Racism within the BRF

[viii]

I decided to create a new thread because I didn't really know exactly where to stick this. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63810468

Lady Susan Hussey, who is Prince William's godmother and a former lady-in-waiting to Queen Elizabeth, has resigned over racist remarks that she made. If the royal family wants to convince the rest of the world that they are indeed, not a racist family/institution, then they got a lot of work to do. 

[Jackie3]

Here's the full conversastion:

Lady SH: Where are you from?

Me: Sistah Space.

SH: No, where do you come from?

Me: We're based in Hackney.

SH: No, what part of Africa are you from?

Me: I don't know, they didn't leave any records.

SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?

Me: Here, the UK.

SH: No, but what nationality are you?

Me: I am born here and am British.

SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?

Me: 'My people', lady, what is this?

SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you're from. When did you first come here?

Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when...

SH: Oh, I knew we'd get there in the end, you're Caribbean!

Me: No, lady, I am of African Caribbean descent and British nationality.

SH: Oh so you're from...

[hoipolloi]

This probably deserves its own thread although it is certainly pertinent to the H & M discussion. IOW, H & M were not lying or imagining things. The BRF & their allies have a real, deep-seated problem with racism and white supremacy. I will say that in this instance I think that the Palace's statement is clear & unequivocal and they issued it pretty quickly. Probably because there were witnesses.

The thing that took me aback was this detail:

Quote

But afterwards, Ms Fulani described on Twitter how the royal aide moved her hair aside to see her name badge, and then challenged her to explain where she was from. [Emphasis added]

What the FUCK? Can you imagine being at a formal reception and touching ANYONEʻS hair or clothing, without an invitation/request to do so? Or, touching you in any way without your request or invitation to do so? What is wrong with some people?

 

[TN-peach]

She touched the lady's hair in order to read her name tag.  1. You should never touch someone else's hair. 2. Never, ever touch a POC's hair. 

The BRF needs to give the Royal Court a better education on why such questions and their implications are improper,  Why touching other people's hair is improper. I imagine there are many other areas in which their education is lacking - especially among the older generation. 

[viii]

I think the issue is that it's really the blind leading the blind here. Majority of the aides, ladies-in-waiting, etc are of the older generation where they don't see the big deal. The BRF need some young, modern voices if they want to stay relevant in today's world. Right now, the BRF seems to fit more in the 1950's than in 2023. 

[hoipolloi]

3 minutes ago, viii said:

Majority of the aides, ladies-in-waiting, etc are of the older generation where they don't see the big deal.

Yes, and many of those positions are hereditary or occupied by people with the same, extremely stunted background.

Hussey got caught out but how many other courtiers are the same? Probably dozens -- say 75-90% of the people currently serving as aides, ladies/men in waiting, etc. Waiting for them to retire or die is not a good plan if the BRF really wants to walk the walk.

[Coconut Flan]

4 minutes ago, viii said:

I think the issue is that it's really the blind leading the blind here. Majority of the aides, ladies-in-waiting, etc are of the older generation where they don't see the big deal. The BRF need some young, modern voices if they want to stay relevant in today's world. Right now, the BRF seems to fit more in the 1950's than in 2023. 

That's definitely true of the QEII palace version.  Charles has a great opportunity to move on and at least get to the current century.  I don't know if he recognizes how out-dated so much is.

Just now, hoipolloi said:

Hussey got caught out but how many other courtiers are the same? Probably dozens -- say 75-90% of the people currently serving as aides, ladies/men in waiting, etc. Waiting for them to retire or die is not a good plan if the BRF really wants to walk the walk.

Camilla is on the right course by ditching ladies in waiting.

[viii]

All I know is that William's words of "we are very much not a racist family" are ringing quite hollow today. 

[hoipolloi]

27 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

1. You should never touch someone else's hair. 2. Never, ever touch a POC's hair. 

IMO, you should never touch ANYONE without their consent, and this also goes for children old enough to express their thoughts about interacting with someone who is not a parent or caregiver.

I do not like it when adults urge a small child to hug or kiss another adult, even a relative, and I don't think it's a good idea to teach children that they must allow touching, hugging, etc. when they don't want it. 

 

[viii]

2 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

I do not like it when adults urge a small child to hug or kiss another adult, even a relative, and I don't think it's a good idea to teach children that they must allow touching, hugging, etc. when they don't want it. 

Hard agree. I am a long distance aunt, and while my nieces and nephew are older now, when they were little, they didn't want to hug me right away because I was a stranger. While it sucked for me, I understood and respected that, and let them come to me on their own terms. Now they get off the plane and run straight into my arms. 

[AmazonGrace]

Unless you're a hairdresser you hardly ever have any legit reason to touch anyone's hair. Or go anywhere near a name badge. Assuming most people keep theirs somewhere in the chest region.

Spoiler

Lady Hussey, 83, was a close confidante of the late Queen and accompanied her at the funeral of the Duke of Edinburgh last year.

I'm not totally clear on what the job description of a lady-in-waiting  but why was somebody who is 83 not retired years ago?

[hoipolloi]

28 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I'm not totally clear on what the job description of a lady-in-waiting  but why was somebody who is 83 not retired years ago?

This article sort of explains the "job." This article provides a lot of info on Hussey.

 

[Chiari]

Awful thing! Glad Lady Hussey resigned (or was fired) 

I'm glad the situation was not ignored and was handled quite swiftly, let's hope this is the beginning of some (much due) modernization within the institution and policies are put into place even for less public incidents. 

I'm very sorry for Ms. Fulani

[TN-peach]

1 hour ago, viii said:

Hard agree. I am a long distance aunt, and while my nieces and nephew are older now, when they were little, they didn't want to hug me right away because I was a stranger. While it sucked for me, I understood and respected that, and let them come to me on their own terms. Now they get off the plane and run straight into my arms. 

My MIL hated that I didn't make my children hug her when she would come to visit.  I would just tell her that I wouldn't make my kids hug, kiss (fill in the blank) if they don't want to. And that there were times when they wouldn't hug me and I would accept that. 

[Coconut Flan]

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I'm not totally clear on what the job description of a lady-in-waiting  but why was somebody who is 83 not retired years ago?

I'm sure the Queen wanted women close to her own age or generation around her.  But wouldn't retirement have been automatic with the Queen's death?  It would seem odd to have a lady in waiting for someone who is gone.

[Chiari]

7 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I'm sure the Queen wanted women close to her own age or generation around her.  But wouldn't retirement have been automatic with the Queen's death?  It would seem odd to have a lady in waiting for someone who is gone.

Just a theory but maybe they (the Ladies in Waiting) were already scheduled for some events before HM passed so they just let them fulfill the appointments already booked and then they let them retire? The event was with UN, with a lot of foreign royals and dignitaries so maybe they wanted to take part in their last high profile events. 

Again, just a theory and sorry for my awful English

[Jackie3]

25 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I'm sure the Queen wanted women close to her own age or generation around her.  But wouldn't retirement have been automatic with the Queen's death?  It would seem odd to have a lady in waiting for someone who is gone.

She moved on to another “job” upon the queen’s death. I forget the exact title but it had something to do with welcoming dignitaries.

[Coconut Flan]

Well, she failed the welcoming part completely.

[rosamundi]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

But wouldn't retirement have been automatic with the Queen's death?  It would seem odd to have a lady in waiting for someone who is gone.

The late Queen's Ladies in Waiting became Ladies of the Household with their role being to help host events at Buckingham Palace.  The Queen Consort has replaced the role of Ladies in Waiting with Queen's Companions, which is a less formal and more infrequent role.

[viii]

Sounds like maybe Chucky needs to clean house and hire some actually decent people. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

But wouldn't retirement have been automatic with the Queen's death?  It would seem odd to have a lady in waiting for someone who is gone.

According to that piece in The Tatler, after his mother's death, C3 re-appointed Hussey as one of the household staff out of loyalty:

Quote

Following the Queen's death, she was made a lady of the household by King Charles III in recognition of her longstanding service to his mother. 

Until now, it seems that Hussey has lived a blameless life and received only praise, which does make it all the more amazing that such swift & decisive action was taken. Of course, you can just imagine members of the BRF saying, "Why, she's never said anything like that to ME!!!"

[viii]

Well, I am sure this is not her first ill remark that she's made. Her previous times were likely made to people of either similar beliefs or meeker in stature. Thankfully, Ngozi Fulani wasn't afraid to speak up. 

[AmazonGrace]

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

This article sort of explains the "job." This article provides a lot of info on Hussey.

 

Thank you!

Quote

,,,has spent the past 60 years accompanying the monarch at official state events, where she rubs shoulders with celebrities, politicians, and royalty alike. 

... women who are wealthy enough to afford to take the unpaid position....

Hussey's official title is Woman of the Bedchamber, a title given to ladies-in-waiting who are peeresses, the wife or widow of a peer

Seems like it's sort of baked-in expectation that everyone who has this job will be both an entitled snob and a practiced ass-kisser who has perfected fake politeness.

so it's not surprising if she thinks racist thoughts but how did she last so long without learning to shut it? Can't be a huge surprise by nowthat it doesn't go down well.

 

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

According to that piece in The Tatler, after his mother's death, C3 re-appointed Hussey as one of the household staff out of loyalty:

It still seems a bit crazy to me.  At 83 it's time to retire gracefully.  Although with their classist view of the world, I guess she wanted the title that went with the likely almost no duties.  It's time to retire the whole bunch of hangers on, IMO.

[noseybutt]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I'm sure the Queen wanted women close to her own age or generation around her.  But wouldn't retirement have been automatic with the Queen's death?  It would seem odd to have a lady in waiting for someone who is gone.

That would be ladies-waiting-no-more.

My hot take on racism and the BRF.

As an institution, I seriously doubt it’s capable of full reform. How would that even work since much of the wealth (properties, jewels) are firmly rooted in colonial history? They’re simply not going to give it back.

As people and individuals, yes they can do better and it would not be that difficult to catch up.