Raising Olives on Public Schools

[longskirts]

Today she's complaining that they don't teach Christianity.

It's always fun when she claims that she doesn't look down on families who send kids to public schools. It's a little hard to believe that.

[debrand]

We homeschool but I use secular textbooks. For world history we are using Holt. That is the same textbook that is used in many public schools. The book does indeed cover Christianity and Islam and Hinduism......

[lilah]

Stupid separation of church and state preventing christian hegemony...

[Deleted12]

To which I ask "Do you really want the public schools teaching your children about faith?"

God forbid they should get a teacher who was Catholic, or Mormon, or 7th Day Adventist. x(

[clibbyjo]

LOL, my 9 year old is reading "Story of the World" (many Christian homeschoolers use this for beginning history) and he just told me the chapter he read today was "the classic pushing the baby in the basket down the Nile". I skipped that chapter with my older kids, but I have mellowed in my old age and I am trying to practice what I preach. I don't have a problem with the telling of the stories, just so they aren't presented as FACT. My older kids are reading "History of Mankind" and that even has some Bible stories but presented in a context they are not fact.

[ophelia]

Isn't there any religious education in the USA? Here in Germany we have protestant and catholic (and very often mixed) education as a subject at school. I'm studying to become a teacher of that subject.

[Terrie]

Isn't there any religious education in the USA? Here in Germany we have protestant and catholic (and very often mixed) education as a subject at school. I'm studying to become a teacher of that subject.

Not in public schools. The most you should have is world religions or the Bible as literature.

[alsio]

Yeah, I´m german too. We had religion as a subject, mostly christianity( no division between catholic and protestant pupils) with some history of religion and world religions thrown in.

It was a mostly pretty nice, not so much " This is the Truth " but more here are the stories what can we learn from them, compare and contrast etc.

Now you have the choice of either religion or an ethics class.

But I bet that would give her even more vapors than no religious education :)

[GenerationCedarchip]

Not in public schools. The most you should have is world religions or the Bible as literature.

Or if fundies take over the school board, you can have religious education (pretty mainstream stuff in order to get the non-fundie parents to go along with it) while the 10 kids whose parents object get sent to the gym to sit in the bleachers.

This was in the 90s, btw. Homeschooling was on the rise, but still not as common as now, and some in the reformed movement were still concentrating on taking over institutions like local school boards rather than separating from them by pulling kids out of schools. Nowadays, almost all the kids in my old church are homeschooled.

[FemaleScientist]

Religions are taught in the context of a way of culture. In world history you learn about them and how they were established, but it's all historical... nothing faith-based is presented as fact, and you are often taught religions other than Christianity. The big deal that some parents have about public schools here is that they teach evolution and not intelligent design/creationism in Biology.

I've heard, and I may be incorrect, that it's illegal for a teacher in public school to preach their own religious beliefs to students and present the bible as fact. Makes sense since not every student in a public school is a Christian.

I know when my little brother was in Lutheran private school, he was taught the bible as fact and learned evolution is invalid.

[Eclipse]

I don't know much about her but whose version of Christianity would she liked them to teach? Teach about Jesus reaching out to the poor and hanging with the sinners? Teach about social justice? Teach about Jesus embracing everyone? Cause those topics don't seem to be well received in Fundie circles.

[Michiru]

I think it is just awfull that they teach religion in school germany. I think in a state that has a diversion of faith and state, there should be no such thing. But it will not change soon, so I am studying to become an ethics teacher- anyone who is not protestant or catholic has to go there from grade 7 on. :D

[doggie]

can anyone imagine what would happen if the government decided to teach Christianity in school? It could work in small towns where people used to all think alike. But now days? it would be a horrible fight on what should and should not be taught what brand should be taught. the kids would end up really screwed up. The people that want this really only think their brand is right and that's what should be taught.

[emmiedahl]

I have plenty of complaints about our local public school, and one of the major ones is the presence of Christianity. I don't mind having Christians in the building, but it really seems to infuse everything. Maybe Raising Olives and I should trade school districts.

[O Latin]

See, I learned plenty about Christianity in public school. In Western Civ we learned a lot about the origins and basic beliefs of Christianity because that's so important in understanding the history of Western Civilization. I had a friend who refused to take the class because she'd heard that it was "basically just a class about Christianity." I tried to explain to her that it was all for context and the class would have made no sense if you didn't have just a basic understanding of what Christians believe(d). I don't remember whether she ever took the class or not.

Then in American history we learned all about the Puritans and the First and Second Great Awakenings. Sometimes in English class we would learn about whatever religious beliefs were popular during the time of the authors we were studying. By the time I graduated, I'd read "Sinners in the Hands of and Angry God" so many times I practically had it memorized.

As others have said, none of this was presented as fact, except for the parts about actual historical figures (i.e. "St. Augustine wrote about blah, blah, blah."). It was mostly "this is what people believed at this time/place." But even if I had started high school knowing absolutely nothing whatsoever about Christianity, I would have left with a pretty good understanding of it.

[ems]

Today she's complaining that they don't teach Christianity.

It's always fun when she claims that she doesn't look down on families who send kids to public schools. It's a little hard to believe that.

Uh, yeah. That's what Christian churches are for.

Ahhhh, these people...

[lilwriter85]

I have encountered people like her before. My neighbor's son has complained several times about Christianity and the Bible not being taught in public schools. Once during a conversation, I pointed out that not all students in the U.S. are Christian and he didn't know how to respond to that.

Teaching Christianity in public schools would never go off smoothly, parents from different denominations/sects would be debating what should be taught and what shouldn't be taught.

[ems]

See, I learned plenty about Christianity in public school. In Western Civ we learned a lot about the origins and basic beliefs of Christianity because that's so important in understanding the history of Western Civilization. I had a friend who refused to take the class because she'd heard that it was "basically just a class about Christianity." I tried to explain to her that it was all for context and the class would have made no sense if you didn't have just a basic understanding of what Christians believe(d). I don't remember whether she ever took the class or not.

Then in American history we learned all about the Puritans and the First and Second Great Awakenings. Sometimes in English class we would learn about whatever religious beliefs were popular during the time of the authors we were studying. By the time I graduated, I'd read "Sinners in the Hands of and Angry God" so many times I practically had it memorized.

As others have said, none of this was presented as fact, except for the parts about actual historical figures (i.e. "St. Augustine wrote about blah, blah, blah."). It was mostly "this is what people believed at this time/place." But even if I had started high school knowing absolutely nothing whatsoever about Christianity, I would have left with a pretty good understanding of it.

Yeah, this.

[emmiedahl]

In my children's schools, evolution cannot be touched without "balance", which means equal time given to creationism. Creationism is not a basic tenet of science, so why???? And if we are going to be all fair, maybe the kids should learn how Hindu texts hold that the world exists.

There is nothing about sex or contraception or homosexuality in the middle school health classes. Really, I think those are important facets of adolescent health. The Muslims don't make up a large enough group in my area to demand curriculum changes, so there is only one religious group to blame for that one.

Every morning, children in Washington say the Pledge of Allegiance along with a certain controversial phrase that was added less than 100 years ago to set us apart from our 'evil, Godless' enemies.

Not to mention, that 95% of the kids and a higher ratio of the teachers are Christian in my area. So, it comes up. I could go on and on and on. Not that I want all of this stopped, but saying the public schools are Godless is a stretch.

[lilwriter85]

See, I learned plenty about Christianity in public school. In Western Civ we learned a lot about the origins and basic beliefs of Christianity because that's so important in understanding the history of Western Civilization. I had a friend who refused to take the class because she'd heard that it was "basically just a class about Christianity." I tried to explain to her that it was all for context and the class would have made no sense if you didn't have just a basic understanding of what Christians believe(d). I don't remember whether she ever took the class or not.

Then in American history we learned all about the Puritans and the First and Second Great Awakenings. Sometimes in English class we would learn about whatever religious beliefs were popular during the time of the authors we were studying. By the time I graduated, I'd read "Sinners in the Hands of and Angry God" so many times I practically had it memorized.

As others have said, none of this was presented as fact, except for the parts about actual historical figures (i.e. "St. Augustine wrote about blah, blah, blah."). It was mostly "this is what people believed at this time/place." But even if I had started high school knowing absolutely nothing whatsoever about Christianity, I would have left with a pretty good understanding of it.

That is how it was for me. I agree with religion being taught in historical context.

[longskirts]

Emmiedahl--I thought teaching creationism has been ruled unconstitutional? Has anyone tried bringing legal challenges against your district about that?

[Bella99]

One of the big problems I have with these people who comment on public schools is so many who do haven't set foot in one in over 10 years. An acquaintance recently mentioned concern over gangs as a reason to put their kindergartener in private school. Somehow, I don't think that is a real big problem with the 5 yo set. As the kids get older I can understand some of their concerns, but at least check out the public schools before you make any judgements.

Emmiedahl, I was hoping other parts of the country were a little different. Here in Texas the state school board has been packed with fundies who have managed to screw up the science and history curriculums.

[doggie]

I have encountered people like her before. My neighbor's son has complained several times about Christianity and the Bible not being taught in public schools. Once during a conversation, I pointed out that not all students in the U.S. are Christian and he didn't know how to respond to that.

Teaching Christianity in public schools would never go off smoothly, parents from different denominations/sects would be debating what should be taught and what shouldn't be taught.

they would fight even physically over it. ti would be a disaster. but none can see it.

[alphaeta08]

See, I learned plenty about Christianity in public school. In Western Civ we learned a lot about the origins and basic beliefs of Christianity because that's so important in understanding the history of Western Civilization. I had a friend who refused to take the class because she'd heard that it was "basically just a class about Christianity." I tried to explain to her that it was all for context and the class would have made no sense if you didn't have just a basic understanding of what Christians believe(d). I don't remember whether she ever took the class or not.

Then in American history we learned all about the Puritans and the First and Second Great Awakenings. Sometimes in English class we would learn about whatever religious beliefs were popular during the time of the authors we were studying. By the time I graduated, I'd read "Sinners in the Hands of and Angry God" so many times I practically had it memorized.

As others have said, none of this was presented as fact, except for the parts about actual historical figures (i.e. "St. Augustine wrote about blah, blah, blah."). It was mostly "this is what people believed at this time/place." But even if I had started high school knowing absolutely nothing whatsoever about Christianity, I would have left with a pretty good understanding of it.

Me too, plus a bit of inappropriate endorsement of Christianity thrown in. Anyone who complained about it would've been a biiig Troublemaker with a capital "T." But Christians are obviously persecuted in this country, so I guess they just have to keep fighting the good fight. :roll:

[manatees]

I'm in the UK where Christianity is the official state religion, but my religious education (and I went to a secular public school - but the UK does also have religious public schools, but for all main religions and not just Christianity) sounds pretty similar to the ones mentioned previously. My teachers were mostly atheists, all religions were covered, and we had a post-Ramadan feast (lots of Muslims at my school). At primary schools in the UK (ages 5-11) there is hymn singing and prayers at morning assembly, and nativity plays at Christmas but it's viewed as being cultural rather than indoctrinational, and parents are able to have their children not participate - but very few do.