'If your crap is Christian, I'll eat it' - a rant

[AnnoDomini]

I have seen The Printing in my early teen years, and... I loved it. Not as much as Chariots of Fire, and I always knew it wasn't as good, but I did like it. The Jewish best friend Yuri was one of my favourite characters.

[Mommy22alyns]

Burris, I don't know how is more to blame: the pompous asses who produce and market this stuff, or the dolts who buy it. About 10 years ago I had a Sunday School teacher who was a contemporary of mine, a well-educated congregant in an ELCA church. He learned someone else in the church was opening a restaurant and he spent an entire SS class talking about how we ought to patronize and frequent the other guy's restaurant, because helping other Christians is what we should be about. I had never heard that expressed by another Lutheran before, and I inwardly called bullshit on it. Silly me, what I thought we were about was helping those who need help without questioning their belief systems. I couldn't see myself patronizing a restaurant just because a church member ran it.

I also make it my business not to frequent businesses or establishments that advertise they're run by Christians, or show the sign of the fish or something similar. I prefer to do business at arm's length and to get the best bang for my buck, not to support someone just because we believe in the same God. If they are good at what they do, then they don't need my help. If not, then why do I want shoddy service,and why should I help them stay in business?

Yes, this!

Excellent rant. :clap:

[Someonetocall]

Burris,

I wish to bake you cookies as a bribe to write many more rants.

[JesusFightClub]

Burris, have you read Mao's talks on culture in Yenan? There's an interesting (and not very nice) parallel between the message in those and the idea of Christian film, fiction etc in the ways fundies envisage it.

[oscar]

Christian music... don't get me fucking started. All of the songs are "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, and if they're not, the lyrics are so in your face you want to vomit. I'm not talking about the traditional stuff. That's actually really good. I'm talking about the contemporary stuff that was written by tin-eared hacks who are more focused on winning souls than actually producing ART. Which is what music is supposed to be. The lyrics are usually cheesy, if they didn't make the song sound enough like a typical pop love song. I HATE listening to an awesome song on the radio and then finding out it's Christian. It completely changes the meaning and not in a good way. You wanna know one of the factors that made me ditch Christianity? It was all of the bullshit I was fed at age 12 about being pure and saving myself for marriage and not having boyfriends and shit like that. If having those feelings are bad, why is it okay to have those feelings about Jesus?

Kitty, you're in NC too, right? When I moved here I was amazed by all the shitty praise music on the radio, and how many people actually seem to like it.

I can think of some Christian music - that is, music made by Christians with Christian themes and content - that I consider to be legitimately fantastic. It's incredibly depressing to hear stories from really talented artists about how there is no space for them in the music industry. Christian music labels won't touch their work thanks to topics and lyrical content that are considered inappropriate for Christian music. And being an overtly Christian artist precludes distribution in general-market outlets, because everyone knows how bad Christian music sucks.

I can think of some people who totally sold out and went from making Christian music with challenging content and actual artistic merit to writing "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, because that's what they felt like they had to do to make a living. It's an industry that rewards safeness and sameness and punishes those who try to innovate.

[fundifugee]

Well done Burris. My sentiments exactly.

It seems to escape these peoples' attention that the one act of violence Jesus ever committed was to kick people out of the temple who were trying to make money from religion.

And the art! I still listen to classical and African American gospel music. Make no mistake, blues/soul/R&B came out of the African American church and the slave spirituals, and is a deeply moving expression of culture and history, as is Strauss and Bach, et.al. However, the contemporary christian CRAP is a cheaply done imitation of secular pop. Where does the church get off criticizing popular culture and then selling poorly-done imitations of it?

Likewise, these fundy bloggers, even the virtuous poor/frugal ones, do nothing resembling the radical overturning of the social order that Jesus demonstrated. Rather than hanging out with sick, poor, prostitutes, children, and outcasts, their version of poverty and frugality involves out-walmarting the rest of society in buying and producing and amassing cheap, useless, crap. Who cares if it involves exploiting poor people and enslaving children (even your own).

[Rosa]

And the art! I still listen to classical and African American gospel music. Make no mistake, blues/soul/R&B came out of the African American church and the slave spirituals, and is a deeply moving expression of culture and history, as is Strauss and Bach, et.al. However, the contemporary christian CRAP is a cheaply done imitation of secular pop. Where does the church get off criticizing popular culture and then selling poorly-done imitations of it?

Yes! Why is the reggae music on community radio, and the gospel music on the Black station, while I have to listen hard to the crappop to figure out if it's secular on the "hits" station or Christian on K-LOVE?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Burris: Are you hanging out in my brain? Those are my thoughts exactly - right down to the part about having a library beside the toilet.

Now, since I don't live in Christian fundie-land, it's actually more common in my area to see Jewish and Muslim bookstores. Unfortunately, this is an increasing trend there as well.

I like the idea of reducing media exposure in order to become more aware and critical of its influence in our lives. That's the old left-wing feminist part of me. I don't like the idea of producing a bunch of hot-house flowers that will be so super-sheltered that they will be never be able to cope with the outside elements. Somewhere along the way, the basic definition of what it means to be a good, moral adult is changing. To me, G-d gave us free will and wants us to use it to CHOOSE to be good, even in difficult circumstances, and to improve the world. In the fundie view, it's about maintaining this bubble where people never encounter anything remotely sinful or need to make choices.

[Swamptribe]

Please forgive my typing, keyboard is messed up. Trying to edit things but might miss a few.

I'll tell you, I've sold books for years. What it is is a sheep mentality, follow the herd. A good example of the 'sheep' mentality is the success of the twilight series. I tried to read them, I'm sorry, those books are crap, horribly written, the plot is equally as bad. Yet, a certain market embraced them, so then every one of the 'sheep' had to love it. Or, look at the popularity of Patterson and Sparks. They do not write good literature, but a certain market has embraced their books as the in thing to read. Hell, Patterson doesn't even write his own books anymore. But I digress...

I see the same thing with Christian books and films. The books are actually pretty badly written, there are few 'christian' writers that can also write mainstream. Dekker and Peretti come to mind, sure their are more. Most of the literature, fiction wise, is highly formulaic I've actually had people tell me they like these types of books because they don't have to think about them, everything is just laid out in black and white. When it comes to Christian non-fiction, I always get the impression that people are buying them because they feel reading such books makes them a better Christian. It's popular reading material at their church, or some Christian leader they admire recommended it. Again, they don't read it because they feel it's great literature, they read it because everyone else says they should.

We have a number of clients who also come in and buy books to 'give out' to people as a witness tool.

I believe another huge factor is the 'us vs them' mentality (which feeds into the sheep thing). Many many Christians take great pride in being separate from everyone else who they don't see as a 'true christian'. It's "I don't read that mainstream nonsense, I only read good Christian literature". I also get this with the "I don't read fiction" crowd.

It also never ceases to amaze me that women will come in and buy several Christian books, and then a stack of 'bodice ripper' historical romance novels. And not the Christian romance novels either.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of garbage mainstream literature too. I could name authors, but some of you might jump down my throat. Just because something is popular or fashionable doesn't mean it's good. Yet, people will still flock to read it. Have to tell you, bookstore clerks hate it when a client insists we have to read a particular book because 'it's so good' when we know it's a piece of crap and their only reading it because all of the other ladies in their little circle are reading it.

Anyway, my point is basically, so what. It makes them happy, and we get to snicker behind their back if they get snotty and superior about it.

PS. I have NEVER understood the whole 'sheep, flock, Shepard' thing is Christianity. I mean, do they really imagine that bronze age shepherds kept those flocks because the sheep were their fuzzie wuzzie little pets? No, it's because it was an economic necessity. They needed the meat, and hides. Think lamb chops and wool blankets.

[GenerationCedarchip]

The thing I can't stand about Christian media is that it's so up its own ass with "the Message" that the art itself suffers, often horribly.

In Christian books, the authors rely on purple prose, fake dialogue, and Canon Sues. The characters can never do wrong, no, and when they do it's perfectly acceptable because they are the Christian heroes.

In Christian movies, the writers rely on Canon Sues and fake dialogue.

I haven't seen a Christian TV show unless you count 7th Heaven, but 7th Heaven was bad enough. We don't need a show that does actually mention Jesus and Christianity as much as you'd expect a show about a preacher and his family to.

Christian music... don't get me fucking started. All of the songs are "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, and if they're not, the lyrics are so in your face you want to vomit. I'm not talking about the traditional stuff. That's actually really good. I'm talking about the contemporary stuff that was written by tin-eared hacks who are more focused on winning souls than actually producing ART. Which is what music is supposed to be. The lyrics are usually cheesy, if they didn't make the song sound enough like a typical pop love song. I HATE listening to an awesome song on the radio and then finding out it's Christian. It completely changes the meaning and not in a good way. You wanna know one of the factors that made me ditch Christianity? It was all of the bullshit I was fed at age 12 about being pure and saving myself for marriage and not having boyfriends and shit like that. If having those feelings are bad, why is it okay to have those feelings about Jesus?

It's all supposed to be a "moral substitute," and it's an awful one. Once Christian writers get their heads out of their asses and learn SUBTLETY (and no, extended romance metaphors do NOT count as subtlety!) their media will never be received well by secular audiences who are used to higher standards.

Well, the secular media doesn't have that much higher standards, but still...

That drives me nuts in Christian books, too. However, even though I have yet to get dragged to a decent movie, the book scene does seem to be improving. Authors like Christa Parrish who write books about flawed,real people are probably not fundie-approved but I do like her writing. There are a few others out there like this, too.

Love the term Canon Sue! :)

[Kitty]

Kitty, you're in NC too, right? When I moved here I was amazed by all the shitty praise music on the radio, and how many people actually seem to like it.

I can think of some Christian music - that is, music made by Christians with Christian themes and content - that I consider to be legitimately fantastic. It's incredibly depressing to hear stories from really talented artists about how there is no space for them in the music industry. Christian music labels won't touch their work thanks to topics and lyrical content that are considered inappropriate for Christian music. And being an overtly Christian artist precludes distribution in general-market outlets, because everyone knows how bad Christian music sucks.

I can think of some people who totally sold out and went from making Christian music with challenging content and actual artistic merit to writing "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, because that's what they felt like they had to do to make a living. It's an industry that rewards safeness and sameness and punishes those who try to innovate.

I live in the very northeast of NC, between Virginia and the Outer Banks. Shit-tons of churches, but few fundies, and I only know of one gospel station in the whole area. The rest vary widely. But I go to college in Wilmington, so all the stations I had preset in my car's radio went from rock/variety/pop (what? I need my Lady Gaga fix!) to Christian stations. Driving through New Bern and Jacksonville, most of the stations are gospel or country. I normally listen to my CDs driving back and forth, but the one time I didn't....

There are some really good Christian bands out there. I do like Skillet, though their lyrics are annoyingly vague at times. But the others... it would be same old, same old acoustic "indie" shit if it were mainstream. And yes, I do mean shit.

The only time I prefer Christian songs to secular ones is during Christmas time.

[Kitty]

That drives me nuts in Christian books, too. However, even though I have yet to get dragged to a decent movie, the book scene does seem to be improving. Authors like Christa Parrish who write books about flawed,real people are probably not fundie-approved but I do like her writing. There are a few others out there like this, too.

Love the term Canon Sue! :)

Admittedly, my experience with Christian books is limited to Left Behind and short stories meant for teens/preteens... and the bad, bad fiction snarked on here. But they all have the same thing in common.

Never, ever sacrifice art for the message. You will never win souls that way.

[Effie]

Thanks for the rant. No.really. I have had the same thought. Why does Christian=better? wtf?

I know right! I often find sentences like these in the blogosphere:

"Blah blah is a good God-fearing Christian..."

"Blaha is a good Christian woman blessed with 7 blessings..."

I have never read anything like this, anywhere in the blogosphere:

"Blabla is a good atheist..."

Edit. A bit off-topic, I know.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Left Behind - oh yikes! I only tried to read one, but that is some bad writing. FWIW, I think they are way more popular in fundie lite and mainstream evangelical circles than with actual fundies. I've heard a lot of fundies trash them.

Kinda unrelated: I always get the title of the books mixed up with Left Below, the hilarious Simpsons parody. :lol:

[jockosmom]

I tried to read Left Behind. I was looking forward to reading the whole series. I only got through the first one, and that only by forcing myself to get through to the end. Very poorly written; I couldn't believe something so bad could get so much publicity and so many sales. I don't really watch any Christian movies, especially if I know they're Christian-produced, because I'm sure they're going to be boring and full of crap. Even the movies on the Hallmark channel are unwatchable to me because of the unrealistic views of history in some of them.

I have started listening to Christian radio in the car on the way home from work. Not every day, but sometimes. I like some of the songs but some seem offensive to me. As someone noted above, the ones where you love Jesus like your boyfriend. And there's another one where the lyrics are talking about how it's hard to follow Jesus for this person, it needs to feel more like falling in love. Yuk!

[Shirley MacLaine]

The deconstruction of the Left Behind books on Slacktivist is amazing.

[lilwriter85]

I also tried to read Left Behind years ago when I was in high school. The writing was pretty awful. A friend of mine was raised in a ECLA church and as a teen her parents required that she read the Left Behind series and she hated the series My friend is no longer apart of the ECLA and she attends a liberal Episcopalian church. Her family especially her sister still tries to shove Christian lit on her and sometimes she reads some of the stuff and snarks on it. I have been around my friend and her family several times and the sister pretty much ignores pop culture except for music. She listens to secular music but she no longer watches non-Christian shows and she reads mostly Christian books. If she gets non-Christian books as gifts, she eithers gives them away or sells them to bookstores. My friend got a copy of The Help from her.

In my city there are two independent Christian bookstores that I know of and a megachurch/ministry also has an onsite store that sells Christian books, CD's and similar items which is open daily. There are at five Wiccan type stores in my city and part of the reason for that is because in New Mexico brujeria and curanderismo are still heavily practiced by some Hispanics and those stores cater to those groups.

[jenny_islander]

IME Christian pop--we get three Christian stations on our island!--is about 10 percent bread, 30 percent stones, and 60 percent glurge. The bread really is positive and encouraging as the tagline for one of the stations goes. The stones are songs that toss off lines like (paraphrase) "Oh, what a relief to know that nobody will disagree with me in Heaven." The glurge--it's been covered pretty well in this thread. Jesus-is-my-boyfriend songs. Lurching prom songs with different lyrics. Gospel where the lead singer can't stop showing off his/her voice long enough to finish a line. Pale copies of decent secular pop tunes from five years ago.

You know, secular stations, by and large, feature the really memorable, catchy stuff in each genre because they want people to stay tuned long enough to hear the commercials (or the pitch for funding). I have been listening to K-LOVE and its ilk frequently for years and I just had to struggle to remember . . . huh . . . three songs up to the caliber of non-glurgey secular pop? Yes, I think three. For anybody who's interested, that would be "It's Only the World" by Mandisa, "If We Are the Body" by Casting Crowns, and "How Far the East Is From the West" ditto. One of the three local Christian stations goes to old-fashioned choral hymn singing in the evening and the quality immediately goes up.

[emmiedahl]

It's a shame, because some of the best music in the Western world has been Christian music. I am a little crazy about Requiems, which follow the basic structure of a mass. Beethoven's Agnus Dei is stunning.

edited because I had two different songs mixed up

[jenny_islander]

It's a shame, because some of the best music in the Western world has been Christian music. I am a little crazy about Requiems, which follow the basic structure of a mass. Beethoven's Lachrymosa is stunning.

And this is precisely the stuff you don't find in Christian bookstores or on Christian radio IME. Nobody who works there seems to have a clue that a huge percentage of our classical corpus is church music. Besides Handel's Messiah, that is.

Some of the best modern religious songs are put out by secular, or at least non-CCM-stable, artists IME. "Alleluia, the Great Storm is Over" kicks most C-Pop to the curb and it's completely unknown on C-Radio.

[clarinetpower]

Kitty, you're in NC too, right? When I moved here I was amazed by all the shitty praise music on the radio, and how many people actually seem to like it.

I can think of some Christian music - that is, music made by Christians with Christian themes and content - that I consider to be legitimately fantastic. It's incredibly depressing to hear stories from really talented artists about how there is no space for them in the music industry. Christian music labels won't touch their work thanks to topics and lyrical content that are considered inappropriate for Christian music. And being an overtly Christian artist precludes distribution in general-market outlets, because everyone knows how bad Christian music sucks.

I can think of some people who totally sold out and went from making Christian music with challenging content and actual artistic merit to writing "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, because that's what they felt like they had to do to make a living. It's an industry that rewards safeness and sameness and punishes those who try to innovate.

YES. :clap:

I used to teach in a bunch of private schools, one being fundy-lite (sermons underscored by the diamond-encrusted grammy-winning pianist, led by a worship team, all the lyrics on Power Point with NO WRITTEN MUSIC ANYWHERE and the same stupid mustard seed and potter's wheel songs every stupid worship service) and many parents told me they came to the church for the MUSIC and stayed for the message. And I, being the music teacher, was supposed to be proud or happy or something???

I just pasted a grin on my face.

Then I taught their kids Bach.

*sings to the tune of "Proud to Be an American"*

I am proud to be a Lutheran

Because at least I know I read!

We grab a copy of the LBW

and sing in 4 part harmony!

[Shirley MacLaine]

4Tu9moIJ3uM

unf... so beautiful

[emmiedahl]

Rachmaninoff is always amazing. The 3rd piano concerto was my organic chemistry study music.

OT: I study certain classes while playing music and then when I can't remember something at test time, I sometimes can jog my memory by humming the music. I still associate biology with Fiona Apple.

[Stickers]

Anyone ever seen the animated movie The Ten Commandments? Me nether but I've watched some clips on youtube and it's clearly awful.

I do not get the point of making this expect to sell it to suckers. It's just a rip off of the amazing Prince Of Egypt, a movie that has flawless fluid perfect animation (and music, Hans Zimmer is a genius) . There is no need to remake it in lifeless CGI animation with no texturing :evil:

There's some other really bad ugly Christian animated movies that I know of, but I can't think of them right now :think:

[mirele]

PS. I have NEVER understood the whole 'sheep, flock, Shepard' thing is Christianity. I mean, do they really imagine that bronze age shepherds kept those flocks because the sheep were their fuzzie wuzzie little pets? No, it's because it was an economic necessity. They needed the meat, and hides. Think lamb chops and wool blankets.

Sheep are herd animals. They get spooked by lots of stuff.

Sheep get sheared--not a trauma-free operation.

Sheep also get slaughtered for food.

Sheep get sacrificed.

Nope, no fuzzy lambs here. Once I thought about what happens to sheep, I realized I didn't want to be a sheep following a Shepherd. Sorry, Jesus.