Jana Duggar 16: Living in a Tiny House in Daddy's Backyard

[Cam]

4 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

oh my god. If this is true no wonder they had some wilderness years. I can't imagine how that must feel. How disillusioned Jill particularly must have felt. On the other hand, glad it seems to have led them to a better place.

Plus if your siblings don’t see a problem with what your dad did, if they simply accept what he did like its normal, the frustration and outrage grows. Jill had to feel really duped by JB who she’d trusted her whole life only to see his greedy side at her expense. If she sees it, but her siblings don’t……

Edited May 25, 2023 by Cam

[FiveAcres]

Now my question is, if JB feels entitled to forge one daughter's signature, how many similar things has he done to his other offspring? He truly considers them his chattels, aka as enslaved people.

[AprilQuilt]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:10 AM, Cam said:

Plus if your siblings don’t see a problem with what your dad did, if they simply accept what he did like its normal, the frustration and outrage grows. Jill had to feel really duped by JB who she’d trusted her whole life only to see his greedy side at her expense. If she sees it, but her siblings don’t……

Exactly, and she sought her parent's approval so badly - SUCH a people-pleaser, SO by-the-book - so for her all this must have genuinely felt like a nightmare. To be going through that realisation and have all the people around you - your closest friends and the ones who'd also seen your crazy childhood from the inside - potentially extending the gaslighting, well, no wonder she was in therapy. I'm glad that was something she/Derick felt it was appropriate for her to pursue.

It does maybe explain how weird and tense the Dillards' social media was for a few years. They came over very odd. I don't think they can have been in a good place at all.

[Mrs Ms]

Jill and Derrick are actually very lucky to still be together I think. Between living in various countries, health problems, becoming parents with quite traumatic births, training and becoming a lawyer AND on top of that all the utter dreck they had to muddle through because of her brother and father. Many couples would have found one or more issues too much or have grown at different paces or to different places. It must have taken a LOT of effort to grow together! Even with the mentality towards marriage that she was indoctrinated with, staying together and seemingly flourishing was not a guarantee.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Mrs Ms
“They” isn’t helpful when it’s not clear that I mean the Dillards

[Smee]

Absolutely. Every now and then I stop and think and am surprised by how well Jill and Derrick have grown together. Jill had plenty of reasons to question her upbringing and start a deconstruction journey, but there was no guarantee that Derrick would go along with her, or not steer her towards other high control environments (see: Jeremy). Often he’s credited with helping “pull her” out of the muck, because she was such a people pleaser and her response to trauma seemed to be “fawn”, but I think women generally have more strength and agency than they’re given credit for. And so many women who start questioning the patriarchy tug on a thread that unravels their whole world, including their marriage. When Jill realised she could step out on her own with secular support and no longer be trapped in the standards she had been raised in, she could just as easily have taken the position that marriage was a tool of oppression (which it is). But they seem to genuinely love each other and want what is best for each other and their kids. Or Derrick’s anger at JB could have torn them apart, but instead it was a propellant for them both.

[Lista]

16 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

Jill and Derrick are actually very lucky to still be together I think. Between living in various countries, health problems, becoming parents with quite traumatic births, training and becoming a lawyer AND on top of that all the utter dreck they had to muddle through because of her brother and father. Many couples would have found one or more issues too much or have grown at different paces or to different places. It must have taken a LOT of effort to grow together! Even with the mentality towards marriage that she was indoctrinated with, staying together and seemingly flourishing was not a guarantee.

I agree.  My husband studied with JW’s for a full year just to see the shit I went through. I didn’t ask him to do it.  He read the whole Bible he was given.  He started to ask them questions they couldn’t answer.  Long story, short; he sent them packing and asked them not to come back.  I was/am grateful he did that. Great learning experience.  It brought us even closer.   
 

I think Jill & Derick still have a lot of puzzles to turn over.   But they will figure it out together. 
 

Jinger & her husband? No way.  That marriage will fail. But time will tell.  Jeremy wants the perfect flawless wife.  There’s something about him that screams red flags.  I can’t explain it.  It’s just Insta pics he’s posted of her.  I don’t trust him. I still say he will cheat on her & she’d turn a blind eye.  But who knows   

[Grace]

I feel like the stars aligned and, whatever it was that sent them to therapy got them with a really good therapist who was able to help them make some important connections in their heads. Maybe they got a secular one because, as a UofA student, Derek would have gotten a certain number of hours for free.

[Cam]

I, too, agree that the Dillards, having been through so much, are lucky to still be together. I would have to concede that one reason is because since their religion heavily disapproves of divorce, they’ve been taught that you have to make it work. Another reason is they don’t want to give JB cause to say, “told you that you shouldn’t go against me” so that is more incentive to stick it out. A third reason goes back to what I said about all your siblings gaslighting you. Derick was the only one who actually saw what Jill saw. She at least has him to turn to over and over and not be made to feel like she’s the crazy one.

[gustava]

I wonder how involved Derick's mother has been.  His family is not cray cray.

[HeartsAFundie]

 Between Derick's prosecutor job, the Josh debacle, Freddy's birth and now actively playing a role in the upcoming documentary, that seals it as to why Jill and Derick seemingly chose to keep Izzy and Sam home for school; a better opportunity to keep them safe and less opportunity for any backlash.   I 100 percent applaud them for choosing to tell their story in the documentary and naturally I will be watching.   I wish them well.    

[patsymae]

5 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

 Between Derick's prosecutor job, the Josh debacle, Freddy's birth and now actively playing a role in the upcoming documentary, that seals it as to why Jill and Derick seemingly chose to keep Izzy and Sam home for school; a better opportunity to keep them safe and less opportunity for any backlash.   I 100 percent applaud them for choosing to tell their story in the documentary and naturally I will be watching.   I wish them well.    

I"m not a Derrick fan by any means, but have to say he certainly seems to have been and continue to be a very good husband for Jill. He's supportive emotionally and also actually works to support his family and isn't living on her writing stupid books or being an "influencer." Maybe he's even actually grown some, although I'll take that with a grain of salt. Given where she came from and how they met, she really won the lottery here. 

On 5/24/2023 at 8:10 PM, Cam said:

Plus if your siblings don’t see a problem with what your dad did, if they simply accept what he did like its normal, the frustration and outrage grows. Jill had to feel really duped by JB who she’d trusted her whole life only to see his greedy side at her expense. If she sees it, but her siblings don’t……

I know the term "narcissist" is tossed around a lot now, but IMO both JB and Meech fit the bill (ie., they've always reminded me of my parents and I didn't cotton on until well into my 50s). One major thing they do is triangulate and control interaction among siblings, and as I heard in one support group "Your siblings are --part of/reacting to/immersed in/I forget the exact wording--something they don't understand. Some of them will never see it and therapy seems to have helped Jill understand that and set healthy boundaries even if that makes her feel sad.

Appropos of nothing, Josie the golden child may be IMO another one who actually leaves the fold. She doesn't have to compete for attention or approval. I remember one time they asked her to describe the Duggar fashion, and she said "ugly." I have hopes for that kid.

[Bridgecape]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:59 AM, Lista said:

I agree.  My husband studied with JW’s for a full year just to see the shit I went through. I didn’t ask him to do it.  He read the whole Bible he was given.  He started to ask them questions they couldn’t answer.  Long story, short; he sent them packing and asked them not to come back.  I was/am grateful he did that. Great learning experience.  It brought us even closer.   
 

I think Jill & Derick still have a lot of puzzles to turn over.   But they will figure it out together. 
 

Jinger & her husband? No way.  That marriage will fail. But time will tell.  Jeremy wants the perfect flawless wife.  There’s something about him that screams red flags.  I can’t explain it.  It’s just Insta pics he’s posted of her.  I don’t trust him. I still say he will cheat on her & she’d turn a blind eye.  But 

He's probably the sort that if she were  to leave him, he would never accept it. He was quite pushy in the courtship. I wonder if she is paying for his classes at the seminary? If she is, I hope he is treating her with respect and don't cheat or doing something else stupid. 

 

[patsymae]

4 minutes ago, Bridgecape said:

He's probably the sort that if she were  to leave him, he would never accept it. He was quite pushy in the courtship. I wonder if she is paying for his classes at the seminary? If she is, I hope he is treating her with respect and don't cheat or doing something else stupid. 

 

He probably is that sort, but I don't see her ever leaving him, or wanting to. Her aspirations were always to wear cute clothes and go to chi-chi coffee shops and not much else (despite her supposed interest in photography, and was it her that was going to learn to sell cars?) and she has that. And cute kids that she gets to dress up. Plus she seems to be innately a follower and now she has a handsome, worldly, educated, "cosmopolitan" idol to follow and two cute kids to dress up. As long as he keeps patting her on the head and telling her what a smart person she is (she actually believes she is deconstructing Christian dogma) and keeping her in cool clothes and high-end appliances, I don't see her becoming unhappy. IMHO she is like Jana, perfectly happy with whatever as long as the cosplay is working.

[Cults-r-us]

55 minutes ago, Bridgecape said:

He's probably the sort that if she were  to leave him, he would never accept it. He was quite pushy in the courtship. I wonder if she is paying for his classes at the seminary? If she is, I hope he is treating her with respect and don't cheat or doing something else stupid. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Jer/McArthur support ending no fault divorce like Steven Crowder, so it's up to the man whether the woman can leave.

[Cam]

13 hours ago, patsymae said:

I"m not a Derrick fan by any means, but have to say he certainly seems to have been and continue to be a very good husband for Jill. He's supportive emotionally and also actually works to support his family and isn't living on her writing stupid books or being an "influencer." Maybe he's even actually grown some, although I'll take that with a grain of salt. Given where she came from and how they met, she really won the lottery here. 

I know the term "narcissist" is tossed around a lot now, but IMO both JB and Meech fit the bill (ie., they've always reminded me of my parents and I didn't cotton on until well into my 50s). One major thing they do is triangulate and control interaction among siblings, and as I heard in one support group "Your siblings are --part of/reacting to/immersed in/I forget the exact wording--something they don't understand. Some of them will never see it and therapy seems to have helped Jill understand that and set healthy boundaries even if that makes her feel sad.

Appropos of nothing, Josie the golden child may be IMO another one who actually leaves the fold. She doesn't have to compete for attention or approval. I remember one time they asked her to describe the Duggar fashion, and she said "ugly." I have hopes for that kid.

I definitely believe JB and Michelle are classic narcissists.

My mother in law wasn’t necessarily a narcissist, but she did control the interaction among her four children even as they were far into adulthood. My husband (and his siblings) never caught on, but I could see it plain as day. The siblings all went through their mother to communicate with each other. She had to know everything, and continuously played them off of each other. She was a widow so they always babied her. She and I were cordial with each other, but I know the reason we weren’t ever close was because she knew I saw her manipulations and could not be controlled by her. 

Haha, Josie’s comment about the Duggar ugly style is funny. 

[Smee]

14 hours ago, patsymae said:

 

Appropos of nothing, Josie the golden child may be IMO another one who actually leaves the fold. She doesn't have to compete for attention or approval. I remember one time they asked her to describe the Duggar fashion, and she said "ugly." I have hopes for that kid.

Surely in time a few more will leave. They can’t ALL be brainwashed THAT well. For all we know Josiah or Justin are also figuring out what they actually believe and how far away from the cult they want to get how fast. Jill and Jinger have gone public about walking away from IBLP but there might be others on similar paths, perhaps not quite as far down or just not as public about it.

14 hours ago, Bridgecape said:

He's probably the sort that if she were  to leave him, he would never accept it. He was quite pushy in the courtship. I wonder if she is paying for his classes at the seminary? If she is, I hope he is treating her with respect and don't cheat or doing something else stupid. 

 

I’ve said before that Jeremy gives me bad vibes. I don’t think he’ll necessarily cheat, but I wouldn’t be surprised if behind closed doors she can’t do anything right, and she is far less happy than she appears. Getting her away from her family and not letting them visit in the first year or whatever it was sounded like a good thing for a child of a cult, but separation from support networks and undermining other close relationships are hallmarks if coercive control.

[JermajestyDuggar]

By the time Josie is 18, JB will be 62 and Michelle 61. They will have many many grandchildren by then. The documentary will have been released. People will know a lot of the cult secrets. Josh will still be in prison. And a lot of the adult children will have made their own choices by then. Plus Josie has gotten away with more since she’s the miracle baby. I wouldn’t be surprised if she did choose to go against a lot of the rules. 

[Cam]

4 hours ago, Smee said:

Surely in time a few more will leave. They can’t ALL be brainwashed THAT well. For all we know Josiah or Justin are also figuring out what they actually believe and how far away from the cult they want to get how fast. Jill and Jinger have gone public about walking away from IBLP but there might be others on similar paths, perhaps not quite as far down or just not as public about it.

The cult elevates and benefits men which leads me to think no Duggar brothers will leave. They’d lose too much. Once they get a young submissive wife with long hair who’s dranking the koolaid, they’re all in.

What Jill and Jinger went through with Josh and then the cover up and minimalizing of it by their parents while being forced to put on shiny happy faces seemed to be some of the catalyst for their distancing themselves somewhat. I think they had enough of the parentalizing and they witnessed years of their mother being joyfully available to the dad and therefore perpetually pregnant and they decided it wasn’t for them.  The younger daughters have had a different experience growing up. I don’t see Josie breaking away. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Cam

[Idlewild]

The younger ones didn’t know the poverty and food insecurity that Jill experienced and hopefully not the abuse either. They grew up as lauded and affluent, with all the benefits and freebies of being famous fundies. They also had tutors for at least part of the time, so may not feel their upbringing disadvantaged them.

Jed has always struck me as JB 2.0 and I think he still fancies a go at politics.

Justin’s new mummy seems to be a Duggar fan girl, judging by her behaviour over Josh’s trial, so I think he and Claire will have similar beliefs, but keep a low key.

I’ll be interested to see whether Jill actually does hold her parents accountable- so far it’s all been either TLC or IBLP. Jinger was careful not to blame her parents, but the theology. 

[Giraffe]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

By the time Josie is 18, JB will be 62 and Michelle 61. They will have many many grandchildren by then. The documentary will have been released. People will know a lot of the cult secrets. Josh will still be in prison. And a lot of the adult children will have made their own choices by then. Plus Josie has gotten away with more since she’s the miracle baby. I wouldn’t be surprised if she did choose to go against a lot of the rules. 

Exactly. My guess is miracle Josie can get away with anything and JB & M will support her in ways they wouldn’t if she were any other (non-Josh) child. If Josie were to come home and say she was dating a woman I doubt (by the time JB & M are in their 60’s, Josh has been in prison for numerous years and other children have presumably walked away from IBLP) they would shun her or condemn her.

[SassyPants]

The sister who surprised me the most is Jessa. She was always the mouthy, opinionated one. She is the one who raised the most hell, per her parents. Um, worse than Josh, not likely. Anyhow, back in the day if I was going to predict which of the older sisters would be living in LA, wearing skinny jeans and controlling her fertility, I would have picked Jessa, not Jinger. Jessa was shown to be both spunky and adventurous (sky jumping, anyone). Jinger was shown to like fake tans and coffee, and was rather shy as she got older. Of course, Jill has made the most strides. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I don’t think you can fully predict who will break out. But now that some of the Duggars have, others will follow. So if Josie wants to leave, she will have a much easier path out thanks to Jill.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

We know how bad Cathy (DL's Mom) is. 
And yet she still seems better than JB and Michelle.

Think about that...

 

[noseybutt]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:13 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t think you can fully predict who will break out. But now that some of the Duggars have, others will follow. So if Josie wants to leave, she will have a much easier path out thanks to Jill.

This. I have a relative from a very conservative religious home who was hell on wheels as a teen and is now hyper religious in a different sect and fueled by conspiracy theories. 

[LillyP]

I think we might not see as many siblings leave you might think, mostly out of fear of being cut off from their brothers and sisters. I think there are probably several who look at Jill's life and are envious of the freedom and support she has, but have also seen how she's basically become ostracized from her family. We all know she's not welcome at the big house and it seems she has very limited contact with siblings (even though they claim to all still be close) and I'd bet there's been enough fear instilled in the remaining siblings that they don't want to risk losing those relationships. I feel bad for the younger siblings because if anything, the older siblings branching out is only going to make JB double-down on their perspective partners. He's going to only want them to marry a spouse who will toe-the-line, not pull them away.