Maxwell 56: Mary Found Freedom to Get Engaged

[Hane]

9 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Doesn't Steve disapprove of organized sports?

Yep, but it’s pretty obvious that most of his kidults give zero fucks about what Stevehovah disapproves of these days!

[JermajestyDuggar]

42 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Doesn't Steve disapprove of organized sports?

When the boys were little, they played little league and Steve coaxed them to quit. Steve probably thinks organized sports are an idol. Like everything else that’s any fun. 

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

When the boys were little, they played little league and Steve coaxed them to quit. Steve probably thinks organized sports are an idol. Like everything else that’s any fun. 

Yes he does. I always wonder if any of kids would have enjoyed sports as kids. 

[MamaJunebug]

10 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Doesn't Steve disapprove of organized sports?

Why yes, yes he does! Also of anybody other than a child’ mother or father counseling, guiding, coaching said children. 
 

Big fat The Simpsons “HAW-haw!” in Steve’s general direction. 

[Bethy]

20 hours ago, Jana814 said:

Yes he does. I always wonder if any of kids would have enjoyed sports as kids. 

I'm sure at least some of them would have. Anna in particular seems very athletic and might have enjoyed track, cross country, or volleyball. (But...SHORTS! SHORT ONES! And also SPANDEX! Not to mention the idolatry aspect and the fear that a kid might respect their coach more than Steve.) Instead they all had to settle for fake Crossfit in the basement, weird skirt-clad workouts next to Uriah in the touring days, 3AM death marches in Colorado (also in long skirts) and family-only "turkey trots" on Thanksgiving.

[Hane]

@Bethy, it always struck me that the Stevehovah-endorsed athletic activities you just cited were mandatory, just like 5:30 AM family Bible time.

[Bethy]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

@Bethy, it always struck me that the Stevehovah-endorsed athletic activities you just cited were mandatory, just like 5:30 AM family Bible time.

They had to be, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to do them at all, because Steve taught them that anything fun was a sin.

So if they wanted to work out because it made them feel good, that would be fun (sin!) and an idol. But if Dad said they have to get up and go climb a mountain four hours before sunrise, that's just obedience.

[ElizaB]

I’ve said something like this before but the no sports thing always has made me mad because I think it ends up getting used by mega families in a selfish way. 
Having kids in activities is hard. I have to arrange and drive carpools, be flexible with dinner times, go and watch games, keep the calendar, wash uniforms.. the list goes on. Now, I completely understand not wanting activities to overtake everything, but I think they are good for my kids so we make it work. It would be so very hard to make it work with 8 plus kids. No, it’s much easier to say that Jesus doesn’t approve so we don’t have to do them and can feel smug about it instead of guilty that we can’t make it work

[Caroline]

32 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

I’ve said something like this before but the no sports thing always has made me mad because I think it ends up getting used by mega families in a selfish way. 
Having kids in activities is hard. I have to arrange and drive carpools, be flexible with dinner times, go and watch games, keep the calendar, wash uniforms.. the list goes on. Now, I completely understand not wanting activities to overtake everything, but I think they are good for my kids so we make it work. It would be so very hard to make it work with 8 plus kids. No, it’s much easier to say that Jesus doesn’t approve so we don’t have to do them and can feel smug about it instead of guilty that we can’t make it work

I completely agree. At least be honest about it: If your family is too big and you can't make it work, just say so. Don't pretend sports and other extra-curricular activities are bad because that's just not true. 

When our daughter was young we philosophically believed that we should provide her with creative and physical activities to explore because as an adult she would possibly be able to continue valuing creative and physical outlets as a form of self-care. 

And that is exactly what happened. She uses swimming (her sport for ten years), rowing (a sport she did in college),playing the piano, and drawing as ways to destress in her adult life.  That's healthy, and did require a lot of discipline and time on all our parts when she was a child. 

But the fundies we follow don't believe in too much creativity because that might lead to other ways of thinking and wouldn't let their kids wear traditional bathing suits, so it's better for their sense of control to just condemn it all. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I agree. The vast majority of large quiverful fundie families never allowed their children in sports or extra curricular activities. I always figured it was due to their lack of money and time for those things. Most fundie decisions when parenting is due to lack of money and time. Because they had way too many kids but don’t actually admit it. 

[SPHASH]

25 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I completely agree. At least be honest about it: If your family is too big and you can't make it work, just say so. Don't pretend sports and other extra-curricular activities are bad because that's just not true. 

When our daughter was young we philosophically believed that we should provide her with creative and physical activities to explore because as an adult she would possibly be able to continue valuing creative and physical outlets as a form of self-care. 

And that is exactly what happened. She uses swimming (her sport for ten years), rowing (a sport she did in college),playing the piano, and drawing as ways to destress in her adult life.  That's healthy, and did require a lot of discipline and time on all our parts when she was a child. 

But the fundies we follow don't believe in too much creativity because that might lead to other ways of thinking and wouldn't let their kids wear traditional bathing suits, so it's better for their sense of control to just condemn it all. 

Yes!

Not sure if I ever mentioned this but sports participation was the only thing that got me through school.  I was bullied a lot during my childhood and adolescence and going to practice, physical exercise, and games and meets was a huge escape for me plus helped raise my low self esteem.  Course my parents weren't sports fans and thought too much emphasis is put on it plus they grumbled about driving me to practice/pick up from practice and games I told them sports saved my life and my academic career as I would have either dropped out of school or committed suicide.

Edited January 25, 2023 by SPHASH

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, SPHASH said:

Yes!

Not sure if I ever mentioned this but sports participation was the only thing that got me through school.  I was bullied a lot and going to practice, physical exercise, and games and meets was a huge escape for me plus helped raise my low self esteem.  Course my parents weren't sports fans and thought too much emphasis is put on it.  I told them sports saved my life and my academic career as I would have either dropped out of school or committed suicide.

And now we see young adult fundies like Trace Bates who loves playing flag football  and I can pretty much guarantee he wishes he could have played football in high school. But nope. Not allowed. 

[SPHASH]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And now we see young adult fundies like Trace Bates who loves playing flag football  and I can pretty much guarantee he wishes he could have played football in high school. But nope. Not allowed. 

IIRC Gil Bates was a champion wrestler in high school and Michelle Duggar was a cheerleader.  But yet they denied those experiences to their own children, pisses me off to no end.

The thing with Steve is when he took Nate and Chris out of Little League they only had three kids at the time so too many kids wasn't an issue, it was his selfishness.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by SPHASH

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, SPHASH said:

IIRC Gil Bates was a champion wrestler in high school and Michelle Duggar was a cheerleader.  But yet they denied those experiences to their own children, pisses me off to no end.

The thing with Steve is when he took Nate and Chris out of Little League they only had three kids at the time so too many kids wasn't an issue, it was his selfishness.

 

At least the Kingerys (dad was a pro baseball player) let their 2 sons play baseball when they were teens. But of course I don’t remember the girls ever playing softball or baseball 🙄

[SPHASH]

7 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

At least the Kingerys (dad was a pro baseball player) let their 2 sons play baseball when they were teens. But of course I don’t remember the girls ever playing softball or baseball 🙄

When I was 10 I went out for softball for the first time.  I had to beg my parents to let me join the local team.  They thought sports weren't ladylike for girls and didn't want me to play.  They weren't fundie but the real reason was they didn't want to be bothered with practice and games.  Nevertheless I persisted and won.

Edited January 25, 2023 by SPHASH

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

When I was 10 I went out for softball for the first time.  I had to beg my parents to let me join the local team.  They thought sports weren't ladylike for girls and didn't want me to play.  They weren't fundie but the real reason was they didn't want to be bothered with practice and games.  Nevertheless I persisted and won.

My family is the polar opposite of the Maxwells. Both sides of my family are sporty. 3 of my 4 grandparents all played sports through out high school and were good. My parents also played sports in high school although my mom wasn’t very good. She was more into band. Many of my aunts, uncles, and cousins played at least one sport in high school. Most played multiple. My husband and I played lots of sports in school too. My family always asks what sports my kids play. My siblings’ kids all play sports and do very well. My kids just don’t like organized sports. They like things like video games and theater. My kids are the odd ones out unfortunately. It makes me feel bad for them that people expect them to play sports but they aren’t interested. 

[Caroline]

31 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My kids are the odd ones out unfortunately. It makes me feel bad for them that people expect them to play sports but they aren’t interested. 

I don't think they're odd.  They know what they like and what they don't like.  It doesn't mean they won't find a meaningful physical outlet at some point, even if it's just taking long walks in beautiful places. Walking is my preferred physical activity, and it keeps me grounded and anxiety-free, especially in good weather when I can walk in a forest or along a beach. 

I started high school in 1972. This was still pre-Title IX, and the only girls encouraged to play sports in my circle were the ones who were talented and showed athleticism. Our high school was huge and sports were very competitive, so only the best students could be on any teams.  I had never been encouraged to play sports (the era and a family that just wasn't into sports of any kind). My mother was also a single mom and there's no way she could have managed to get my siblings and me anyplace after school and on weekends.  She didn't even drive, and we didn't have a car. So, in my childhood, sports really were for kids more privileged than I was.  My mom didn't disparage sports and other activities like the fundies though.  She just reminded us of the reality of our economic circumstances. It just made me want to grow up and lead my own life giving any future children more than I had. 

I kind of wish I had been encouraged back then to try something though.  I always thought that tennis looked like fun, but that sport was only for the country club set when I was young. I never even learned to swim despite growing up on the coast because my mother was afraid of water. It is the reason we had our daughter start learning to swim in organized lessons by age 3.5. She ended up loving the water and joined a competitive team when she was ten.  So in one generation we went from a woman afraid of water to a competitive swimmer who loves the water and made lots of money as a lifeguard throughout high school and college.

[hoipolloi]

48 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Walking is my preferred physical activity, and it keeps me grounded and anxiety-free, especially in good weather when I can walk in a forest or along a beach. 

Same here. I donʻt like sports and never have -- especially competitive sports -- but walking is an integral part of my life.

I also wonder if large fundie families discourage older kids, especially the girls, from participating in youth activities because so many times they are sibling-parents who really are needed at home, as wrong as that is.

[SPHASH]

Also with my parents if they didn't like a certain hobby, pastime, or activity then their kids shouldn't like it either.  And they expected us kids to like the same things they did.  Parents fundie and nonfundie really expect their children to be clones of them and that is so wrong.  One of my brothers once said he doesn't care for golf but if one of his kids takes an interest in it he will take lessons right along with him so he can learn the sport better and have quality father- son time in the process.

I have some hope for any kids Sarah and Kory might have as Kory went to public school, played sports, and went to college.

[JermajestyDuggar]

My kids love video games and I have zero interest. At least my husband likes video games. I would enjoy watching baseball games if my boys wanted to play. I played softball for many years so I like watching softball and baseball. But my kids have no interest. My son enjoys theater. So at least I can enjoy watching his plays. 

[Jana814]

I wasn’t & still not into sports. I played soccer in 3rd grade & that was it. I think my parents were ok with the fact that neither my sister or I were sporty. My sister swam I think her sophomore year in high school but didn’t rejoin the team after. I did do chorus in high school mostly because it during school & it was an easy “A”. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Quote

When the boys were little, they played little league and Steve coaxed them to quit.

I don't think Stevehovah coaxed them.

I believe he quit for them and then guilted them into agreeing with what he'd done with his fake crocodile tears speech about idols and it hurt his heart to ask they quit.  Of course they agreed. They were small boys and Dad was crying.

I firmly believe Stevehovah had already told the coach the boys were off the team and the boys didn't know this when they gave into his emotional guilt trip blackmail. 

This would be classic Stevehovah manipulation.

[Howl]

4 hours ago, Caroline said:

I kind of wish I had been encouraged back then to try something though.  I always thought that tennis looked like fun, but that sport was only for the country club set when I was young.

I have one word for you: Pickleball

[theologygeek]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:38 PM, moreorlessnu said:

I'm thrilled that Mary and Sam look so happy, but.....I wish she had picked a different dress. The sneakers are cute, but the dress has too much of an "old rag" vibe to me.

She might not have the money to buy a new dress. Maybe she borrowed it.  I'm sure the sisters got a lot of clothes when they went to school-sweat clothes, shorts, pants-stuff they never wore before.  I doubt she has student loans.  She's probably putting herself through school too.  She had to ask for money to go on the mission trip.  Money is probably tight.  At least she's out of that house and finding her own way.  

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

 My kids are the odd ones out unfortunately. It makes me feel bad for them that people expect them to play sports but they aren’t interested. 

My grandson tried baseball, hated it.  Hated karate, hated football.  He's solid too and would pulverize anyone in his path for football, but he's not interested.  His father (my son) played baseball and hockey.  Be glad your kids don't like sports.  It was hard taking the kids to practice and games, especially as a single mother.  And hockey, that was awful.  You had to get the kids there at the crack of dawn when the rink was available.  

[SPHASH]

9 hours ago, theologygeek said:

My grandson tried baseball, hated it.  Hated karate, hated football.  He's solid too and would pulverize anyone in his path for football, but he's not interested.  His father (my son) played baseball and hockey.  Be glad your kids don't like sports.  It was hard taking the kids to practice and games, especially as a single mother.  And hockey, that was awful.  You had to get the kids there at the crack of dawn when the rink was available.  

That's the difference, your grandson had the opportunity to try sports, he didn't like it which is perfectly OK.  What's not OK is the Maxkids were denied any opportunity or forced to quit because Steve decided sports were the devil's creation.  Steve also made one of the kids switch musical instruments because they enjoyed it or was getting too good at it.

Edited January 26, 2023 by SPHASH