Sigh. Just...sigh... Miss USA Pageant

[Effie]

:doh: Page Pennock... clueless.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Once upon a time, I thought, "What's the big deal about whether evolution is taught at school? We only learned about Darwin for a couple of days".

Then, I got involved in this train wreck of a thread (under a different screen name):

http://imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &&start=80

It dawned on me that it wasn't just Darwin that was missing in some places - it was basic knowledge of genetics and how cells works, not to mention having some idea of how science works so that you don't think that "I knew a family that moved to Canada and their next kid had blue eyes" constitutes data. What's also scary is that in the absence of real knowledge, some of these women simply make shit up and then convince themselves that this is the real Divine Plan.

[Effie]

Lauren Carter :clap:

Alyssa Campanella :clap:

[docmom]

Not believing in evolution is awesome. You don't have to worry about antibiotic resistant bacteria. You don't have to worry about HIV (because it could never have evolved from a monkey virus to a human one). You don't have to worry about a flu pandemic. Who would want to believe in evolution?

[treemom]

I personally only believe in some types of evolution but even so, I agree with Kitten. I have the belief the evolution should be taught, along with creation stories from MULTIPLE OTHER religions, not just Christianity. Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught and people who hold that view are just plain effing stupid.

Why would you teach evolution, a scientific theory, along with creation myths from all religions (which is comparative religions class, a humanities subject, not science)

[emmiedahl]

Thank you, Treemom. I get tired of saying it.

[FemaleScientist]

Yeah, I liked Vermont and California's responses the best. I can see why one of those two won.

And thank you for mentioning that, treemom. Creationism/ID doesn't belong in a science classroom.

[Terrie]

As a Pastafarian, I just wish they'd teach the controversy and mention how global warming is caused by lack of pirates.

In seriousness, though, I went to a conservative Christian private school, and we did evolution in Biology class. The reason why was highlighted when we were asked what it was at the beginning of the unit and one kid said "Evolution is when a cow walks into the ocean and turns into a whale." They didn't want us to "believe" in it so much as they wanted us not to sound stupid.

[galaxygirl]

I spent my entire school life in evil public schools in my evil liberal thinking West-European birth country. We were taught evolution and creationism was never mentioned in science class. If you wanted to take religious classes you could but it was not mandatory(I never did, had a hard enough time with the three mandatory foreign languages for the first few years of high school) Religion was hardly mentioned, except for in history class, where it occasionally came up. In the town I grew up in there were a Christian school and a Catholic school and if you were Christian or Catholic, that's where you went to school.

[Kitten]

Just to clear up any misconceptions - I, Kitten, stated that evolution should be taught in science as the best theory we have, based on what we have observed and tested, and creationism (along with all the other creation myths) should be taught in a comparative religion class.

And just wanted to add that in my 9th grade honors World Civ class, the teacher was totally awesome and taught us about the rise of civilizations and cultures by having us study all the major non-Christian religions of the world -- where they came from, how the belief structure of each arose from and was influenced by geography, resources, population, etc., and how the development of governmental structures, societal conventions, and religion were intertwined. It was my first fascinating glimpse into anthropology, and a wonderful way of learning that not everyone thinks and lives like you do, but that doesn't make them "wrong."

I still highly recommend "Religions of the World" by Huston Smith for a basic primer on all the major religions, and "Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches" by Marvin Harris to make you think differently about customs and traditions.

[Boogalou]

I personally only believe in some types of evolution but even so, I agree with Kitten. I have the belief the evolution should be taught, along with creation stories from MULTIPLE OTHER religions, not just Christianity. Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught and people who hold that view are just plain effing stupid.

What "types" of evolution do you accept as science?

I'm tired, so please [insert rant here on why you don't believe in evolution, you believe in Zeus/Jupiter/Allah/God/Krishna, you accept science] Thx.

[treemom]

Thank you, Treemom. I get tired of saying it.

Well my kid goes to school in a district that gives both equal weight. You go shelby county! he would get a better education regarding evolution and biology if he went to Catholic School.

[Triplet3]

As someone from the UK who has been all the way through the state school system (over here 'public schools' are posh private schools), I am absolutely gobsmacked that any US public schools would teach evolution as anything other than scientific fact or teach creationism in science lessons. Do that many Americans really not realise that creationism is NOT science and therefore does NOT belong in the science classroom?! And why would any government-funded schools favour the creation story of one religion over those of any others, even if discussion of creationism is kept within Religious Studies classes?

[samithemage]

I graduated from a public high school, in the Bible Belt, 11 years ago. The only place I remember really discussing evolution, was in one of my history classes, where we learned about the whole Scopes monkey trial debacle. That teacher was one of the fairest and bravest teachers at my school. He was almost fired because, when a kid in one of his classes asked him what religion he was, he pretended to be a druid, to freak the kid out because he didn't feel the question was anywhere near appropriate. He ended up having to defend himself in front of the school board because he was a "heathen." He actually wanted us to learn though, and since evolution wasn't being taught in our science classes, he tried to sneak it in where he could.

[emmiedahl]

Do that many Americans really not realise that creationism is NOT science and therefore does NOT belong in the science classroom?!

No. Most Americans do not realize that. Or at least, the ones that do not are very vocal about it.

Teaching evolution along with creationism is still considered controversial to many Christians. In the eyes of many, it is akin to teaching Satanism.

Treemom, when my stepchildren and oldest son went to Catholic school, evolution was taught in science class and creation was taught in religion class. The RC church does not view evolution as unBiblical.

[treemom]

I know emmiedahl. That is what is so sad about the public school.

[Mommy22alyns]

We should totally be knowledged about lots of things. :shock:

I loved "Miss Vermont" in the parody video! I couldn't watch all 14+ minutes of the real one. The stupidity burns.

[Effie]

Lol Amy Duggar should totally befriend those people.

Selma Engblad:

Hey Amy! Do you think evolution should be taught in school?

· 18 hours ago ·

Amy Rachelle Duggar NO!!!!!

3 hours ago ·

[JesusFightClub]

Tho this is a serious issue, I just wanted to mention this thread is cracking me up at points. The global warming being caused by lack of pirates, the guy pretending to be a druid, and a cow walking into the ocean and becoming a whale. In fairness that would be fucking awesome.

Back on topic, I did go to UK state high school, but I never studied evolution, as I dropped my science options asap. If I had continued with the study, I would have learnt about it. Do US students not have the choice of options? I am not really familiar with your system.

[ChickeyMonkey]

Tho this is a serious issue, I just wanted to mention this thread is cracking me up at points. The global warming being caused by lack of pirates, the guy pretending to be a druid, and a cow walking into the ocean and becoming a whale. In fairness that would be fucking awesome.

Back on topic, I did go to UK state high school, but I never studied evolution, as I dropped my science options asap. If I had continued with the study, I would have learnt about it. Do US students not have the choice of options? I am not really familiar with your system.

In US schools, we have to take English, Math, Science, History, PE, and then we have electives. You have to have so many years of the core classes before you have the option of not taking them anymore. It's been about 13 years since I graduated, so my memory is fuzzy. Plus, I was one of those overachievers who still had 7 class periods as a senior, with the majority being AP classes. I think it also varies by state, but I'm not sure.

Someone who works in education at the high school level should answer this, but I'm giving my 2 cents from what I remember.

[Triplet3]

Lol Amy Duggar should totally befriend those people.

Just gone off Amy even more...

[let-them-eat-cake]

Evolution is science, religion is not. Religion doesn't belong in science curriculum just like calculus doesn't belong in a creative writing class.

Sorry, most of my schooling was done in a one-classroom, one-teacher-for-all-subjects model so they all meshed together. I forgot most schools aren't like that.

Nonetheless, then they shouldn't be taught in the same class. I think they should be correlated in the same time frame. If world religions was taught with an emphasis on the different types of "creation stories" during the time evolution was being taught in science class, then no one could sufficiently claim that the school was being "unfair".

[annalena]

And gone is Amy's comment.

[alphaeta08]

In my Indiana high school (age 14-18), we had to take four years of math, three of science, four of English, two of foreign language, three of history, and one each of P.E., some art, government, and econ. So there was some choice, but... not really. Once you scheduled all the requirements, there wasn't much time for anything else, not that my school had many electives anyway. Plus, if you were college-bound, the unwritten rule was that you took more than was necessary, i.e. four years of science and foreign language. Sigh... I've always wanted to do A-levels! I mean, I can see the advantages and disadvantages of both systems, but I wouldn't have minded giving up science or math at some point!

I've told the story before of my bio teacher who thought it would be an amaaaazing idea to have a creationism-evolution debate. All but five people went to the creationism side, not, I suspect, because they really believed it, but because they felt it was the "right" answer. My teacher brought the Bible to class that day. Really? It was then that I realized he was actually an idiot (for other reasons, too, but this certainly didn't help).

[nutella addict]

And once again, I am so grateful I grew up where I did. In my public school, evolution was taught in biology. You had to take three years of science and biology was in 10th grade so pretty much everyone took it (people tended only to skip the fourth year of things in twelfth grade, so poor physics missed out - not by me though, I LOVED physics like I loved calculus!) The only time the evolution/creationism debate came up was in English class as one of our argumentative essay assignments, after reading Inherit the Wind. I don't know of anyone who came down as entirely creationist, my most Christian friend and I both argued that it was perfectly plausible that God worked through evolution. I don't think I know of any Bible literalists around here, I'd have to drive a ways north or south. We did not have a religion class, but there was usually a world religions unit type thing during more advanced history classes like AP World History. [i was also one of those take 4 credits of everything overachievers who took as many AP classes as she could fit in her schedule.]

Count me in as another person who couldn't sit through the full video because it was so cringe-worthy.