Jinjer 59: Cooking with Prepared Spice Mix

[AnywhereButHere]

8 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

That would not be a hard "g."  A hard g is guh like in gone, gander, goose, etc.  Jesus is pronounced with a regular j sound which would also be a soft g as in bilge.  It's interesting how the enthusiasm of the speaker can change the emphasis in saying the name.  

Yup, you're right. Oops - there goes any pronunciation cred I may once have had! Very hard J then, although a hard G jesus would sound pretty funny... 

[neuroticcat]

3 hours ago, noseybutt said:

She looks good.

She uses future tense when talking about Josh changing, indicating that she doesn’t think he has changed yet. 
 

Yes. She says something like “I hope he comes to know Christ” which in itself is a pretty big statement. 
 

I have been happy all day because of this. I know MacArthur is oppressive and his church is cult like in its own way. However. The amount of internal strength required for anyone to:

1. Leave an enmeshed & abusive family

2. Speak out publicly against that family - which goes against every family-image rule you were raised in - and name specific wrongs. 

3. Know you will be ostracized/scapegoated/estranged/excluded from old community.

is HUGE for anyone. To do this in the public eye—when your family was famous for being “good” and you were indoctrinated that rebelling against your parents was damning—takes guts. That is level-up deconstruction even if MacArthur is only a baby step out. 

I was also impressed when Jill did it, though much was conjecture since she spoke less publicly on it. 
 

They have the tools. I imagine it will be painful to reckon with: I left one cult to join another - but this also seems a pretty normal trajectory for ppl leaving high control. 
 

I know Jeremy appears to be all-in Master’s Seminary, but he has more of a “before” life - unless he was in cult-like environment no one knows about. It could be that if he finds himself on the outs or the receiving end of MacArthur church’s culture of abuse, he will be ready to leave. I hope so.

This also gives me some small hope for Jessa and her family. They seem close to the Duggars still but if Ben was a catalyst for Jinger, perhaps their family is freer now too since they are in a house of their own and cut the strings.

I wonder if the deconstructing sibs will be seen to be connecting/visiting with each other more in the future. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by neuroticcat

[JermajestyDuggar]

So are the Duggars under the impression that Josh isn’t a Christian? Because he is. And that’s just their way of excusing away what he did. Christians can be rapists, murderers, and child molesters. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Well I'm confused what Jesus is supposed to sound like if not how jinger pronounced it. I didn't notice it sounding odd when I watched. I am now paranoid.

Is this like "nuk-lee ar" vs "nuke u lar" which was a huge kerfuffle during Clinton years as the non southern news ppl claimed the southerners didn't know what they were talking about because they were "mispronouncing" the word.

I was impressed at her condemnation of Josh. Surprised it was very straight forward and not some weird deflection with Christian gobbledygook quotes or something.

I was also impressed that she is able to explain how afraid she was during her duggar years. Afraid of doing the wrong thing, saying the wrong thing etc.

She has some insight now that you can analyze these things and make your own determination rather than 100% trust some other person's interpretation.

That's a good thing to realize and I know adults who haven't got a handle on that concept yet.

Maybe she is happy in her current cult

 Maybe she will continue thinking things over

Who knows. But at least she got thar far.

 

And whoever said they think Jinger is the one who said no photos of the girls. I tend to agree. I don't think Jeremy would get it. To him self promotion is probably wholly positive. 

 

I also continue to think they have a reserve of $. They enjoy their endorsements and what not obviously but I think that's bonus money to them. Like Carlin and Evan they seem to have plenty of money to do whatever they want. ...like have a 2nd set of custom bookshelves made!

[seraaa]

Jinger talking about her and Jeremy's commitment to being the same in every setting? I feel we learned about her upbringing even though she did not talk about her parents directly.

She has gone from not being able to question anything to being, I guess, an active participant in the kind of life she wants.

She's spoken before about her anxiety, but I think it's important that she linked it to the insecurity she felt as a Christian. She realises now that your religion shouldn't be a source of anguish. To feel confident enough to say that publicly is huge and speaks to how much she must have processed about her childhood

Edited January 19, 2023 by seraaa

[Idlewild]

Jinger has several paid endorsements- coffee, meat and a few other things. She will have been paid for the book and the interview with People. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t secure a pay off from JB like Jill and Derick. Given that she has a large following, she probably makes very good money.

I don’t really see Jeremy becoming disenchanted with MacArthur unless someone else offers him a lucrative deal to do something else. I think he fancies himself as a church leader and he enjoys all the perks of fame. 

[postscript]

10 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Jinger has several paid endorsements- coffee, meat and a few other things. She will have been paid for the book and the interview with People. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t secure a pay off from JB like Jill and Derick. Given that she has a large following, she probably makes very good money.

 

I was just thinking the same thing. If DerIck got Jim Bob to make a lump sum payoff, I expect Jeremy asked for and received the same, and that the money has been well invested. Jeremy likes his creature comforts, but I think he is pretty savvy about money. 

She will probably have gotten a decent advance for the book, on par with advances for other celebrity memoirs. It’s the closest we’re going to get to a tell-all in the immediate future. 

[AprilQuilt]

4 hours ago, AnywhereButHere said:

W=hen my sister-in-law's father-in-law died we went to the funeral. One of the officiants (Deacon maybe - I'm not too sure of the hierarchy in the Catholic church...) mentioned Jesus quite a bit during the service and pronounced it "Gee-SUS" every time. Very hard G and a ton of emphasis on the SUS, all with accompanying hand movements. Thank Gee-SUS we were sitting in the back, because son and I had the giggles each time he said it!

When I try to imagine how 'Jesus' is said with emphasis on the second syllable, all I can think of is how Mary might yell his name up the stairs when his dinner's on the table getting cold.

[livinginthelight]

Like others, I was pleasantly surprised by the video. Jinger sounds happy and confident. I love that she repeatedly emphasized the importance of raising her daughters around other people from a diversity of backgrounds and cultures.

[marmalade]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So are the Duggars under the impression that Josh isn’t a Christian? Because he is. And that’s just their way of excusing away what he did. Christians can be rapists, murderers, and child molesters. 

Is he really Christian or just playing the part? I don't buy that he's a True Believer. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Is he really Christian or just playing the part? I don't buy that he's a True Believer. 

I don’t really do the no true Scotsman type thing. If he says he’s a Christian, I believe him. But I also don’t believe there’s any sort of link between being a Christian and being a good person. There are good and bad Christians just like there are good and bad atheists. 

[Cam]

7 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I agree with this but also I don’t think the Duggar men have much imagination and they don’t value the imaginations and intellect of women.

The women are trained to value and revere the intellect of their husband.

I think female fundies are trained to cater to the sexual needs of their spouse. I don’t equate male fundies with having intellect. All they seem capable of is brainwashing, grifting, concealing sins, etc. If anything, the wives are trained to pretend their husbands have intellect. 

[Coconut Flan]

44 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t really do the no true Scotsman type thing. If he says he’s a Christian, I believe him. But I also don’t believe there’s any sort of link between being a Christian and being a good person. There are good and bad Christians just like there are good and bad atheists. 

I would say Josh may have prayed the sinner's prayer and by their definition be a Christian, but he has lapsed, backslidden, fallen from grace (choose the phrase from various denominations) and must meet a call to true repentance to be back in the good graces of most mainline denominations.  This kind of thing is why I can't be a Baptist or any denomination where it's a once and done pray their rote prayer and you're "saved."  People are fallible.  Some more than others.  The denomination needs a plan for a renewed call to repentance.  

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t really do the no true Scotsman type thing. If he says he’s a Christian, I believe him. But I also don’t believe there’s any sort of link between being a Christian and being a good person. There are good and bad Christians just like there are good and bad atheists. 

I'm just pointing out that Smuggar has a rocky relationship with the Truth. I don't believe a word he says; there's precedent here. 

[purple_summer]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t really do the no true Scotsman type thing. If he says he’s a Christian, I believe him. But I also don’t believe there’s any sort of link between being a Christian and being a good person. There are good and bad Christians just like there are good and bad atheists. 

I think it’s more along the lines of the Bible saying you’ll know someone by their “fruit” and Josh’s is beyond rotten. There are other verses that would work here but I’m too tired to get the specifics. 
 

I don’t expect Jinger or Jill to fully denounce Michelle. Speaking from personal experience, I know that my mom allowed me to be in situations where I was subject to spiritual/emotional abuse, but she was also in those situations herself. She was victimized by the same teachings and led to believe she was doing what was best for me. I don’t excuse her past mistakes, but I forgive her. For what it’s worth, my mother does have quite a bit of remorse. 
 

People are complicated. 

 

 

[neuroticcat]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t really do the no true Scotsman type thing. If he says he’s a Christian, I believe him. But I also don’t believe there’s any sort of link between being a Christian and being a good person. There are good and bad Christians just like there are good and bad atheists. 

I sort of took her statement to indicate that despite the religious teachings they all grew up with, she felt they didn’t really “know Christ.”

Given what we know of Gothard’s teaching and what she’s said about her religious anxiety, it sounds like they all operated under a kind of superstitious prosperity teaching. For me it’s reframed the testimony video she did with Ben. I think that was when she heard what most Christian’s would call “the gospel”, i.e. Jesus loves you (as opposed to Gothard’s lists of rules for how to not make God angry) and had a conversion experience. MacArthur’s brand if rigid doctrine would reinforce this too. 
 

In the video she even talks about returning to Big Sandy and feeling so sad for the ppl there. When Jinger is saying they’re cult like I think she’s indicating they aren’t actually Christians. - not b/c they behave badly but b/c they reach something outside accepted Christian teaching. 

I think it’s a little different than a no true Scotsman argument since I imagine she’s say it about a number of her siblings. 

[Cam]

I was raised Catholic. In my early 20s I became a “born again” Christian at which point I was taught that prayers should go directly to Jesus, not to saints, not to Virgin Mary, and that I didn’t need a priest to confess my sins or go through a priest to get to God or Jesus. I’d never liked or understood the priest thing anyway, so fine by me. I also was taught that Christians “pray” as opposed to Catholics who “say prayers”, like the rote Our Father and Hail Marys. (I’m now agnostic).

So I think I understand where Jinj is coming from, where she feels she now has a relationship with JeSUS whereas growing up she thought she was just supposed to follow a lot of rules and be in fear of breaking them. I was the born again Christian for decades before evolving away from man made religion. Jinj may very well stay contented with McCartherism the rest of her life. But I will give her credit for loosening JBs stranglehold on her. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Cam

[Lurker]

I wonder if Jinger has had enough counseling or therapy to define and separate out her anxiety.   She has said her childhhod brand of religion gave her anxiety, but what about living with Josh?   We know he molested her and she was affected by it.    Jinger had to live in the house with him, doing his dirty  laundry, knowing as the eldest son he had  the privilege and agency denied to her.

By marrying Jeremy and moving far away from TTH, she probably was able to drop her guard and actually relax for the first time in her life.  No Josh, no sister mom chores and no teaching of Gothard as interpreted by Jim Bob.

No wonder she considers her self free.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Lurker

[closetcagebaby]

I have to say I really don’t mind that Jinger has chosen to monetize her public persona, especially given that she has decided to keep her kids out of it. Her image was monetized without her consent for basically her entire life and she wasn’t given the tools or education to make a career for herself. If she feels like she’s in control of it now, well, I’m okay with her securing the People magazine bag. 

[SassyPants]

11 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

I have to say I really don’t mind that Jinger has chosen to monetize her public persona, especially given that she has decided to keep her kids out of it. Her image was monetized without her consent for basically her entire life and she wasn’t given the tools or education to make a career for herself. If she feels like she’s in control of it now, well, I’m okay with her securing the People magazine bag. 

The only problem I have with that is she is monetizing her personal life because she doesn’t have any other way to make a living. She lacks choice and to sell one’s private moments and thoughts just seems so exploitative. She isn’t playing a role or using her expertise to make make money, she’s selling her private life experiences and thoughts. It’s just gross, particularly because she, at least at this point, can not make significant money in any other way. JB and Michelle Duggar are among the worst parents, ever.

[postscript]

18 hours ago, marmalade said:

Is he really Christian or just playing the part? I don't buy that he's a True Believer. 

I’m sure Josh still self-identifies as Christian, and probably still practices his faith. But I doubt it’s more than skin-deep. If he were to really engage in self-reflection (something I doubt he’s capable of), I suspect he would have a hard time articulating whether or not he really believes. 

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, postscript said:

I’m sure Josh still self-identifies as Christian, and probably still practices his faith. But I doubt it’s more than skin-deep. If he were to really engage in self-reflection (something I doubt he’s capable of), I suspect he would have a hard time articulating whether or not he really believes. 

Without intense therapy and a solid, outside of the cult, support system, I doubt any of the G-2 Duggars who are currently still in the fold have the ability to truly self reflect and make their own rational decisions. Yes, it is pathetic that a nearing 35 YO Josh seemingly has no skills to self reflect, control his impulses, or make his own, sensible and law abiding decisions, but apparently, he just doesn’t. Until these people wake up and accept that what JB and Gothard were endorsing was just controlling, misogynistic crap, they are all going to continue to have a hard time adjusting to life in the mainstream.

[JermajestyDuggar]

49 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

The only problem I have with that is she is monetizing her personal life because she doesn’t have any other way to make a living. She lacks choice and to sell one’s private moments and thoughts just seems so exploitative. She isn’t playing a role or using her expertise to make make money, she’s selling her private life experiences and thoughts. It’s just gross, particularly because she, at least at this point, can not make significant money in any other way. JB and Michelle Duggar are among the worst parents, ever.

It makes me wonder where this whole family would be if they never got a show on TLC. So many of them would be so screwed. And very poor. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

 Jinger, Jessa, and maybe Jill almost certainly wouldn't be in the marriages they are. Jeremy wouldn't have put up with JB's nonsense for a non-famous Jinger of that I am certain.. They would be very poor indeed. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Pecansforeveryone
Add a thought

[patsymae]

On 1/18/2023 at 11:51 PM, Travelfan said:

I find this very personally interesting. I came from a MacArthur type of background and I struggled for years with faith and fear. I finally left Christianity altogether and I feel very free now, so much so that I got a tattoo with the words be free in it. I think freedom is perspective. If you felt trapped/fearful in the situation or belief you were in and now you’ve gotten out of that you feel free. I can completely understand how she feels very free now, even though she is now in the exact same thing I felt trapped in. I always tell my Christian friends I’m happy for them, life is tough and whatever you personally find that gives you a feeling of hope/safety/purpose/freedom that is great!  If Jinger feels that in MacArthurs church I’m glad. I found it in atheism. She seems to be open to different people/ideas and not afraid for her girls to get outside perspectives and that is wonderful. She was raised in a very closed off environment, where everyone outside was “bad”. Her girls have a much better chance at thinking for themselves, plus Jinger herself now values questioning and thinking and will hopefully pass that on. Maybe she will eventually question some of what she is in now, maybe she will be happy to stay there.  Atheism can be a tough life and it’s not for everyone. I wish her peace!

I guess it's like getting out of prison and having to work double shifts at Amazon to pay rent in your SRO.