Maxwell 56: Mary Found Freedom to Get Engaged

[treemom]

Thanks.  It was very unexpected as I was pretty firm I would never remarry, but sometimes well someone is so right for you, you reconsider a lot of things.

[louannems]

1 hour ago, treemom said:

Thanks.  It was very unexpected as I was pretty firm I would never remarry, but sometimes well someone is so right for you, you reconsider a lot of things.

My mom always said she would never remarry if my dad died.  Well, he did die at age 75 and she remarried five MONTHS later!  She’s never been happier.

[CaptainFunderpants]

8 hours ago, louannems said:

My mom always said she would never remarry if my dad died.  Well, he did die at age 75 and she remarried five MONTHS later!  She’s never been happier.

The grandma of one of my best friends has now had two successful marriages. The first lasted 40 years, the second 25. Hilariously, the first and second husband were BFFs. The 2nd husband's kids wanted their dad buried with their mom, while the 2nd husband wanted his ashes to be spread at the beach with his BFF, so... Grandma's 1st and 2nd husband are now together forever. I don't think they were gay in the slightest, it's just funny and cute -very Shakespearean.

[JermajestyDuggar]

ABC asked some random students what their favorite holiday drink is. Sam said an americano for the caffeine. Mary said hazelnut latte. Her voice sounded so normal! I remember when she was younger and if there was a video of her talking, she sounded so young. I suppose she was younger then. But I thought she sounded younger than her actual age. In the quick video clip, her voice sounded totally normal and not immature at all. 

[kpmom]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

ABC asked some random students what their favorite holiday drink is. Sam said an americano for the caffeine. Mary said hazelnut latte. Her voice sounded so normal! I remember when she was younger and if there was a video of her talking, she sounded so young. I suppose she was younger then. But I thought she sounded younger than her actual age. In the quick video clip, her voice sounded totally normal and not immature at all. 

I remember that video. It was a holiday/end of year video. It was taped just before John got married, so Mary was early 20’s maybe?  Her voice was a little cringy, like she was trying to do Michelle Duggar’s breathy little girl voice. 🤮

Glad she let that go. 

[CaptainFunderpants]

9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

ABC asked some random students what their favorite holiday drink is. Sam said an americano for the caffeine. Mary said hazelnut latte. Her voice sounded so normal! I remember when she was younger and if there was a video of her talking, she sounded so young. I suppose she was younger then. But I thought she sounded younger than her actual age. In the quick video clip, her voice sounded totally normal and not immature at all. 

I'm so confused as to how either of those is a holiday drink. Daily drink? Absolutely. Holiday? Um, no.

[Bethy]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:00 AM, CaptainFunderpants said:

I'm also pretty sure Chelsy is pregnant again -she wore similarly fitting clothes to Sarah's wedding as she did to Denver's. Denver's she was pregnant with Maddy but hadn't announced yet.

 

For the sake of Chelsy's health I hope you're wrong. It is possible that, after housing three humans in quick succession, she's just a little poochier in the belly now than she was even one pregnancy ago. They spent a lot of time in the NICU with Maddy which doesn't leave much time for home-cooked meals. (I sent a home-cooked meal to friends who had a baby in the NICU and they were so grateful to have something to eat besides late-night drive-thru food.) Also she was probably limited on being able to exercise after her heart issues emerged. Lots of reasons she could be looking larger than we expect.

[CaptainFunderpants]

52 minutes ago, Bethy said:

For the sake of Chelsy's health I hope you're wrong. It is possible that, after housing three humans in quick succession, she's just a little poochier in the belly now than she was even one pregnancy ago. They spent a lot of time in the NICU with Maddy which doesn't leave much time for home-cooked meals. (I sent a home-cooked meal to friends who had a baby in the NICU and they were so grateful to have something to eat besides late-night drive-thru food.) Also she was probably limited on being able to exercise after her heart issues emerged. Lots of reasons she could be looking larger than we expect.

If you look, she's also got something or someone in front of her stomach, which is usually one of the big tells in Duggar Land.

There's also the fact that her face has changed again. Not from the palsy -if you go back and look at her preggo face, she goes from preggo face to not preggo face and now back again.

She and John were on a breakneck pace and you know she's itching to get back to it. It's been 18 months since she gave birth to Maddy and with Chelsy approaching 32 and her mom's final pregnancy throughout [Becky's] year of being 39... There's not really an indication what Chelsy's own pace'll be/sustain as, because her mom's pregnancy gaps were pretty variable; sometimes 18 months, sometimes 33.

If Chelsy averaged 18 months, that math would be:

- Mid-2023 = 4
- End of 2024 = 5
- Mid-2026 = 6
- End of 2027 = 7
- Mid-2029 = 8
- End of 2030 = 9
-January 2031 = Chelsy turns 40.

Provided her health issues don't get in the way, nine would be the max without multiples. I'll be curious to see if Chelsy feels the need to try and keep up with her younger marrying siblings. You could easily see Ma and Pa Bontrager nudging their children into prolific procreation. Heck, four kids have given them 12 grandkids in less than four years of marriage and without multiples, Allison's popped out an additional two in just over two years of marriage... So, apparently they ARE nudging them. If the vasectomy reversal speech by Steve wasn't nudge enough.

Praise the lord indeed on our behalf -while infertility is rough, the Bontragers are rougher and Praise and Denver is tanking the average, approaching two years without a pregnancy. And note the order of the names -I'm insinuating it is a Denver problem, because you know how much heat she's likely taking for not being pregnant yet.

I'll be curious to see about Mary and Sam. While Mary is from a prolifically procreating family, so many non-fundies have a few pregnancies close together before calling it quits and Sam himself is "only" one of four, so... It'll be a while before we get a read on what they're doing.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

I'm insinuating it is a Denver problem, because you know how much heat she's likely taking for not being pregnant yet.

Just several months after the wedding, there was a picture in which Praise had a bump. Of course, it means nothing (could be a bad photo angle, or just eating more than usually etc). But I wonder if something happened there. 

I won't be surprised if Chelsy is pregnant. She's SO fundie and stubborn. It's not a godly thing, it's just that she wants her big family (she wrote about it). Her bunch of obedient blue eyed kids. It's a decision and frankly, I doubt John has the power there.

[CaptainFunderpants]

11 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Just several months after the wedding, there was a picture in which Praise had a bump. Of course, it means nothing (could be a bad photo angle, or just eating more than usually etc). But I wonder if something happened there. 

I won't be surprised if Chelsy is pregnant. She's SO fundie and stubborn. It's not a godly thing, it's just that she wants her big family (she wrote about it). Her bunch of obedient blue eyed kids. It's a decision and frankly, I doubt John has the power there.

Oh it very well could be a her thing, but because she's likely getting curb-stomped by both her parents and in-laws... I'll send the good vibes here, even if she wouldn't reciprocate them toward my life choices.

[HereticHick]

I believe that Becky Bontrager had a miscarriage after age 40, which they made a big deal of.

[JermajestyDuggar]

36 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I believe that Becky Bontrager had a miscarriage after age 40, which they made a big deal of.

That could have been Ma Bowers. Or actually it could have been both women. Pregnancy in your 40s has a higher rate of miscarriage. I bet many fundie women have at least one miscarriage in their 40s and may not talk about it. Which is fine. They don’t have to tell the world everything. 

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That could have been Ma Bowers. Or actually it could have been both women. Pregnancy in your 40s has a higher rate of miscarriage. I bet many fundie women have at least one miscarriage in their 40s and may not talk about it. Which is fine. They don’t have to tell the world everything. 

I think both did. There is a reference to a Bontrager miscarriage here: https://bontragerfamilysingers.com/januaryrandomrecap 

And to Bowers miscarriages or stillbirths, named Courage Wilberforce, and Columbus: https://bowersbus.blogspot.com/2013/03/about-courage.html 

[Bethy]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:33 AM, CaptainFunderpants said:

Have we discussed whether we think Anna Craig Maxwell and Jesse are preventing vs. dealing with infertility? Maxhell has gone off the rails and so I feel like preventing is a distinct possibility.

I hope that whatever is going on is what Anna and Jesse want, and that whether it's what they want or not, that everyone on both sides of the family is leaving them alone about it. I can't imagine anything that would be much more painful than being a young, presumably healthy fundie bride from a huge family, married into a huge family, and desperately wanting a child but being unable to have one, and then having relatives heap guilt and shame on you for not having had a baby by now.

[Baxter]

43 minutes ago, Bethy said:

I hope that whatever is going on is what Anna and Jesse want, and that whether it's what they want or not, that everyone on both sides of the family is leaving them alone about it. I can't imagine anything that would be much more painful than being a young, presumably healthy fundie bride from a huge family, married into a huge family, and desperately wanting a child but being unable to have one, and then having relatives heap guilt and shame on you for not having had a baby by now.

I'm hoping based on their other life choices that they are using some sort of prevention. The fact that Jesse sold his debt free house and they moved into an apartment says a lot. Also, wasn't there some hint that Anna was attending some post secondary education? In those circumstances, it wouldn't be surprising for them to decide that the best thing to do would be to wait a bit to have a family. They clearly don't have a problem going against Steve's ideas. 

I hope it's not infertility. That might make them question their life choices and could send them down a fundier, more Steve-like path potentially. It's not logical because obviously Joe hasn't followed along with Steve's way of life and his family seems to be thriving. But, when have the fundies ever been swayed by logic? I very much hope this is a choice on their part. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 12/10/2022 at 12:52 PM, Baxter said:

I'm hoping based on their other life choices that they are using some sort of prevention. The fact that Jesse sold his debt free house and they moved into an apartment says a lot. Also, wasn't there some hint that Anna was attending some post secondary education? In those circumstances, it wouldn't be surprising for them to decide that the best thing to do would be to wait a bit to have a family. They clearly don't have a problem going against Steve's ideas. 

I hope it's not infertility. That might make them question their life choices and could send them down a fundier, more Steve-like path potentially. It's not logical because obviously Joe hasn't followed along with Steve's way of life and his family seems to be thriving. But, when have the fundies ever been swayed by logic? I very much hope this is a choice on their part. 

Also the fact that Anna Craig Maxwell is so very young. She's a year younger than Nurie. She got married at barely 20 and she's now 22.  Most 22-year-olds I know aren't married with kids. I hope she is able to enjoy being young in life.

[SassyPants]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:52 AM, Baxter said:

I'm hoping based on their other life choices that they are using some sort of prevention. The fact that Jesse sold his debt free house and they moved into an apartment says a lot. Also, wasn't there some hint that Anna was attending some post secondary education? In those circumstances, it wouldn't be surprising for them to decide that the best thing to do would be to wait a bit to have a family. They clearly don't have a problem going against Steve's ideas. 

I hope it's not infertility. That might make them question their life choices and could send them down a fundier, more Steve-like path potentially. It's not logical because obviously Joe hasn't followed along with Steve's way of life and his family seems to be thriving. But, when have the fundies ever been swayed by logic? I very much hope this is a choice on their part. 

I’m hoping it’s a case of them making “different” choices than their (or at least his) parents. Much like Steve, JB Duggar, Gil Bates…have done. And those dads best be quiet about others making different choices. We know JB’s dad didn’t care for JB’s reproductive or lifestyle choices, and while JB did complain about his dad, he did NOT respect his dad’s opinions or change his ways. Damn, when what goes around, comes around.

6 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Also the fact that Anna Craig Maxwell is so very young. She's a year younger than Nurie. She got married at barely 20 and she's now 22.  Most 22-year-olds I know aren't married with kids. I hope she is able to enjoy being young in life.

My parents have 6 grandsons aged 22-32. 3 are in longtime, live-in relationships. 1 recently moved on from his college GF. None are married and none have kids. 5 have college degrees, 3 post grads. One is in the trades. All work. It’s like fundies live in a different world all their own. Maybe these 2 are trying to bridge the worlds?

[ClareDeLune]

Brilliant photo on the ABC facebook page. Lady Warrior, caffeinated and educated, and playing sport all year round.  What heathen influences on your precious girls, Steve!  No wonder they are gone astray! https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=824358325670515&set=a.744011800371835

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, ClareDeLune said:

Brilliant photo on the ABC facebook page. Lady Warrior, caffeinated and educated, and playing sport all year round.  What heathen influences on your precious girls, Steve!  No wonder they are gone astray! https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=824358325670515&set=a.744011800371835

It does seem like there are some mainstream Christians at ABC. Which is good for Mary and Anna.

[Bethy]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:58 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It does seem like there are some mainstream Christians at ABC. Which is good for Mary and Anna.

I agree. Being raised pretty fundie it was honestly a surprise to me to come into adulthood and see that people who wore short skirts or drank alcohol or used profanity could actually love Jesus. I'm sure if you'd asked Anna and Mary a decade ago what makes a person a good Christian, they would've pointed to a lot of strictures that lined up with the way their family lived their lives (frumpers, boring music, bland food, no sports, no TV.) This is so good for them to see and mingle/live with.

[AverageGiraffe]

On 12/18/2022 at 8:14 PM, Bethy said:

I agree. Being raised pretty fundie it was honestly a surprise to me to come into adulthood and see that people who wore short skirts or drank alcohol or used profanity could actually love Jesus. I'm sure if you'd asked Anna and Mary a decade ago what makes a person a good Christian, they would've pointed to a lot of strictures that lined up with the way their family lived their lives (frumpers, boring music, bland food, no sports, no TV.) This is so good for them to see and mingle/live with.

I had a similar experience and it still sometimes surprises me at weird times. I wasn't raised fundie but very conservative Christian, and my parents didn't drink, swear, or smoke, and dressed modestly (not skirts only but just kind of standard suburban church mom kind of modest). My closest friends in high school were either church friends or "good kids" who didn't party. The first time I remember someone drinking alcohol in my direct presence, not just like a stranger at another table at a restaurant, was my best friend's dad having a beer on the couch when I was 13 and it shocked the hell out of me. I started swearing in Jr High, like most teenagers do, but I remember the first time I heard each of my parents swear-- it was within the last 7 or 8 years, and I'm in my mid-30s. All that to say, my surprise sometimes comes from 2 places: just how MANY people drink, smoke, swear, have casual sex, etc etc, and especially when I see my former friends who are still very active in church partaking. I was so so sheltered from all things heathen and hedonistic that I naively never realized how common things are. 

Now I drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, swear like a sailor, and am polyamorous... although I try to keep all that to a minimum around my don't-judge-me-or-say-anything-out-loud-but-clearly-don't-love-it parents 😂

[JermajestyDuggar]

37 minutes ago, AverageGiraffe said:

I had a similar experience and it still sometimes surprises me at weird times. I wasn't raised fundie but very conservative Christian, and my parents didn't drink, swear, or smoke, and dressed modestly (not skirts only but just kind of standard suburban church mom kind of modest). My closest friends in high school were either church friends or "good kids" who didn't party. The first time I remember someone drinking alcohol in my direct presence, not just like a stranger at another table at a restaurant, was my best friend's dad having a beer on the couch when I was 13 and it shocked the hell out of me. I started swearing in Jr High, like most teenagers do, but I remember the first time I heard each of my parents swear-- it was within the last 7 or 8 years, and I'm in my mid-30s. All that to say, my surprise sometimes comes from 2 places: just how MANY people drink, smoke, swear, have casual sex, etc etc, and especially when I see my former friends who are still very active in church partaking. I was so so sheltered from all things heathen and hedonistic that I naively never realized how common things are. 

Now I drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, swear like a sailor, and am polyamorous... although I try to keep all that to a minimum around my don't-judge-me-or-say-anything-out-loud-but-clearly-don't-love-it parents 😂

I guess I should count myself lucky that I knew all kinds of different Christian’s growing up. Some that drank and smoked while others who were goody goodies. 

[allyisyourpally5]

I hope that Jesse and Anna have just decided to hold off, live a little before jumping into creating a family. And good for them if they have. There is no rush at their age.

Watching the Duggar girls for example, marrying off as teens and getting pregnant straight away with no life experience or chance to just be a free grown up….those pictures of Joy after her miscarriage, holding her stillborn baby and to be honest she looked like a kid herself. They were painful to look at. I hope Jesse and Anna are just “living” and making friends and just living a normal life for a while.

[HereticHick]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:56 AM, ClareDeLune said:

Brilliant photo on the ABC facebook page. Lady Warrior, caffeinated and educated, and playing sport all year round.  What heathen influences on your precious girls, Steve!  No wonder they are gone astray! https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=824358325670515&set=a.744011800371835

I'm just laughing at the "Evolution" brand basketball. ABC doesn't believe in evolution.

 

From the ABC academic catalog:

"Concerning Creation: We believe that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are the literal history of the early Earth. We believe that this material universe is the result of a sequence of unique creative acts of God the Son, accomplished with the aid of God the Holy Spirit and directed by God the Father. We believe these creative acts were ex nihilo, completed by the mere spoken commands of God. We further believe that these creative acts were accomplished in six literal twenty-four hour days. Therefore we hold to a young earth view supported by the genealogies and other time information provided in the Word of God. We also believe that the material universe was created in total perfection but subsequently was sentenced to a slow decay and eventual destruction by the Curse (binding), which was part of the penalty for the disobedience of the parents of all mankind, Adam and Eve, whom we view as real, literal people, created on the sixth day of Creation. We reject all concepts of a pre-Adamic race. We believe that the Biblical Noahic Flood was a real, yearlong global event, the result of the judgment of God on the hopelessly rebellious descendants of Adam and Eve, and resulted in much of the present geology of the Earth, including most of the fossil graveyards of myriads of plants and animals then living. We believe that only eight human souls, Noah and his family, survived the flood and that all mankind now living are descended from this family, dispersed over the face of the Earth by the confusion of tongues described in Genesis 11. Since God created mankind into genders distinctly male and female, we believe that the only legitimate marriage is that between one man and one woman. (Matthew 19:4, 24:37; Genesis 1:1, 2; Colossians 1:16; 2 Peter 3:5; Exodus 20:11; Genesis 1:31; Genesis 1:27, 2:7-3:19; Genesis 6-8; Genesis 6:5, I Peter 3:6; Genesis 7:13 and 8:18; Genesis 2:22-24; Ephesians 5:22-33)"

[Howl]

13 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I'm just laughing at the "Evolution" brand basketball. ABC doesn't believe in evolution.

Excellent "catch"!