Josh and Anna 56: AMA and Stuck in Duggarville?

[thoughtful]

4 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

FTFY.

Sorry . . . I couldn't resist!

Jim never vomits at home . . .

[marmalade]

After a few extensions, Smuggar's defense team responds to the prosecution's brief with more of the same. Still trying to pin this on Caleb Williams for starters. 

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-defense-says-district-court-violated-duggars-right-to-present-a-complete-defense-in-appeal-brief/

[Expectopatronus]

If they have actual evidence that someone other than Josh did it, they should be allowed to present it. However, if this is merely a smear campaign I have confidence that the judge will see through it. I’m not worried.

[marmalade]

Here's the court filing 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7psd83xs8b1isus/12.27.2022 Duggar Reply Brief.pdf?dl=0

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

If they have actual evidence that someone other than Josh did it, they should be allowed to present it. However, if this is merely a smear campaign I have confidence that the judge will see through it. I’m not worried.

The filing is the definition of insanity.

But it makes me happy to think of Jim Bob wasting yet more money on that POS. 

[TuringMachine]

On 12/27/2022 at 6:22 PM, marmalade said:

After a few extensions, Smuggar's defense team responds to the prosecution's brief with more of the same. Still trying to pin this on Caleb Williams for starters. 

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-defense-says-district-court-violated-duggars-right-to-present-a-complete-defense-in-appeal-brief/

They still seemed to be ignoring the fact that they were allowed to call Caleb as a witness, they just couldn't ask about his previous unrelated crime. Or, if my not even remotely lawyer brain is reading correctly, they couldn't ask unless they were able to connect him to this crime by showing he was at the car lot (he was in another state) or that he was able to remotely access the linux partition (not possible). Since presumably the only connection is that Caleb is also a pedophile the defence chose not to call him. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:46 AM, TuringMachine said:

They still seemed to be ignoring the fact that they were allowed to call Caleb as a witness, they just couldn't ask about his previous unrelated crime. Or, if my not even remotely lawyer brain is reading correctly, they couldn't ask unless they were able to connect him to this crime by showing he was at the car lot (he was in another state) or that he was able to remotely access the linux partition (not possible). Since presumably the only connection is that Caleb is also a pedophile the defence chose not to call him. 

True. The defense opted not to call Williams. This is the prosecution explaining the Caleb Williams testimony issue earlier this year:

 “Yet the defendant now claims he is entitled to a new trial because the Court precluded him from calling Mr. Williams as an alternative-perpetrator witness. A review of the record reveals the opposite: the Court allowed the defendant to call Mr. Williams to develop this theory but simply limited his ability to introduce evidence of Mr. Williams’s prior sex offense pursuant to the Federal Rules of Evidence until he established a nonspeculative nexus between Mr. Williams and the crimes.”

Had Williams had info that would have tended to exonerate Josh, the defense could certainly have called him to the stand. What they couldn't do is paint him as an alternative suspect based upon speculation alone. As there is ample evidence that Caleb wasn't anywhere near the car lot during the time frame in question, they weren't going to be allowed to bring up Caleb's past history as a sex offender so there was no value in the defense calling him to the stand. He could only potentially have hurt Josh's case further. 

[feministxtian]

J'felon will never take responsibility for his actions. What's the over/under for him violating parole/probation inside of 12 months after his release? 

[BadMurphy]

He’ll never take responsibility bc it was the devil’s doing, not his. But hey you can’t put that in a court filing. 
Actually I’m kind of surprised I haven’t heard of a fundie trying to use that defense before, someone must have at some point.

[Coconut Flan]

Here you go maybe not a fundie, but...

https://people.howstuffworks.com/arne-johnson.htm

[Sullie06]

19 hours ago, feministxtian said:

J'felon will never take responsibility for his actions. What's the over/under for him violating parole/probation inside of 12 months after his release? 

I give him about 2-3 years before he violates. I’ve found that typically most Probationers tend to do really well at first. It’s a honeymoon period. They want to prove they can do it, they’re happy they are out of jail, etc. Most continue to do well and work towards meeting their conditions. Those who don’t start to fall off about the 2 year mark. They start to fall into old behaviors. They start missing reporting. Relapse on substances often times or get new charges. I think Josh will do well for awhile but 10 years is a long time to live under the courts rules 

[marmalade]

I think his probation is 20 years. I remember something about him being in his 60s when it's over.

[Leftitinmysnood]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:03 PM, Cheetah said:

My first thought on seeing the yarmulke was that maybe he's recently been to a friend's Bar Mitzvah.  Then I realized how absurdly unlikely that was for this overly sheltered, home-schooled kid.  He probably doesn't even have any friends who aren't ATI, let alone any Jewish friends.

You say that, but there were christian fundies we knew who had Bar Mitzvahs for their boys at 13. Complete with scripture reading and food. No dancing, though. They were ATI adjacent, but stricter.

[Four is Enough]

16 hours ago, marmalade said:

I think his probation is 20 years. I remember something about him being in his 60s when it's over.

Old geezers molest children too..

[imokit]

Are we talking about reoffending or getting caught?

I have no doubt Josh will reoffend and do it quickly,  But he can be clever when he wants to be.  He's in prison surrounded by other child abusers learning new skills to be clever.  He'll go home and be surrounded by people who will attempt to control him and stop him, but will also cover for him and definitely won't report him.

He won't get caught for a while, if at all.

His biggest risk will be leaked photos of him at family events with children in the vicinity if it violates his probation.

[LurkerOverThePond]

What would happen to him if he'd violate his probation? For example, not doing anything physical to a child but having abusive photos on his computer once again. Would it be straight back to prison for the rest of his probation or even longer?

[Sullie06]

1 hour ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

What would happen to him if he'd violate his probation? For example, not doing anything physical to a child but having abusive photos on his computer once again. Would it be straight back to prison for the rest of his probation or even longer?

So having them find CSAM on his computer again would stem more charges. So in that case he would be charged/sentenced on the new charges (as a second felony offender) and he would likely receive a concurrent amount of jail time for the violation of Probation. 

If he has a technical violation, which means he has violated the conditions of probation but have not committed a new crime. He can be sentenced to incarceration but it likely would not be as long as the remainder of the sentence. They would probably give him a short stint in jail and restore him to Probation, the first time. Subsequent violations would result in more jail time. 

[FeministShrew]

Just popping in to see if anyone was talking about the photos of Anna & her kids at Seagoville. Supposedly taken by another inmate's visitor and shared with WOACB, along with info on their behavior during the visit and Josh's reputation among the inmates..

Popped up in my Reddit notifications because someone doesn't trust WOACB and wanted to know what everyone thought.

Interesting in a way but of course I'm skeptical.

Edited January 13, 2023 by FeministShrew

[noseybutt]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:45 PM, Coconut Flan said:

Here you go maybe not a fundie, but...

https://people.howstuffworks.com/arne-johnson.htm

There is also something called the Deific Decree Doctrine which is rarely invoked and almost never invoked successfully— that makes the argument for an insanity finding if the defendant’s hallucinations were deemed to be “from God.”

Technical article for people looking for bunny trails: https://jaapl.org/content/36/1/95

(Legal insanity is not part of Josh’s case, to be clear.)

Edited January 13, 2023 by noseybutt

[noseybutt]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:53 AM, LurkerOverThePond said:

What would happen to him if he'd violate his probation? For example, not doing anything physical to a child but having abusive photos on his computer once again. Would it be straight back to prison for the rest of his probation or even longer?

Generally if there is a parole violation that does not involve a specific crime, then parole is revoked and he gets sent back to prison. An example might be someone who has a restriction against having a cellphone. If caught, that’s not a crime for everyone, just that person. It’s a parole violation but not more than that.

If he were to violate by breaking a law, such as looking at more child porn, then that would be a parole violation plus new charges.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, FeministShrew said:

Just popping in to see if anyone was talking about the photos of Anna & her kids at Seagoville. Supposedly taken by another inmate's visitor and shared with WOACB, along with info on their behavior during the visit and Josh's reputation among the inmates..

Popped up in my Reddit notifications because someone doesn't trust WOACB and wanted to know what everyone thought.

Interesting in a way but of course I'm skeptical.

No but I heard about her visiting. Do you have a link? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, FeministShrew said:

Just popping in to see if anyone was talking about the photos of Anna & her kids at Seagoville. Supposedly taken by another inmate's visitor and shared with WOACB, along with info on their behavior during the visit and Josh's reputation among the inmates..

Popped up in my Reddit notifications because someone doesn't trust WOACB and wanted to know what everyone thought.

Interesting in a way but of course I'm skeptical.

I don’t want to give Katie Joy views so can you give us a recap? 

[postscript]

The WOACB video popped up on my YouTube feed so I watched it. I didn’t realize it was her until I was far enough in to want to hear the rest. Apparently Anna took all 7 kids to visit Josh. WOACB claims she heard from someone else visiting an inmate at the same time who said Josh and Anna barely interacted, the oldest kids wanted nothing to do with him, and he held Madyson on his lap for most of the visit. She also claims to have more info about what JosH is up to in prison that she’s saving for a future video.

While I have the same skepticism about her sources as everyone else (someone just happens to be visiting another inmate and reaches out to her, of all people?), most of this sounds plausible. I can believe that the marriage is strained, and that the older kids are angry and want nothing to do with him. They certainly must have some idea of what’s going on, and I doubt they are getting any kind of counseling other than to forgive him. 

[FeministShrew]

52 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t want to give Katie Joy views so can you give us a recap? 

It might be awhile! I read it at home on my tablet & can't find it on reddit from my work computer. I have a staff meeting/dinner tonight but I'll try to find the reddit post and paraphrase it in the morning, unless someone else beats me to it! I only watched a few seconds of the KJ video with the sound off to get a look at the photos, lol. 

ETA: Oops! Someone did beat me to it!

Edited January 13, 2023 by FeministShrew

[libgirl2]

51 minutes ago, postscript said:

The WOACB video popped up on my YouTube feed so I watched it. I didn’t realize it was her until I was far enough in to want to hear the rest. Apparently Anna took all 7 kids to visit Josh. WOACB claims she heard from someone else visiting an inmate at the same time who said Josh and Anna barely interacted, the oldest kids wanted nothing to do with him, and he held Madyson on his lap for most of the visit. She also claims to have more info about what JosH is up to in prison that she’s saving for a future video.

While I have the same skepticism about her sources as everyone else (someone just happens to be visiting another inmate and reaches out to her, of all people?), most of this sounds plausible. I can believe that the marriage is strained, and that the older kids are angry and want nothing to do with him. They certainly must have some idea of what’s going on, and I doubt they are getting any kind of counseling other than to forgive him. 

It does sound plausible.