Idaho Mom Lori Daybell 2

[Chickenbutt]

I'm listening to todays testimony. Zulema is driving me bat shit crazy. The pauses, the ummms. I have finally committed to memory when everyone died and when the kids were last seen. It does make it easier to follow. I would love to see the jurors notes......

😮✍️

[Ozlsn]

I can't get over how fast it all happened. Chad and Lori met in October 2018, and were married to each other just over a year later in November 2019. And for that to happen was both spouses and two children had to die. It is really terrifying how quickly the insanity took over, especially as they could have just divorced or even just deserted and shacked up together.

[Howl]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

they could have just divorced or even just deserted and shacked up together.

My take?  People were being killed for financial gain.  First, I'm convinced Alex Cox murdered Joe Ryan, Tylee's bio dad. Alex hated Joe R. 

Joe R. was found dead in his apartment, but after some time had passed.  The condition of his body was such that the coroner speculated the cause was a natural death related to heart disease. 

But no matter, his death triggered Social Security benefits to Tylee and I think there was also a payout of other funds (life insurance?)  to Tylee upon Joe's death,  money that was managed by *checks notes* Lori. 

Then, Charles.  Lori thought she was the beneficiary of Charles' $1 million life insurance policy.  Ooops, Charles had changed the beneficiary to Kay. However, more Social Security funds for JJ, as the child of a deceased father. 

Lori didn't work, Chad was hanging on financially by a thread.  Tammy was the breadwinner with her library job.  What to do?  Murder Tammy and Bingo!, her life insurance policy pays out to the tune of (IIRC) around $700,000 and Chad and Lori head to Hawaii, rent a nice condo, get married and hang out on the beach.  Life is good! 

One of Lori's pending charges has to do with fraudulently claiming Social Security benefits after the kids were dead. 

On to Brandon Boudreaux, a successful business man and newly ex-husband of Lori's niece Melani.    Alex tried to assassinate him but missed by inches.  As the father of four or five kids, I suspect there was a major life insurance policy involved with Melani as beneficiary or maybe Alex tried to murder Brandon so Melani could keep the kids or both.  

 

[Bobology]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

It is really terrifying how quickly the insanity took over, especially as they could have just divorced or even just deserted and shacked up together.

They could have, like everyone else does. It has to come down to the money; Lori and Chad needed the money from the deaths to fund their lifestyle, albeit temporarily.

The most startling testimony I've read thus far is 1) Alex's message to Lori about his new username for something (can't remember) and the password he set up was "2manykids" and I believe that was a month or two before the kids disappeared. Lori "laughed" at the password. And 2) Zulema testifying that days (2 days?) prior to Alex's death Zulema and Alex were talking and he kind of pauses and says something about he just realized that he might be Lori and Chad's fall guy. Maybe he was just beginning to think for himself rather than do everything Lori or Chad suggested he do.

I hope I got that right. I read Nate's updates but I can still get foggy on some details.

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Bobology said:

And 2) Zulema testifying that days (2 days?) prior to Alex's death Zulema and Alex were talking and he kind of pauses and says something about he just realized that he might be Lori and Chad's fall guy. Maybe he was just beginning to think for himself rather than do everything Lori or Chad suggested he do.

He had to realize that murdering a bunch of people won't end well. 

At some point in there Zulema thought he was going to murder her.  I'm guessing she was aware that Alex had killed Charles Vallow, but I'll speculate that she knew or suspected that he had committed other murders. 

[Florita]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

My take?  People were being killed for financial gain. 

 

I agree. When Lori met Chad it was basically Zuul meets Gozer. They even had the Keymaster (Alex)! Lori's the first pretty woman to look twice at Chad and he showers her with the adoration she craves. She, in turn, believes his L. Ron Hubbard wannabe bullshit. They construct a fantasy world where they have supernatural powers & knowledge because they're so damn special. The gullible around them eat it up. Trouble is Zuul & Gozer are broke and constrained by family obligations (damn that real world). Solution - have the Keymaster get rid of the family and live on that sweet insurance $$. 

What is scary is how close they were to getting away with it.

[hoipolloi]

Chad & Lori are monsters and I agree that it was all about the money. Whatever they thought about zombies and the 144K, they absolutely believed in SS payments & insurance money.

I wonder if Lori will take the stand. She is a narcissistic sociopath so I could see her insisting on "explaining" everything. OTOH, it would probably remove any shred of plausible deniability. I canʻt see her standing up to even a basic cross-examination.

[Chickenbutt]

I just finished up listening to yesterdays testimony. I agree about Lori wanting to testify. If she can "charm" all the people in her life, surely she can "charm" the jurors. Oh please let her take the stand! 

[Bobology]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:21 AM, Howl said:

At some point in there Zulema thought he was going to murder her.  I'm guessing she was aware that Alex had killed Charles Vallow, but I'll speculate that she knew or suspected that he had committed other murders. 

After listening to Zulema's "clarification" interview in Arizona, I have to agree with you that she has more information than she is revealing to authorities. Has anyone else endured that 2-hr interview posted on the eastidahonews trial page? Zulema is often slippery when she answers questions and tells stories. So she's either quite intelligent and giving just enough, but not all, or she isn't very bright at all and has language problems. Her vocabulary and sentence structure aren't out of the ordinary (lots of pauses and ummms, like @Chickenbuttsaid) but very intact. It's her content and half-answers that are weird. She is appearing to be totally open and cooperative, but it looks like she is being secretive about some stuff.

For those who haven't listened and are daunted by the 2 hours, there are some long chit-chat parts when one of the interviewers is out of the room. Just forward ahead until you see someone enter the room and close the door.

[TN-peach]

So far the prosecution in this case has done better with keeping the timeline straight than the prosecution in the Murdaugh case did.  (I reserve the right to change my mind though).

[TN-peach]

I haven't listened to all of yesterday's audio yet only the phone call between Lori and her son.  Wowsers was that heartbreaking. You could hear Colby sniffling in the background while the court played the recording.  Reporters said that he barely looked at her and the one time he did and then looked away and shook his head.  I cannot imagine his heartbreak.  Just plain awful.

 

Also, I am so glad people forget the jail phone calls are recorded even though they remind themselves they are being recorded (see Alex Murdaugh and Lori Vallow).

[Howl]

Huge bombshell in testimony yesterday, I think from Zulema.  At some point during all the crazy, Alex started buying and stockpiling weapons, I think 46 weapons -- not sure about the distribution of hand guns, rifles, whatever.  Was he trying to start any army?   There is certainly a hidden story there.  

[TN-peach]

Also as part of the "casting" ceremony they would bind and "burn" so that an evil spirit could not come back in. 

 

Tylee was burned.  JJ was bound.  Eerie. 

[hoipolloi]

Nate Eaton's Twitter follow is excellent. 

Cannot believe the stuff coming out but graphics like this are so helpful (from Nate's tweets today, 4/19):

[TN-peach]

He also has a great nightly wrap up video on Youtube. 

 

I agree that chart is extremely useful. 

[viii]

https://people.com/crime/prosecutors-reveal-how-lori-vallow-daybell-son-killed/

Please note: this is a disturbing read. 

Those poor, poor children. 

[Howl]

JJ was suffocated but the actual cause of Tylee's death couldn't be determined for obvious reasons.

I think that today's testimony and ghastly images will send Lori to prison for the rest of her life, although it has to be proven exactly how she was involved with/was an instigator of their murders.  How will that be proven? Chad won't testify against her and Alex is dead. Texts, emails? 

She can claim that she wasn't involved with their murders, but she can't explain away why she didn't report them missing or endangered and zipped off to Hawaii without looking for them. 

 

[Howl]

Listening to Summer Shifflet's distraught phone call with Lori made 11 days after Tylee and JJ's remains are found on Chad's property.  Summer is crying so hard she can hardly talk throughout most of the call.  It's clear from this call that Summer desperately wants Lori to explain how she is innocent, but at the same time knows that Lori isn't.  Summer is buying NONE of Lori's bullshit, at several points yelling and screaming at Lori; Lori never gets emotional. 

"There is nothing OK with killing children..." 

‘They were just little kids!’ Listen to the explosive jail phone call between Lori Daybell and her sister

I haven't been able find a transcript of this phone call. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Howl

[Howl]

The video embedded in this tweet has the text of their conversation. . 

 

[Bobology]

After reading about the differences between Tylee's and JJ's remains and "burials" I'm wondering if the guys (assuming Alex and Chad together, but I don't know) found their initial plan to hide/get rid of Tylee's remains was so challenging that they did something different with JJ when the time came. 
 

[FiveAcres]

I was watching one of the Time Team (British archeology series) episodes and they actually tried to reconstruct a Roman funeral pyre. (They used a slaughtered animal instead of human remains.) It took a lot longer than they expected and was an awful lot of work. 

[Bethella]

2 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I was watching one of the Time Team (British archeology series) episodes and they actually tried to reconstruct a Roman funeral pyre. (They used a slaughtered animal instead of human remains.) It took a lot longer than they expected and was an awful lot of work. 

I just have to pop in and say that Time Team is one of my favorite shows. I’m anxiously waiting for the new Anglo-Saxon cemetery episode. 

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, Bobology said:

After reading about the differences between Tylee's and JJ's remains and "burials" I'm wondering if the guys (assuming Alex and Chad together, but I don't know) found their initial plan to hide/get rid of Tylee's remains was so challenging that they did something different with JJ when the time came. 
 

You may be right. The longer it took for them to dispose of Tylee's body, the higher the risk.

This article describes the aerial photos taken at the time and what may or may not have been visible. Although Chadʻs property was not right in town, it would not have been impossible for others -- even random vehicles driving by -- to see what was going on there, especially if it took them hours, out in the open, to carry out their crime.

Edited April 27, 2023 by hoipolloi
Fixed typo

[hoipolloi]

Nate Eaton shared a helpful drawing of the courtroom layout:

[TuringMachine]

On 4/26/2023 at 12:03 PM, Howl said:

think that today's testimony and ghastly images will send Lori to prison for the rest of her life, although it has to be proven exactly how she was involved with/was an instigator of their murders.  How will that be proven? Chad won't testify against her and Alex is dead. Texts, emails? 

She can claim that she wasn't involved with their murders, but she can't explain away why she didn't report them missing or endangered and zipped off to Hawaii without looking for them. 

Yeah the whole buying wedding rings while Tammy was still alive and returning JJ's service dog and pulling him out of school the day before he died seem like insurmountable hurdles for her. I dunno if that information has been shared with the jury yet, but I can't imagine they hear that and don't reach the conclusion Lori knew they were going to die.