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Maxwell 56: Mary Found Freedom to Get Engaged


Coconut Flan

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45 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

We believe that this material universe is the result of a sequence of unique creative acts of God the Son, accomplished with the aid of God the Holy Spirit and directed by God the Father.

Huh? Am I understanding this correctly: they believe that Jesus created the world? I always figured it was God the Father who supposedly created everything since that’s an OT story. Did I not-believe in the wrong story all my life?

Edited by Nothing if not critical
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4 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

Huh? Am I understanding this correctly: they believe that Jesus created the world? I always figured it was God the Father who supposedly created everything since that’s an OT story. Did I not-believe in the wrong story all my life?

I’ve always believed like you did. 
And the Holy Spirit isn’t mentioned in the OT either. 
Where did they get all that from?  Seems extra biblical to me. 

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7 hours ago, HereticHick said:

We believe that only eight human souls, Noah and his family, survived the flood and that all mankind now living are descended from this family, dispersed over the face of the Earth

Ok this is where my WTF 🙇🏼‍♀️ beacon lights up. From Noah, Mrs Noah and 6 kids the earth was populated? Does the bell of incest ring there too? I wish I could see a debate between a secular cleric and a believer of this nonsense and see who comes out on top. 

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I’ve always wondered if incest was a big factor in infant death way back in the day. I know diseases and infections contributed. But I figure that constant incest in some isolated groups had to drive up the infant mortality rate. Because incest had to happen a lot way back in the day. Of course today, we can easily travel and meet new people we aren’t related to at all. But that has not always been the case. 

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46 minutes ago, anniebgood said:

From Noah, Mrs Noah and 6 kids the earth was populated? Does the bell of incest ring there too?

Mark Twain, in his delightfully blasphemous Letters from the Earth, makes exactly this point:

Quote

So the First Pair went forth from the Garden under a curse -- a permanent one. They had lost every pleasure they had possessed before "The Fall"; and yet they were rich, for they had gained one worth all the rest: they knew the Supreme Art [of sexual intercourse]. They practiced it diligently and were filled with contentment. The Deity ordered them to practice it. They obeyed, this time. But it was just as well it was not forbidden, for they would have practiced it anyhow, if a thousand Deities had forbidden it. Results followed. By the name of Cain and Abel. And these had some sisters; and knew what to do with them. And so there were some more results: Cain and Abel begot some nephews and nieces. These, in their turn, begot some second cousins. At this point classification of relationships began to get difficult, and the attempt to keep it up was abandoned. [Emphasis added]

 

Edited by hoipolloi
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@hoipolloi, a bit OT: On Sunday, my friends and I visited the Mark Twain House in West Hartford, Connecticut, where our tour was led by an actor playing the Rev. Joseph Hopkins Twitchell, a Congregational minister who was Twain’s friend. He told us that Twain was not an atheist, but that he had no use for organized religion.

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All I want for Christmas is for Chelsey and John to spend the holidays with the Maxwells, instead of the Bontragers, and for her to blog about the whole celebration so we know who's there.

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Sarah is in this video for a second each time.  But you can stop the video to see her better.  She looks good.  Around 14:36 and 15:01  

 

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Who would have thought a couple of years ago that we'd have a video like that for Christmas this year?  

Merry Christmas to all the Maxwell followers!

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3 hours ago, theologygeek said:

Sarah is in this video for a second each time.  But you can stop the video to see her better.  She looks good.  Around 14:36 and 15:01  

 

Seeing videos like this make me so glad she is out of Maxhell.

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Wow! A genuinely merry Christmas, in keeping with Christian beliefs! Who’d a’ thunk  it?

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5 hours ago, theologygeek said:

Sarah is in this video for a second each time.  But you can stop the video to see her better.  She looks good.  Around 14:36 and 15:01  

 

Infinite thanks!’ok. 100,000 thanks !  Love the cute homemade video and I couldn’t be happier, seeing Sarah looking comfortable and happy!!!

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After reading the Seriously Steve this week and then seeing Sarah and Kody laughing with the kids for Christmas I am doubly thankful that she escaped. He sucks the joy out of everything. 

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Sarah's glow up these past few years has been nothing short of miraculous. From a trip (seemingly without any sibling chaperones 😵) to pack OCC shoeboxes in 2019 to the usual caroling and skirt-clad Christmas celebration with family in 2020 to skinny jeans and jewelry at the Johnson Strings concert in 2021 to cheerfully singing some Christmas carols in a normal church with a bunch of kids and her HUSBAND (that she met online, no less!) in 2022. 

To see Anna and Mary adapting to very new surroundings makes my heart happy but to see Sarah go from the pinched smiles with her family a few years ago to seeming very comfortable with her new husband and casting off a lot of the shackles of her father's rules now (when she would've experienced the descent into the belly of those rules, and been the most indoctrinated of all the girls) is just an amazing transformation.

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That video is so cute and worlds away from the typical bathrobe revue that has children woodenly reciting their lines taken directly from the gospels. If Steve saw it he must have been apoplectic.

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On 12/26/2022 at 11:20 PM, anniebgood said:

After reading the Seriously Steve this week and then seeing Sarah and Kody laughing with the kids for Christmas I am doubly thankful that she escaped. He sucks the joy out of everything. 

It’s what always made Steve and Teri so different than a lot of fundie families. Most fundie families aren’t against fun. Even their friends the Duggars aren’t against fun. Sure they have many other beliefs in common. But the Maxwell house always seemed so depressed to me. I would have had a hard time spending long amounts of time in an environment like that. 

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All of this makes me so curious as to what actually happened in Maxhell over the last couple of years. My instinct is that it had a lot to do with the Swift Otter boys and maybe Joseph in particular? He seems the most mainstream to me. He employs a lot of people from different backgrounds and spends more time with more normal people through his work. I wonder if Nathan took a look at his sisters and didn’t want the same for his girls so started attending church to give them a wider social circle. Whatever happened I’m so so glad for those women but I’m definitely very curious to know exactly what went down. 

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8 minutes ago, Lollipopgirl said:

All of this makes me so curious as to what actually happened in Maxhell over the last couple of years. My instinct is that it had a lot to do with the Swift Otter boys and maybe Joseph in particular? He seems the most mainstream to me. He employs a lot of people from different backgrounds and spends more time with more normal people through his work. I wonder if Nathan took a look at his sisters and didn’t want the same for his girls so started attending church to give them a wider social circle. Whatever happened I’m so so glad for those women but I’m definitely very curious to know exactly what went down. 

I always suspected Chelsy.  Sure the Bontragers are sexist, bigoted, conspiracy loving assholes but they seem to have fun, wear more stylish clothes, enjoy sports, travel outside the country, are into the Bible Bee, have a wider circle of friends, and cook better meals.

Edited by SPHASH
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I always figured it was the pandemic that made them start at a new church. But it could have been a bunch of things all mixed together. John marrying Chelsy, Jesse and Joe moving away, Sarah getting a concussion and taking a break from the blog, the new pastor encouraging college for the younger girls, and Sarah giving up the blog completely. 

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On 12/20/2022 at 12:48 PM, Nothing if not critical said:

Huh? Am I understanding this correctly: they believe that Jesus created the world? I always figured it was God the Father who supposedly created everything since that’s an OT story. Did I not-believe in the wrong story all my life?

From the perspective of that seems to have been held by the writers of the New Testament, many of the acts of "God" in the Old Testament are not assumed to be attributed to "God the Father" but more vaguely to "God unspecified/all" -- any or all members of the Trinity are assumed to be present and participating. This assumption flows from the idea that God's Spirit is God's self, and that Jesus and the Father "are one". This unity-of-God perspective is stated outright in many places throughout the NT documents, and it seems to be the general assumption (the alternative being to cease claiming to be monotheistic).

So, while Jesus is, of course, not mentioned in the Genesis accounts whatsoever "God" is mentioned, and Jesus and God "are one". That's why the New Testament author felt free to claim, "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." -- in Colossians. Which is where ABC is basing their claim of Jesus as Creator.

On the other hand the Spirit of God is mentioned in the Genesis account, so that inclusion is a bit more straightforward. "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." (Genesis 1:2)

Many people think that the "God" of the Old Testament was "God the Father" acting alone. It's not uncommon the hear and see that representation. However, people of a Christian-perspective who approach the Bible more academically and somewhat canonically tend to agree with the NT authors' trinitarian perspective that "they were all there, acting together" in the OT narratives.

Edited by Pammy
Apostrophe error
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1 hour ago, SPHASH said:

I always suspected Chelsy.  Sure the Bontragers are sexist, bigoted, conspiracy loving assholes but they seem to have fun, wear more stylish clothes, enjoy sports, travel outside the country, are into the Bible Bee, have a wider circle of friends, and cook better meals.

Bontragers are against college and any of their kids seem to have the mainstream life some Maxwells currently have.  If Chelsy encouraged her SILs  to change, good for her (I doubt she could ever imagine a girl going to college, though). But no way the changes are inspired by Bontragers. 

 

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4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

If Chelsy encouraged her SILs  to change, good for her (I doubt she could ever imagine a girl going to college, though).

Chelsy's blog posts make me think that she was at least cheering from the sidelines if not actively helping. 

Chelsy also claims that it was her friend & wedding photographer who showed Sarah how to navigate online dating, which could well be true.

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