Josh and Anna 56: AMA and Stuck in Duggarville?

[viii]

Which is why it's probably untrue. I could have made that up and I live in Bumfuck, Canada. 

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, postscript said:

WOACB claims she heard from someone else visiting an inmate at the same time who said Josh and Anna barely interacted, the oldest kids wanted nothing to do with him, and he held Madyson on his lap for most of the visit.

It's very possible that a guard let this go because Madyson is a baby and any given staff won't have memorized the rap sheet of anybody, but this feels...not true. The BOP has pretty clear rules (like in Arrested Development) on physical contact and I don't see any exception for children in their documentation.

But, again, very possible that whoever was on staffing that day allowed it. Still, a small point against WOACB (but not the biggest point against her by far). 

[xenobia]

I think it's possible. Older kids not interested in talking to Josh, he and Anna not on the best of terms - all very likely. And there's a photo of them outside the prison. 

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, xenobia said:

I think it's possible. Older kids not interested in talking to Josh, he and Anna not on the best of terms - all very likely. And there's a photo of them outside the prison. 

Perhaps parts of the story are true and others embellished? Or she saw the photo and fabricated what happened? I am really not that familiar with her. 

[noseybutt]

If Anna doesn’t think he’s guilty then the kids might be angry and even angry at daddy but they will not be coached to forgive him because nothing to forgive.

It’s a head trip.

[FiveAcres]

19 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Perhaps parts of the story are true and others embellished? Or she saw the photo and fabricated what happened? I am really not that familiar with her. 

I've seen speculation that she follows Reddit groups and other areas and bases a lot of her commentary on plausible idle speculation on these groups. 

I was just reviewing the visitation guide for Seagoville. If I am reading it correctly, there is a limit of five visitors per inmate. I don't know if a babe in arms is exempt from the count.

https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/sea/SEA_visit_hours.pdf

I found the following spoilered item interesting: would Josh fall under the Walsh Act Requirement?

 

Spoiler

 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

12 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I've seen speculation that she follows Reddit groups and other areas and bases a lot of her commentary on plausible idle speculation on these groups. 

I was just reviewing the visitation guide for Seagoville. If I am reading it correctly, there is a limit of five visitors per inmate. I don't know if a babe in arms is exempt from the count.

https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/sea/SEA_visit_hours.pdf

I found the following spoilered item interesting: would Josh fall under the Walsh Act Requirement?

 

  Hide contents

 

According to WOACB, kids 5 and under don't count towards the 5 visitors at a time rule.  Assuming this is true, Anna must have at least 3 five or under? Four older kids plus Anna would equal the five visitors.

As for the baby in the lap, as long as he's closely monitored during the visit I can imagine it being allowed. Whether it should be or not is another issue. 

[Idlewild]

I don’t know if any of it was true or not, but I think you cannot interpret children’s feelings from how one person perceives their behaviour. It has to be very confusing and weird visiting your dad under these conditions, so the children may have seemed withdrawn or reserved. The older ones probably also realised they were being watched.

The whole situation is a mess, and I feel for those kids- the bottom of their world has dropped out and everything they do as a family will be overshadowed by it. If Anna continues to believe in Josh’s innocence and that he’ll be home in a couple of months, that’s added tension for them. Josh doesn’t seem to accept responsibility for any of his crimes, so I doubt he’ll accept responsibility for the effect on his children.

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

I don’t know if any of it was true or not, but I think you cannot interpret children’s feelings from how one person perceives their behaviour. It has to be very confusing and weird visiting your dad under these conditions, so the children may have seemed withdrawn or reserved. The older ones probably also realised they were being watched.

The whole situation is a mess, and I feel for those kids- the bottom of their world has dropped out and everything they do as a family will be overshadowed by it. If Anna continues to believe in Josh’s innocence and that he’ll be home in a couple of months, that’s added tension for them. Josh doesn’t seem to accept responsibility for any of his crimes, so I doubt he’ll accept responsibility for the effect on his children.

Yeah, what a horrible situation for the kids to be in, especially the oldest ones who grasp more of the reality of the situation yet still no doubt have many unanswered questions. 

[Four is Enough]

Odd, when my son was in prison, we could carry nothing into the visiting room with us. Cell phone? Purse? Locked up in the trunk of the car in the parking garage. Jacket? No. How did that person happen to have a phone with which to take photos?

[Howl]

A few questions. 

Does Josh share a cell with one or more inmates?  

How much counseling/rehab do the inmates get?

Twelve years is a long damn time and prison will change Josh, no question.  It's really his first exposure to the outside world, in a sense, although he did spend quite awhile in jail.  Which way he'll change is the question.  He has zip for critical thinking skills; he could be influenced in any number of ways.  

 

 

 

[xenobia]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

Odd, when my son was in prison, we could carry nothing into the visiting room with us. Cell phone? Purse? Locked up in the trunk of the car in the parking garage. Jacket? No. How did that person happen to have a phone with which to take photos?

I can answer that one. The photos were taken just outside the prison building (not inside), so the person who took them could have access to a cell phone camera. 

[SassyPants]

18 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

According to WOACB, kids 5 and under don't count towards the 5 visitors at a time rule.  Assuming this is true, Anna must have at least 3 five or under? Four older kids plus Anna would equal the five visitors.

As for the baby in the lap, as long as he's closely monitored during the visit I can imagine it being allowed. Whether it should be or not is another issue. 

Aren’t the youngest 3 kids: 5 YO, 3 YO and 1 YO? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hope the older kids eventually refuse to go for visits. Most 16 year old girls wouldn’t want to spend their weekend driving hours in the car in order to see your piece of shit dad in prison. I wouldn’t be surprised as the kids get older and the limits on visitors are enforced due to age, the older ones will say, “I’ll let the younger ones go this time and I’ll stay home.” 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

6 hours ago, Howl said:

A few questions. 

Does Josh share a cell with one or more inmates?  

How much counseling/rehab do the inmates get?

Twelve years is a long damn time and prison will change Josh, no question.  It's really his first exposure to the outside world, in a sense, although he did spend quite awhile in jail.  Which way he'll change is the question.  He has zip for critical thinking skills; he could be influenced in any number of ways.  

 

Josh shares a room with four other inmates. or at least he did when he first arrived. In this prison, inmates aren't housed in cells.

My understanding is that counseling is offered, but accepting it doesn't take any time off his sentence and Josh is still proclaiming his innocence, so I don't see him taking advantage of anything.  At least not as things stand now.

He probably won't serve the full sentence. Projected release date is August 2032 so he's already almost down to 9.5 years. Which is still a long time. I personally don't think he's redeemable and he'll come out the same or worse. He's a truly horrible person.

 

[Dandruff]

10 hours ago, Cam said:

Yeah, what a horrible situation for the kids to be in, especially the oldest ones who grasp more of the reality of the situation yet still no doubt have many unanswered questions. 

I figure the older kids may have some memory of the abrupt end of Josh's supposedly important job in DC, moving back to Arkansas without a friendly film crew in tow, outright exclusion of Josh and largely them in "Counting On", and Josh's absence/stint in Jesus Jail.  Even if Anna is telling them tall tales, I imagine they're still spending a fair amount of time with Josh's siblings and in-laws and picking up clues from what is and isn't said by them.  I suspect the kids have ongoing conflicting thoughts.  Visiting Josh in prison, IMO, would tend to amplify those thoughts.

Those poor kids.  What's going to happen when the older ones reach marriageable age?

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I personally don't think he's redeemable and he'll come out the same or worse. He's a truly horrible person.

 

I completely agree. I am entirely convinced if he doesn’t get re-arrested while he’s on his 20 years of parole it will only be because he’s gotten better at hiding. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I figure the older kids may have some memory of the abrupt end of Josh's supposedly important job in DC, moving back to Arkansas without a friendly film crew in tow, outright exclusion of Josh and largely them in "Counting On", and Josh's absence/stint in Jesus Jail.  Even if Anna is telling them tall tales, I imagine they're still spending a fair amount of time with Josh's siblings and in-laws and picking up clues from what is and isn't said by them.  I suspect the kids have ongoing conflicting thoughts.  Visiting Josh in prison, IMO, would tend to amplify those thoughts.

Kids know. I know they're more sheltered than most and that Anna is telling them Josh is doing time for Caleb's sins, but actually seeing him in prison will surely lead the oldest two or three to understand that dad is in prison for doing bad things. And if they aren't fully aware of what those bad things were, they'll find out on their own or from others before long. If it's true (and I'm taking several grains of salt here because it comes from a supposed WOACB source) that the oldest kids didn't engage with him, they're clearly pissed. And frankly, Anna's credibility with her kids is in jeopardy if she isn't honest with them. 

[Jrodseyeliner]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I hope the older kids eventually refuse to go for visits. Most 16 year old girls wouldn’t want to spend their weekend driving hours in the car in order to see your piece of shit dad in prison. I wouldn’t be surprised as the kids get older and the limits on visitors are enforced due to age, the older ones will say, “I’ll let the younger ones go this time and I’ll stay home.” 

I would like this to happen as well, but those kids  don’t have any choices. They have to go and help mama… they have to keep sweet and smile. You can only hope that some part of their brain is going, why is Daddy in jail? No other daddy’s in our family are in prison? This doesn’t make sense?  

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

I would like this to happen as well, but those kids  don’t have any choices. They have to go and help mama… they have to keep sweet and smile. You can only hope that some part of their brain is going, why is Daddy in jail? No other daddy’s in our family are in prison? This doesn’t make sense?  

But if there is a limit, they can’t go every single time. 

[AussieKrissy]

The crazy ball lady was also saying some tall guy visited Josh and they kissed on the lips..

[Smee]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:46 AM, Dandruff said:

 

Those poor kids.  What's going to happen when the older ones reach marriageable age?

Hopefully, they’ll get the fuck out of fundie land and be taken in by a sympathetic heathen who doesn’t define them by their father’s crimes and encourages them towards secular counselling. And then they’ll cut off both their parents for the sake of their own mental health. Sadly I doubt all will make it out, but I really really hope some do. Other fundies aren’t going to let those kids forget the “sins of the father” and will expect it to become part of their testimony.

[Coconut Flan]

Government response to Josh and the appeal:

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/government-submits-new-citation-refuting-duggar-claim-in-appeal/

[xenobia]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Government response to Josh and the appeal:

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/government-submits-new-citation-refuting-duggar-claim-in-appeal/

This link is blocked in Europe. Could someone give us a short summary?

[purple_summer]

5 hours ago, xenobia said:

This link is blocked in Europe. Could someone give us a short summary?

Spoiler

FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. (KNWA/KFTA) — Briefing has concluded before oral arguments will be heard in Joshua Duggar’s appeal of his conviction on child pornography charges, but the government filed notice of a recent court ruling that it says demonstrates “additional authority” in this case.

Duggar, 34, a former reality TV personality, was convicted on a pair of child pornography charges in 2021 in federal court in Fayetteville and was later sentenced to 151 months in prison followed by a supervised release term of 20 years. The defense has maintained Duggar’s innocence and filed a federal appeal shortly after sentencing.

Federal appeals court schedules Josh Duggar oral arguments

On January 24, the prosecution filed a Citation of Supplemental Authority regarding a recent case, U.S. vs. Treanton, that it said “bears on defendant-appellant Joshua Duggar’s contention that he was in custody during the search of his used-car lot.” In its October 3 appeal brief, one of the defense’s key points was that the district court “erred by denying Duggar’s motion to suppress statements after a federal agent physically stopped him from contacting his attorney and subsequently interrogated him outside the presence of his counsel.”

The government’s latest submission noted that in a January 18 ruling, “a panel of this Court rejected a similar contention arising under significantly more restrictive circumstances than those at issue in Duggar’s case.” It noted that the panel determined that the suspect in that case was not in custody “because ‘a reasonable person in Treanton’s position would have believed that he was free to terminate the interview if he wished.'”

The prosecution made comparable statements in a November 22, 2022 response to the defense’s appeal brief, as it stated that “Duggar’s Fifth Amendment rights are not implicated here because he was not in custody during his conversation with investigators.” The panel noted that agents in Treanton’s case repeatedly told him that he was not under arrest and was free to leave.

Josh Duggar defense files appeal

A judge in that case wrote separately to note the importance of “adhering to the same six factors that this Court has considered for over 30 years” when determining if an interview is custodial. The government filing concluded by stating that each of those six factors support the district court’s denial of suppression ruling.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit in St. Louis scheduled a hearing of oral arguments in the case for Thursday, February 16 at the Charles Evans Whittaker Courthouse in Kansas City, Missouri. Duggar is currently serving his federal prison sentence at FCI Seagoville outside of Dallas.