Recovering Fundie: Amanda Beth Flynn

[Amanda Flynn]

Hello all! I'm finally a member here, I used to silently lurk on the boards around 15 years ago when my family and I were still the topic of some of the discussions. LOL. I've been in recovery from fundamentalism, patriarchy, and christianity for almost a decade now, and now I am at a place where I've decided to speak out about it publicly. I just did a podcast interview about my experience leaving the patriarchal movement, and I'm gearing up to release my own podcast in March... creating a space and platform for women to share their survival stories and speak their truth! ❤️ 

So I'm very curious, who here is a former fundie??? Anyone? I'd love to connect and hear your stories! (And I'm happy to answer any questions about my own experience. ☺️) I'm also suprer curious to know who the key players in this movement are these days. I had assumed much of it had died away with the breakdown of Vision Forum, but in doing research these past few months I am so sad to discover that is not true. 😕 

Also, how do I get my name off the single fundies list? 😂 I'm no longer single OR a fundie. Thank god. 😉

Excited to finally officially be  on here and to connect!!

Edited January 30, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[Triplet3]

Welcome! I have to confess I don’t remember you or your family despite having been on FJ since 2011 - sorry! I’m not a former fundie either, but I’m always interested to hear the experiences of FJ-ers who are. Anyway, I’m glad you’re here and even more glad to hear that you’ve left fundamentalism behind you! Paging @Bethella re taking your name off the single fundies list, as she’s the person who manages it.

What led you to leave fundamentalism?

Edited January 29, 2023 by Triplet3

[Amanda Flynn]

2 minutes ago, Triplet3 said:

Welcome! I have to confess I don’t remember you or your family despite having been on FJ since 2011 - sorry! I’m not a former fundie either, but I’m always interested to hear the experiences of FJ-ers who are. Anyway, I’m glad you’re here and even more glad to hear that you’ve left fundamentalism behind you! Paging @Bethella re taking your name off the single fundies list, as she’s the person who manages it.

Thank you! I appreciate it! 😊

No worries that you don't know us, I guess that's good! LOL. My family got a little buzz because we were BFFs with Vision Forum sidekicks, lol. I had a popular modest fashion blog during the VF heyday as well (around 2007-2012). *cringe* Definitely have tried my best to scrub most of that from the internet. Oh well, all we can do is admit we were wrong and try to do better, right? 🤷‍♀️

9 minutes ago, Triplet3 said:

Welcome! I have to confess I don’t remember you or your family despite having been on FJ since 2011 - sorry! I’m not a former fundie either, but I’m always interested to hear the experiences of FJ-ers who are. Anyway, I’m glad you’re here and even more glad to hear that you’ve left fundamentalism behind you! Paging @Bethella re taking your name off the single fundies list, as she’s the person who manages it.

What led you to leave fundamentalism?

As far as leaving, I became disillusioned in my late teens because I was fiercely ambitious and wanted to make my mark on the world and build a career for myself, and that wasn't considered an option. I also had a big problem with the way women were treated as inferior, despite being declared "equal." Over the years I also found more and more aspects of the Bible that no longer sat well with me, especially in regards to the LGBTQ+ community, when I believed my life mission was to love others. Christianity, and fundamentalism in particular, was not loving, and I was seeing more hurt than helping. After years of drifting farther and farther from the beliefs I was helping to promote since I was about 12, I left the family-integrated church and the movement officially in 2015 at 25 years old. Today I consider myself deeply spiritual, but not religious. (I'm a little bit witchy. 😉)

Fortunately, my parents were/are amazing people who were swept up in an unhealthy thing, and I am lucky to have their love and support, even in now speaking out against the way we were raised and the beliefs we held. It's pretty cool. 😊

[Columbia]

Welcome!
 

3 hours ago, Amanda Flynn said:

I had assumed much of it had died away with the breakdown of Vision Forum, but in doing research these past few months I am so sad to discover that is not true.

Unfortunately, no. I think most of it has just shifted to other more unhealthy leaders (Doug Wilson, et al.)
 

I’d be interested in hearing your take on Vision Forum when your family was involved. Was it as economically/socially stratified as it seemed? Were you able to attend any of the big shenanigans (history conferences, trips, father/daughter conferences, etc)? What do you remember hearing when Doug was found out and VF collapsed? Are you still in contact with anyone from those days?

[JermajestyDuggar]

Did you know the Bairds? Their girl defined “ministry” is seemingly doing pretty good. Although I think a lot of people hate watch. Reddit hates them and they seem to talk about them s ask the time but we don’t talk about them much on FJ. I find them too annoying to watch regularly. 

[samurai_sarah]

Oops, posted by accident.

Edited January 30, 2023 by samurai_sarah

[Amanda Flynn]

15 hours ago, Columbia said:

Welcome!
 

Unfortunately, no. I think most of it has just shifted to other more unhealthy leaders (Doug Wilson, et al.)
 

I’d be interested in hearing your take on Vision Forum when your family was involved. Was it as economically/socially stratified as it seemed? Were you able to attend any of the big shenanigans (history conferences, trips, father/daughter conferences, etc)? What do you remember hearing when Doug was found out and VF collapsed? Are you still in contact with anyone from those days?

It's so sad that the patriarchy movement is still alive and well. Like, how many scandals and breakdowns will it take??? Makes me feel even more determined to continue to share my own story and help others share theirs.

So I think something that really saved my family from the full brunt of VF was the fact that we didn't have the income to get super involved. There were 11 of us kids (I am the oldest) and my dad as the sole breadwinner never made a crazy income. We lived simply, and we were very happy with that, but the big VF events were out of our budget. A few of us did attend the Uniting Church and Family conference in 2002 I believe, and whenever DP or other VF or family integrated associates were in town or speaking at local homeschool conventions, we attended. Of course, we listened to all of the audios as a family, during family devotions or while driving in our 15 passenger van, so we still got a lot of the doctrine, and it was all preached from the pulpit of our church. There were many members of our church (including our best friends growing up, one of whom became the "5th trustee" at VF's Jamestown anniversary event) who either had the means or made the means to attend many more of the events around the country. 

By the time the DP scandal broke, I had already distanced myself from the patriarchy movement and was open about my disagreements and skepticism. (My family was to an extent as well, however we still attended the family-integrated church where DP had many fans.) I think at that point I wasn't surprised. I'd come to see that behind many prominent faith leaders there is a dark side. Really, behind all kinds of leaders. Power corrupts easily, and everyone is human. They do awful shit. And the worst is when they don't own up to it, or dismiss it instead of apologizing and trying to make restitution. It's gross.

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Did you know the Bairds? Their girl defined “ministry” is seemingly doing pretty good. Although I think a lot of people hate watch. Reddit hates them and they seem to talk about them s ask the time but we don’t talk about them much on FJ. I find them too annoying to watch regularly. 

The name is familiar, but I don't believe I ever met them. Maybe we had some mutual friends. 🤷‍♀️

I just went to look them up and discovered Fundamentalists Wiki. 😂 What a treasure!

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Amanda Flynn said:

It's so sad that the patriarchy movement is still alive and well. Like, how many scandals and breakdowns will it take??? Makes me feel even more determined to continue to share my own story and help others share theirs.

So I think something that really saved my family from the full brunt of VF was the fact that we didn't have the income to get super involved. There were 11 of us kids (I am the oldest) and my dad as the sole breadwinner never made a crazy income. We lived simply, and we were very happy with that, but the big VF events were out of our budget. A few of us did attend the Uniting Church and Family conference in 2002 I believe, and whenever DP or other VF or family integrated associates were in town or speaking at local homeschool conventions, we attended. Of course, we listened to all of the audios as a family, during family devotions or while driving in our 15 passenger van, so we still got a lot of the doctrine, and it was all preached from the pulpit of our church. There were many members of our church (including our best friends growing up, one of whom became the "5th trustee" at VF's Jamestown anniversary event) who either had the means or made the means to attend many more of the events around the country. 

By the time the DP scandal broke, I had already distanced myself from the patriarchy movement and was open about my disagreements and skepticism. (My family was to an extent as well, however we still attended the family-integrated church where DP had many fans.) I think at that point I wasn't surprised. I'd come to see that behind many prominent faith leaders there is a dark side. Really, behind all kinds of leaders. Power corrupts easily, and everyone is human. They do awful shit. And the worst is when they don't own up to it, or dismiss it instead of apologizing and trying to make restitution. It's gross.

The name is familiar, but I don't believe I ever met them. Maybe we had some mutual friends. 🤷‍♀️

I just went to look them up and discovered Fundamentalists Wiki. 😂 What a treasure!

You are probably far enough away from your fundie past to look through fundie wiki with a snort or snicker. It is fun to just look around at some of the families listed. 

[Columbia]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:32 AM, Amanda Flynn said:

So I think something that really saved my family from the full brunt of VF was the fact that we didn't have the income to get super involved.

When you say “saved from the full brunt” does that also include Return of the Daughters and other stay at home daughter materials? 

[Amanda Flynn]

On 1/30/2023 at 3:17 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

You are probably far enough away from your fundie past to look through fundie wiki with a snort or snicker. It is fun to just look around at some of the families listed. 

For sure. I've had a lot of time to heal, and while some of it is still baffling and infuriating, it doesn't sting the way it did 10 years ago. And sometimes the ridiculousness is so great... you just have to laugh. I could laugh harder if I didn't know that these teachings continue to harm so many to this day. 😕 

On 2/1/2023 at 6:22 PM, Columbia said:

When you say “saved from the full brunt” does that also include Return of the Daughters and other stay at home daughter materials? 

By the time the Return of the Daughters was released, I had begun to pull away from the teachings, so that specific material  had much less of an influence on me. (Crazy to think that I stayed in the church I was in for another 4 years after that!) But my family definitely experienced and supported the stay at home daughter movement and many materials in the early 2000s. While we didn't attend all of the specific events, we read some of the books, listened to the audios from Vision Forum, and this lifestyle/belief was taught from the pulpit of our church on a regular basis.

I'd say the peak of this influence in my own life was 2002-2010 (approx. age 13-21).

[neuroticcat]

Welcome and congratulations on finding your way out!

I wouldn’t say I’m a former fundie, but I I bought into conservative complimentarian theology as a young wife. I regret to say that it was almost entirely self adopted through books and magazines like Above Rubies and being influenced by Duggars et al . I think the rigid controls felt “right” to me as someone who came from an abusive nonfundie home.

I think if my spouse had been fundie at all we likely would have been a fundie family. Instead I just applied a hodgepodge fundie things to my stay at home mom roles. Thankfully I never bought too much into the parenting model because of my own upbringing. Free Jinger had been a helpful place to process everything. 
 

Im interested to know - do you find yourself drawn to other high control environments now? 
 

I think key fundies today: Doug Wilson and his fans. Dale Partridge and Home Church movement. Places where Classical homeschooling and Christian nationalism collide. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Coconut Flan
Text speak.

[browngrl]

Back in the day I followed a number of fundie bloggers and since the end of the blogs I've lost track of them  At the time I used to worry about some of the bloggers I would read about and I used to hope that they would find their way to freedom.  I'm curious to know if you were one of the bloggers I followed. If it is not too personal, what was the name of your blog? 

In any case, I'm glad you made it out of fundamentalism. 

[Amanda Flynn]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:43 PM, neuroticcat said:

Welcome and congratulations on finding your way out!

I wouldn’t say I’m a former fundie, but I I bought into conservative complimentarian theology as a young wife. I regret to say that it was almost entirely self adopted through books and magazines like Above Rubies and being influenced by Duggars et al . I think the rigid controls felt “right” to me as someone who came from an abusive nonfundie home.

I think if my spouse had been fundie at all we likely would have been a fundie family. Instead I just applied a hodgepodge fundie things to my stay at home mom roles. Thankfully I never bought too much into the parenting model because of my own upbringing. Free Jinger had been a helpful place to process everything. 
 

Im interested to know - do you find yourself drawn to other high control environments now? 
 

I think key fundies today: Doug Wilson and his fans. Dale Partridge and Home Church movement. Places where Classical homeschooling and Christian nationalism collide. 

Above Rubies has been interesting for me to learn more about. It didn't come into my life until I was already pulling away from the patriarchy/quiverfull movement, in my early 20s. I do remember going to one of their retreats in upstate New York with my mom, sisters, and a bunch of women from our church. It happened to fall on my birthday and I was PISSED. I remember the woman who wrote "The Challenge" (a novel about a man and woman who entered into a courtship where he felt he wasn't supposed to touch her at all before marriage, it was super weird and I hated it) was there, and Nancy Campbell kept going on  and on about being a "Womb-an." 🙄 How did you first find that magazine?

I am not particularly drawn to high control environments today, but I have come to realize that because of my personality I am a prime target for cult-like organizations, mlms, even various groups, causes, business and organizations. It's important to me to feel that I am special and have purpose in my life, and that makes it super easy to drink the cool aid. It definitely contributed to me buying into the whole stay-at-home-daughter scam 15 years ago, and now that I have that awareness I am very cautious about what I become involved in, and don't give my unending trust and obedience to any human.

On 2/7/2023 at 3:30 PM, browngrl said:

Back in the day I followed a number of fundie bloggers and since the end of the blogs I've lost track of them  At the time I used to worry about some of the bloggers I would read about and I used to hope that they would find their way to freedom.  I'm curious to know if you were one of the bloggers I followed. If it is not too personal, what was the name of your blog? 

In any case, I'm glad you made it out of fundamentalism. 

Thank you! My fashion blog back in the day was AmandaBeth Online, and my family was featured heavily on the Thomas and Niednagel family blogs, as we were besties (and one of the Thomases married my sister). We had our own Flynn family blog but ended up making it private because we knew people here read it and there were occasional topics about our family. I didn't care so much, but my parents and many of my siblings are very private. Even today it's tricky as I try to tell my story and start a very public podcast, because I want to be respectful of them all.

[neuroticcat]

Thanks for replying.

 

Hmmm, you know? I'm not really sure how I came across Above Rubies to begin with. I discovered the Duggars when I was a very new mom and watched their early shows. It's possible it was through them? This was before smartphones and the rise of social media, so I imagine through that or some kind of other print resource the Duggars recommended. It's possible I picked up a magazine at a homeschool conference or something. I remember reading "Managers of Their Homes" back then. Once I was on the Above Rubies subscription list, though, it just follows you around - haha. That novel sounds terrible by the way. Very cringe.

I hear you on personality-wiring that makes one susceptible for cult-like organizations.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think once you’ve been in one cult, you’re primed to be sucked into another. I read that statistically you are more likely to join a cult if you’ve been in one in the past. Cults prime your brain for it. The tactics are familiar. 

[Smee]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:10 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think once you’ve been in one cult, you’re primed to be sucked into another. I read that statistically you are more likely to join a cult if you’ve been in one in the past. Cults prime your brain for it. The tactics are familiar. 

It’s like with abusive relationships. After escaping a horrible man who has battered your sense of self-worth, the love bombing from someone new can feel extra significant and your sense of “normal” is warped enough to not necessarily spot the red flags until your supports are already restricted. And then you feel extra crap about yourself like you “should” have known better (or just all men are abusive a-holes).

I listened to this podcast episode the other day, what she says about “cult-ish” things rings true - I see it in everything from fans of The Barefoot Investor (is that big outside of Aus? I’m so sick of people recommending it here haha) to people who get obsessive about attending every single Parkrun event ever.
https://i-weigh-with-jameela-jamil.simplecast.com/episodes/cults-with-amanda-montell-n5evgBkB

[Seahorse Wrangler]

welcome Amanda. if you are familiar with Reddit, there's FundieSnarkUncensored  where there are a few ex-fundies.

[Amanda Flynn]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:32 PM, Smee said:

It’s like with abusive relationships. After escaping a horrible man who has battered your sense of self-worth, the love bombing from someone new can feel extra significant and your sense of “normal” is warped enough to not necessarily spot the red flags until your supports are already restricted. And then you feel extra crap about yourself like you “should” have known better (or just all men are abusive a-holes).

I listened to this podcast episode the other day, what she says about “cult-ish” things rings true - I see it in everything from fans of The Barefoot Investor (is that big outside of Aus? I’m so sick of people recommending it here haha) to people who get obsessive about attending every single Parkrun event ever.
https://i-weigh-with-jameela-jamil.simplecast.com/episodes/cults-with-amanda-montell-n5evgBkB

omg yes, you're exactly right! I've even seen that in my own relationships, where I sought emotionally unavailable men who didn't treat me well over and over again. (So thankful now to be in an amazing relationship with a man who is kind and honest and loyal.) Thank you for the podcast rec, I will listen! And no I haven't heard of The Barefoot Investor, interesting!

On 2/19/2023 at 7:00 PM, Seahorse Wrangler said:

welcome Amanda. if you are familiar with Reddit, there's FundieSnarkUncensored  where there are a few ex-fundies.

Thank you for the link!

[Khendra]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:51 PM, Amanda Flynn said:

Above Rubies has been interesting for me to learn more about. It didn't come into my life until I was already pulling away from the patriarchy/quiverfull movement, in my early 20s. I do remember going to one of their retreats in upstate New York with my mom, sisters, and a bunch of women from our church. It happened to fall on my birthday and I was PISSED. I remember the woman who wrote "The Challenge" (a novel about a man and woman who entered into a courtship where he felt he wasn't supposed to touch her at all before marriage, it was super weird and I hated it) was there, and Nancy Campbell kept going on  and on about being a "Womb-an." 🙄 How did you first find that magazine?

I am not particularly drawn to high control environments today, but I have come to realize that because of my personality I am a prime target for cult-like organizations, mlms, even various groups, causes, business and organizations. It's important to me to feel that I am special and have purpose in my life, and that makes it super easy to drink the cool aid. It definitely contributed to me buying into the whole stay-at-home-daughter scam 15 years ago, and now that I have that awareness I am very cautious about what I become involved in, and don't give my unending trust and obedience to any human.

Thank you! My fashion blog back in the day was AmandaBeth Online, and my family was featured heavily on the Thomas and Niednagel family blogs, as we were besties (and one of the Thomases married my sister). We had our own Flynn family blog but ended up making it private because we knew people here read it and there were occasional topics about our family. I didn't care so much, but my parents and many of my siblings are very private. Even today it's tricky as I try to tell my story and start a very public podcast, because I want to be respectful of them all.

Hi! I'm a bit late to this, but I do remember your family from Jordan Niednagel's blog.

Are you still sociable with the Niednagels? They were my introduction to patriarchy. I didn't grow up in a patriarchal environment myself (my dad is very live and let live), but I got into the Niednagels ' brain types system about 20 years ago, and was gradually exposed to the patriarchy environment through the blogs and social media.

My understanding is Jordan is still heavily involved with Doug Wilson, whereas Jeremy is much more aware of the dangers of excessive patriarchy.

[Amanda Flynn]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:50 AM, Khendra said:

Hi! I'm a bit late to this, but I do remember your family from Jordan Niednagel's blog.

Are you still sociable with the Niednagels? They were my introduction to patriarchy. I didn't grow up in a patriarchal environment myself (my dad is very live and let live), but I got into the Niednagels ' brain types system about 20 years ago, and was gradually exposed to the patriarchy environment through the blogs and social media.

My understanding is Jordan is still heavily involved with Doug Wilson, whereas Jeremy is much more aware of the dangers of excessive patriarchy.

Hi! Sorry for the late reply! Melissa (wife of Jordan) was my closest friend while I was growing up and while we don't chat very often because of life and distance, our families and extended families are close (her brother is my brother-in-law). I don't know where they stand on everything today but in catching up with her over the past year, I know that she has evolved in many of her beliefs as well. I can't speak to anyone else, because I don't actually know, lol.

[Khendra]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:59 AM, Amanda Flynn said:

Hi! Sorry for the late reply! Melissa (wife of Jordan) was my closest friend while I was growing up and while we don't chat very often because of life and distance, our families and extended families are close (her brother is my brother-in-law). I don't know where they stand on everything today but in catching up with her over the past year, I know that she has evolved in many of her beliefs as well. I can't speak to anyone else, because I don't actually know, lol.

That's great to hear!

My dad and I met Melissa's parents back in 2015. They seemed like nice folks. Melissa was always nice in the limited social media I saw of her as well.