Racism within the BRF

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

It still seems a bit crazy to me.  At 83 it's time to retire gracefully.  

This is a bit ageist., dont' you think? There are 83-year olds who are still capable of doing a good job. Besides, I don't think this woman was racist because she is 83. I suspect she said the same thing when she was in her 40's or 50's.

[Jackie3]

So now there's racism in the Royal family? I've been reading posts for months, saying Meghan exagerated, whined or lied about the racism she experienced. Here's a quote from Tabitha, but there are dozens of others.

Quote

He accuses them of being miserable uncaring trapped racists because he can and they can’t  to share their side or defend themselves. 

And another from Louisa05, who seemed to think the racism Meghan spoke of was an invention used as an offensive tactic.

Quote

The Queen could miss it because she was at the State Opening of Parliament and those two would turn it in to a racist snub that shows how persecuted they and their children are. 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jackie3

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, viii said:

Well, I am sure this is not her first ill remark that she's made.

Quite likely, but it may be the first (and last) time sheʻs done this in front of witnesses who aren't afraid to speak up about her vile behavior.

The WaPo has some more details.

Quote

 

Mandu Reid, leader of the Women’s Equality Party, witnessed the exchange at the palace and told The Washington Post it felt like “an interrogation.”

“We were talking and were approached by Lady Susan Hussey — I know it was her because she was wearing a badge with her name on it,” Reid said.

“It was question after question … it wasn’t fleeting, it was several minutes,” she said. “It got more and more uncomfortable for us. Was she going to ask for ID next? It really felt like that almost.”

She said that after it was over, she and Fulani “looked at each other, incredulous.”

 

[viii]

I love that some people are trying to blame this on Harry and Meghan, saying they’re trying to ruin Earthshot. Yeah, ok. 

[louisa05]

2 minutes ago, viii said:

I love that some people are trying to blame this on Harry and Meghan, saying they’re trying to ruin Earthshot. Yeah, ok. 

The woman telling the story has tweeted many things in support of M & H  and the Sussex Squad, including claiming racist treatment where there was none (i.e Archie not getting a title due to racism, which would have required George IV time traveling to learn that a descendant born 105 years later would have a black grandmother). She also lied about how she reacted to this and about interacting with the Queen after it. She claims she spent the rest of the event standing away from everyone and talking to no one and that she never interacted with the Queen. But there are photos and a video of her in the middle of the crowd and speaking personally with Camilla. 

[Coconut Flan]

8 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The woman telling the story has tweeted many things in support of M & H  and the Sussex Squad, including claiming racist treatment where there was none (i.e Archie not getting a title due to racism, which would have required George IV time traveling to learn that a descendant born 105 years later would have a black grandmother). She also lied about how she reacted to this and about interacting with the Queen after it. She claims she spent the rest of the event standing away from everyone and talking to no one and that she never interacted with the Queen. But there are photos and a video of her in the middle of the crowd and speaking personally with Camilla. 

How interesting.  

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

How interesting.  

I feel like this woman went in the building looking to prove something. And she found an 83 year old who interacted awkwardly and (judging by what she reported herself) then baited the woman into being inappropriate. 

[viii]

Wow. I knew the hatred for Harry and Meghan was high but this is a whole next level. How utterly disgusting to be questioning a WOC’s story of racism, simply because she has supported H&M in the past. 

It’s not like this “83 year old who interacted awkwardly” is a rarity in the royal family. It’s not like they’ve ever been accused of racism before. Nah, not at all. It’s not like Princess Michael wore a racist brooch. It’s not like Prince Philip told American students studying in China they were going to become “slitty eyed”. Nah, this poor innocent 83 year old was clearly baited. 

Give me a fucking break. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

I feel like this woman went in the building looking to prove something. And she found an 83 year old who interacted awkwardly and (judging by what she reported herself) then baited the woman into being inappropriate. 

 

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

I feel like this woman went in the building looking to prove something. And she found an 83 year old who interacted awkwardly and (judging by what she reported herself) then baited the woman into being inappropriate. 

It’s all the victim’s fault! She baited the racist! She MADE her say racist things! The white Baronness is the victim here. Is that what you are saying?

It’s interesting that you believe that ordinary, inclusive, accepting people can be “baited” into racism by the right person.

What is the “baiting “ anyway? Refusing to share the nationality of your ancestors?

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jackie3

[noseybutt]

There was a witness who appears to have corroborated the exchange. Given Lady Hussey was the one asking questions, it seems highly unlikely that she was baited.

Further, the emphasis on her age seems strange to me because it seems to be offered up as some sort of mitigating factor? 

I have relatives in that age range (and younger) who say racist things and act in racist ways. They are not terrible people in many aspects of their lives and I love them dearly. But glossing over their bad behavior does not help an individual (or family or community) heal the legacy.

 

 

[prayawaythefundie]

Oh wow, I just used the same reaction as @Jackie3, maybe there really are signs of the second coming. 😳

Sarcasm aside, the remarks were intolerable and conspiracy theories won‘t help. Seems like the palace did what was to be done this time but they do have to review the „vibes“ (for lack of a better word) inside the royal households on a grand scale. I‘m really torn on whether I believe that Charles gets this. He has principles and has held ideas for decades that have been considered everything from crazy to revolutionary to modern to just right un the end. But he has also been described a traditionalist in style.

About the „not a racist family“ remark from William, there is no denying that Philip made a lot of racist comments. However having a racist in the family does not make the family itself racist. I‘d say pretty much every family has a racist among them (in mine it‘s the step mother who is also not big on women‘s rights). But you will have to find a way to deal with it and it can’t just be ignored. The BRF will have work to do when it comes to dealing with both racist individuals and institutional racism.

[rosamundi]

I do wonder if the somewhat blurred lines between "official at the Palace" and "close personal friend of the Queen" didn't help here.

Something like this:

Email to "group all staff @ Buckingham Palace": All employees need to do their mandatory diversity and inclusion training [link].

Lady Hussey doesn't do it.

HR follows up, to silence. HR follows up again. "Oh, no, dear, I'm not an employee, I'm not paid, after all."

HR gives up.

Completely on the ISB, here, but I do wonder.

"I've been Lady of the Bedchamber for more than sixty years, I've met all sorts of people, nobody's complained before."

Yes, because you're in a position of soft power, but power nonetheless, maybe people didn't feel able to complain before.

[Chiari]

47 minutes ago, rosamundi said:

I do wonder if the somewhat blurred lines between "official at the Palace" and "close personal friend of the Queen" didn't help here.

Something like this:

Email to "group all staff @ Buckingham Palace": All employees need to do their mandatory diversity and inclusion training [link].

Lady Hussey doesn't do it.

HR follows up, to silence. HR follows up again. "Oh, no, dear, I'm not an employee, I'm not paid, after all."

HR gives up.

Completely on the ISB, here, but I do wonder.

"I've been Lady of the Bedchamber for more than sixty years, I've met all sorts of people, nobody's complained before."

Yes, because you're in a position of soft power, but power nonetheless, maybe people didn't feel able to complain before.

I was thinking the same thing, if you are not a employee you don't have the "perks" (See salary) but also you don't have to follow the orders. And maybe no one wanted to say go say to the Queen that her dear friend had an unacceptable Behavior. 

Maybe it may also be a thing like "She is an Old bat that don't understand her Mistakes and it's Not going go live long, I really don't Want to " Fight" let's just ignore her"     It's a kind of reasoning I have for homophobic or sexist people I encounter sometimes

I'm Sorry for my English, my post seems quite confused, sometimes I try to apply my language structures to English, with Disastrous results

Edited December 1, 2022 by Chiari
Grammar mistakes

[nelliebelle1197]

9 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I feel like this woman went in the building looking to prove something. And she found an 83 year old who interacted awkwardly and (judging by what she reported herself) then baited the woman into being inappropriate. 

I think Meghan Markle is a liar and manipulator and I think Harry is a spoiled and entitled infant. I also think the woman’s story is very much what happened. Both things can be true.

[tabitha2]

Meghan is probably f Ing over the moon and gloating at all controversy esp as it takes away away from W&K right now  because that’s her way but making her the instigator is pretty far fetched. 

[louisa05]

3 hours ago, Chiari said:

I was thinking the same thing, if you are not a employee you don't have the "perks" (See salary) but also you don't have to follow the orders. And maybe no one wanted to say go say to the Queen that her dear friend had an unacceptable Behavior. 

Maybe it may also be a thing like "She is an Old bat that don't understand her Mistakes and it's Not going go live long, I really don't Want to " Fight" let's just ignore her"     It's a kind of reasoning I have for homophobic or sexist people I encounter sometimes

I'm Sorry for my English, my post seems quite confused, sometimes I try to apply my language structures to English, with Disastrous results

She was a friend of the late Queen, not Camilla. And she's been removed from her position. Do you all want her drawn and quartered in Picadilly Circus, too??? 

And regardless of how much you want to lionize the woman who started this, she did blatantly lie about the rest of the event. There are literal pictures and videos of her interacting with people in the middle of the crowd and speaking directly to Camilla. And she literally said that she "stood on the sidelines" and only spoke to those who approached her. 

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Meghan is probably f Ing over the moon and gloating at all controversy esp as it takes away away from W&K right now  because that’s her way but making her the instigator is pretty far fetched. 

I don't think Meghan instigated anything. But the woman who made the accusations has a history of pushing Meghan's agenda/accusations even when the reasons are false. 

And news bulletin (can't believe this needs said): Lady Sarah Hussey is not a member of the royal family. 

Also, if we're holding people accountable for the actions of their godparents, as the press wants to do to William right now, then everyone's royal sweet boy Harry has a lot to answer for. Look up his godparents. 

[tabitha2]

Harry didn’t choose Lady Susan Hussey as Godparent and has not spent any significant time around her growing up to be in anyway influenced by her that I know of. 
 

Also How is Harry in anyway responsible or needing to answer  for the actions of an elderly bigoted Grandmothers BFF many thousands of miles away in another country? 
 

But if as I predict Harry starts being sanctimonious and  “Deep”  about racism and throwing shade about his family I want someone to mention his own past… don’t give it unless you can take it. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by tabitha2

[louisa05]

17 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Harry didn’t choose Lady Susan Hussey as Godparent and has not spent any significant time around her growing up to be in anyway influenced by her that I know of. 
 

Also How is Harry in anyway responsible or needing to answer  for the actions of an elderly bigoted Grandmothers BFF many thousands of miles away in another country? 
 

But if as I predict Harry starts being sanctimonious and  “Deep”  about racism and throwing shade about his family I want someone to mention his own past… don’t give it unless you can take it. 

 

 

William didn't choose her either. Nor is there any evidence he grew up around her or influenced by her. 

And Harry's godfather is Prince Andrew, so he better not try that line of criticism. 

[TN-peach]

Don't members of the Royal Family typically have multiple godparents?  And for the Royal Family "godparent" is more of an honorary title.  It is not as though the children would live with their godparents if they were to become orphans.  I don't think the RF uses "godparent" like we do. 

[noseybutt]

16 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

William didn't choose her either. Nor is there any evidence he grew up around her or influenced by her. 

And Harry's godfather is Prince Andrew, so he better not try that line of criticism. 

William is a working royal though while Harry is not.

Of the many structural problems with the BRF, the most basic is the problem of royalty everywhere: the personal and the professional cannot be separated.

Harry had plenty of faults but he no longer needs to answer for the bad behavior of his relatives in the way that the working royals do. Because he no longer officially represents them or the institution.

Further, hyperbole along the lines that people want this elderly woman “drawn and quartered” doesn’t help. Nobody wants the death penalty. More like retirement. A very comfortable one.

[viii]

I don't think anyone on this board is suggesting that William and Harry are responsible for their actions of their godparents. Nobody is responsible for the actions of somebody else, you are only responsible for yours. 

[tabitha2]

Right? In modern times Godparent is almost always honorary even regular families. Anyway No one should be held in account or Questioned about the personal actions or attitude of Susan Hussey except for her. 

[noseybutt]

44 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Harry didn’t choose Lady Susan Hussey as Godparent and has not spent any significant time around her growing up to be in anyway influenced by her that I know of. 
 

Also How is Harry in anyway responsible or needing to answer  for the actions of an elderly bigoted Grandmothers BFF many thousands of miles away in another country? 
 

But if as I predict Harry starts being sanctimonious and  “Deep”  about racism and throwing shade about his family I want someone to mention his own past… don’t give it unless you can take it. 

 

 

 

I am drawn back to this corner of FJ like a moth to flame because it is so incongruent with the rest of the site.

With the other threads, there is plenty of snark but there is also a sincere cheering on when people grow and change, however imperfectly.

I feel about Harry and Meghan similarly to many of the adult children of fundamentalist families who start taking baby steps towards thinking and living independently. It’s messy and awkward and cringy and sometimes enraging. But also more interesting and hopeful than the ones who stay behind.

 

5 minutes ago, viii said:

I don't think anyone on this board is suggesting that William and Harry are responsible for their actions of their godparents. Nobody is responsible for the actions of somebody else, you are only responsible for yours. 

I agree nobody bears individual responsibility for their godparents and elderly relatives.

However the BRF is an institution. As such, there is an institutional responsibility for those who work within it.

A corporation is not excused when an employee behaves in a racist way. It has nothing to do with whether the other employees are, as individuals, racist or not.

 

[viii]

7 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

I am drawn back to this corner of FJ like a moth to flame because it is so incongruent with the rest of the site.

With the other threads, there is plenty of snark but there is also a sincere cheering on when people grow and change, however imperfectly.

I feel about Harry and Meghan similarly to many of the adult children of fundamentalist families who start taking baby steps towards thinking and living independently. It’s messy and awkward and cringy and sometimes enraging. But also more interesting and hopeful than the ones who stay behind.

The difference between this section and say the Duggar section is night and day. Jill is championed for the smallest change, while Harry and Meghan are dragged through the mud. However, I think the difference is a lot of posters in the Duggar section acknowledge that toxicity that Jill grew up in, while a lot of posters in this section are monarchists, and therefore view Harry & Meghan's actions as betrayal/treason. 

[noseybutt]

Just now, viii said:

The difference between this section and say the Duggar section is night and day. Jill is championed for the smallest change, while Harry and Meghan are dragged through the mud. However, I think the difference is a lot of posters in the Duggar section acknowledge that toxicity that Jill grew up in, while a lot of posters in this section are monarchists, and therefore view Harry & Meghan's actions as betrayal/treason. 

Excellent point. It explains so much. 

Is there such a thing as monarchists who acknowledge the toxicity and racism? Or is that simply not possible?

 I tend to think that the BRF as an institution can never be not-racist. The people though are quite capable of growing and learning (even at 83).