincere in her wish for the law to be changed or repealed, but Kody is just in it for the money.

I wasn't exactly feeling the Browns before this knowlede, but now I'm really not feeling the Browns! That's just crooked.

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mythoughtis
I don't really care if they get food stamps. Their kids deserve medical care and food as much as my kids, and the taxpayers pay for mine. I would be a giant hypocrit if I had a problem with that.

Well, I have a big problem with it. Their kids deserve medical care and food.... yes, they do. And, when Kody and Janelle were working, they had paychecks and health insurance. Didn't see Kody and Janelle being fired.... and I think there are still lots of polyg families with working parents. They can either support themselves and their kids or they can quit having kids.

I do not think peoples rights to pro-create are absolute. Responsible parents make the decision to hold off on extra children due to finances everyday. And, if the sister wives want to pretend to be married, then they can pretend that they don't qualify for goverment assistance as a result.

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3 is enough
I do not think peoples rights to pro-create are absolute. Responsible parents make the decision to hold off on extra children due to finances everyday. And, if the sister wives want to pretend to be married, then they can pretend that they don't qualify for goverment assistance as a result.

This.

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gustava

Polygamy is not merely a victimless crime committed by consenting adults. Children are involved, such as the Brown/Sullivan children. Even had they remained in Utah, the children in this polygamous relationship are affected. Even though they appear to be well-adjusted and happy (before Vegas, anyway), they are complicit in activity that is not legal. Children are the victims of polygamy.

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QAF_Rocks

Good for them! I hate Kody, but the Browns seem so much healthier than the Duggars and the other extreme fundamentalist groups talked about on FJ.

Polygamy is not merely a victimless crime committed by consenting adults. Children are involved, such as the Brown/Sullivan children. Even had they remained in Utah, the children in this polygamous relationship are affected. Even though they appear to be well-adjusted and happy (before Vegas, anyway), they are complicit in activity that is not legal. Children are the victims of polygamy.

How are the Brown children victims? Their family is only illegal because the state of Utah chose to make it illegal. It seems like the state is the one victimizing the children, not the family. If we believe that they were forced to flee the state to avoid criminal prosecution, that is.

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emmiedahl

The children *are* victimized by the activity being illegal; that is why I would prefer it be legal.

I am not a fan of breeding without regard for the children, but those kids need food and medical care as much any other child. It is like the welfare queen stereotype; we can have a lot of judgments about the mom, but I still want the kids to eat. If they received food stamps, that was probably fraud because you have to declare all of the household income, not just that of the parents. If you have roommates, then they have to sign a document swearing that they don't share your expenses or let you eat their food.

Kody & Robyn's baby registry had a couple of girl outfits. I guess they are for Truely?

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lovefromgirl

Children become victims in these cases because the state (both Utah and the big-S State) choose to limit the right to marry and be legally recognised as such to two people. Nobody is suggesting that polygamy ought to equal anything but multiple consenting adults. If polygamy were legal, I'd be married and safely provided for in terms of health care for the rest of our lives. It's not just a good idea so patriarchs can get their kicks, and in fact building in language that specifies "consenting adults" might serve to protect those young women who do find themselves coerced into "marriages" the state so conveniently can't sanction. Polygamy in the raw--multiple-spouse marriage--is a good idea for the protection of those families constructed around the idea that love is not limited to couples.

My reality deserves the same protection as yours.

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3 is enough

Maybe I am less understanding because the Browns have chosen to move to my state.

Yes, Nevada, the state with the highest unemployment numbers in the country, and the highest foreclosure rate. Our biggest source of revenue is tourism and gambling, and while the tourists are beginning to come back, they are not spending as much, and gambling on penny slots. Yes, we have gold and silver, but due to an antiquated clause in the state constitution, the mining companies only have to pay 5% tax on their profits, even though gold and silver are at all time high prices.

Our schools are overcrowded and lacking funding, our higher ed system has taken a blow, and our social services are underfunded even though the demand is at an all time high.

So really, I have absolutely no sympathy for a family who "fled" their home and jobs, claiming persecution, even though there was no evidence that Utah was even going to prosecute them. Manufactured drama for a tv reality show. Now they are here, with no jobs, most likely applying for assistance from an already over-taxed system.

And what do these geniuses decide to do for a living? All 5 of them are getting real estate licenses. Yeah, in the worst market in the entire country. Dumbasses.

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Boogalou

I have been thinking a lot about polygymy lately (also due to the cases in Bountiful) and I really don't have a problem with it being decriminalized because, like everyone else says, as long as there are consenting adults then it's fine. But, if someone here is polygymous/has thought about it, if polygymy were legalized, I wonder about how some things would work:

1. Say spouse one ends up in the hospital on life support. Spouse two says take #1 off while spouse three says leave #1 on. Does spouse #1 go on or off and who decides?

OK, one thing. I realized my other things were stupid after typing them out.

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Buzzard
I have been thinking a lot about polygymy lately (also due to the cases in Bountiful) and I really don't have a problem with it being decriminalized because, like everyone else says, as long as there are consenting adults then it's fine. But, if someone here is polygymous/has thought about it, if polygymy were legalized, I wonder about how some things would work:

1. Say spouse one ends up in the hospital on life support. Spouse two says take #1 off while spouse three says leave #1 on. Does spouse #1 go on or off and who decides?

OK, one thing. I realized my other things were stupid after typing them out.

You can have a living will that dictates how you want those things handled and who will make decisions. If you dont have one, you should.

I have an issue with polygamy in the same sense that I have an issue with the patriarchy. I find it curious that so many here are OK with it. The Browns are the smiley happy face of this breakaway sect... not all life is like that. The reason the law exists is because of the abuses of the past (and the present) on compounds everywhere where women and children are ripped apart, seperated from their husbands by force and given to another, married off as children and many other awful things. Is it selective prosecution? Maybe - but we select prosecution daily. Its the level of harm that triggers state action similiar to that of speeders. If you're going 9 mph over you're likely to avoid a ticket - got 15 and youre risking it - do it while youre drunk and youre fucked. Same here. If you "marry" only adult women who come to it by choice you're under 9 MPH - go on TV and youre nearing 15 and the cops are gonna look at you - violate another law and out come the handcuffs.

As for food stamps, if the kids need them the kids need them. We give them to people that have kids with 5 different baby daddys so I'm not going to get hung up on that issue. I'd love for people to be responsible and only bring children into this world that you can support and give appropriate time to (I'm looking at you J'chelle) but I've given up on people being responsible a long time ago.

This lawsuit is a publicity stunt. You cant challenge a law you are no longer subject to (you've lost standing) because you hypothetically would have been prosecuted under it. They made a big dramatic episode with police sirens (that had nothing to do with them) simply to support this "fear" argument they're furthering and its bullshit. Kody, if you want to challenge the law move back to Utah, walk into the courthouse and demand that they arrest you. Once youre charged we'll talk.

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emmiedahl

ftr, the reason the law exists is that everyone hated the Mormons and wanted to keep their state from becoming part of the union. It is not because of abuses, although I am sure they existed. I doubt that anyone in nineteenth century politics actually cared about the women.

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Kelya

I don't really care if they get food stamps. Their kids deserve medical care and food as much as my kids, and the taxpayers pay for mine. I would be a giant hypocrit if I had a problem with that.

I support food stamps, heating assistance, utilities assistance, free daycare and schooling, everything. Fuck, I think all that should be free and a given. BUT since we don't live in that society, they need to follow the laws of this one. If they were living as if they were married and the women and children were receiving support from Kody and they were getting foodstamps as if they were unmarried and had no spousal support, that is fraud and it should be prosecuted. Throughout Carolyn Jessop's book (sorry to reference it so much but I'm actually rereading it for the 3rd time), her husband said things like "well, as far as I see it, the state sees you a single a mother with eight children, I'm sure they will work out a way to pay it for you." Meanwhile he was raking in the dough all over Utah and Arizona with various businesses. FRAUD. The epilogue actually mentions how Carolyn hasn't gone for child support, because despite him being quite wealthy, he had dissolved and hidden most of his assets so as to not pay her any support.

Legalize polygamy, whatever, don't really care. But I heard someone joke that the reason gay marriage hasn't happened is because it would be too costly to change the various paperworks and systems that currently specify one man and one woman. I mean, tax code would probably explode with more than two people involved...its already ridiculous with one man and one woman, and filing taxes as a domestic partnership is currently the worst thing in the universe, I can't imagine the system is equipped for three or more. I'm all for changing the system, but I think it really is serious roadblock to actual practical legalization.

ETA: not really directed at you, emmiedahl!

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emmiedahl

I know what you are saying, and I definitely agree that there is a ton of welfare fraud. I just filled out the semi-annual review paperwork for food stamps and they want to know how many people are contributing income to my household. Not just mine and my husband's income. If we had a roomate who was sharing bills, I would be legally required to disclose that. If my mother was paying my electric bill, I would be legally required to disclose that as income. So it is definitely welfare fraud, whether they are married or not.

What I meant by the comment on aid is that I don't really care about the situation of the parents when it comes to assistance for families with children. I know I am like a broken record (what about the baybeez?!?!?!).

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deborahlynn1979

I desssssssssssspise these people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the prosecutor not announce that they were NOT going to be pursuing charges against Kody the day BEFORE they fled to Las Vegas?

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Austin

I don't think anyone has any business bringing children into the world when they do not have the means to support them. Setting out to procreate when they know that they can't afford that baby is wrong. Kids deserve better.

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Buzzard
I desssssssssssspise these people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the prosecutor not announce that they were NOT going to be pursuing charges against Kody the day BEFORE they fled to Las Vegas?

I actually thought it was 3 days. But yes, maybe thats why they left in such a hurry... gotta get a good camera shot!

I don't think anyone has any business bringing children into the world when they do not have the means to support them. Setting out to procreate when they know that they can't afford that baby is wrong. Kids deserve better.

AMEN!

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