Joy & Austin 33: Pregnant Again

[justmy2cents]

I know 4 women who used surrogates to have children, 2 with their own eggs and 2 with donor eggs. First one gave birth and a few days after coming home from the hospital hemorrhaged. Had a hysterectomy to save her life. A few years later a ‘friend’ carried twins for her. My daughter’s classmate was carried by a surrogate as her mother has a heart condition and was told it would be dangerous to carry a baby. My other 2 friends tried for years and had miscarriages. By the time they had surrogates they were in their late 40’s and needed donor eggs. None of these women are wealthy, but not poor either. It must have been tough for them to give up a level of control when they weren’t the ones carrying. It wasn’t an easy decision for any of them and I know they really appreciated the surrogates.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I've got a client who just... likes being pregnant.  She has had 8 pregnancies, I believe.  3 kids of her own and 5 surrogacies.  No hard facts about the donor situations, but I have heard her husband muttering good-naturedly that she doesn't take payment beyond the costs associated with the pregnancy.  That woman is probably a saint, because I bitched throughout my whole pregnancy.

But I completely agree that it could be very predatory.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

I can’t say I know much about surrogacy. I do think, tho, that just as a very rich person has the resources necessary to get an abortion, they also would have resources for a surrogate. On some levels the wealthy may have similar problems as anyone else and on other levels their world revolves very differently than the average Joe or Josephine. 

They also have more choices through adoption as well. The rich do live very different lives because they have many more choices than the poor or even just the middle class. 

[Cam]

10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They also have more choices through adoption as well. The rich do live very different lives because they have many more choices than the poor or even just the middle class. 

Definitely. Powerfully expressed in the streaming series “Little Fires Everywhere” —

Two mothers:   Elena (Reese Witherspoon), a white, married, upper-middle-class mother and Mia (Kerry Washington), a black, single mother who is Elena’s maid.

With no understanding of the difficult circumstances of Mia’s life, Elena berates her parenting skills, yelling at her: “A good mother makes good choices!”

Mia yells back: “You did’t make good choices, you HAD good choices! Options, that being rich and white and entitled gave you!”

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Cam

[HideousGreenShirt]

In her Instagram stories, Gideon has arm braces on - apparently Joy is trying them to get him to stop sucking his thumb. She explained that they have tried a ton of things and is asking for tips. 

Guess it's good she is not just Pearl method/beating her kids into submission but are these arm braces a thing? Seems like a child would just be able to work out how to remove them? 

[clueliss]

Oh god.  Sorry but that’s personally triggering.  I was a thumb sucker for a very long time (and didn’t fully stop even at night until I had a retainer in my mouth after braces and that was because it changed the feel).  

My mother used to paint my thumb with this liquid stuff (I believe called thumb) that burned my mouth,  and yet didn’t stop me.  I’d just suck until it was gone, burning sensation and all.  

50 something me now sees that was a sensory thing as well as a probable stim.  

[treehugger]

My sister sucked her thumb for years and years.  She finally stopped when she was almost 7, because she got a sore on her thumb from it being wet all the time, and it hurt her so much she couldn’t suck it.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

This makes me sad. I wish there was a better way to deal with this than just braces on his arms. One of my closest friends sucked her fingers until we were teens and she had to get a ton of head gear and braces. I guess all that metal in her mouth finally stopped her. I went to school with a girl I knew since elementary school and she sucked her thumb into adulthood. Nothing stopped her. Gideon is 4 correct? I don’t know. Maybe I’m too passive as a parent. But I don’t think I would do the arm braces. 
 

ETA: but I’ve never been in this situation since my sister, myself, my sister’s kids, and my kids never sucked our thumbs/fingers. So part of me thinks it’s genetic. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[Travelfan]

I have 2 kids and 2 very different thumb sucking stories…my daughter sucked her thumb all the time.  She developed a callous/blister on her thumb that just never went away because she always sucked it. One day when she was 3 1/2 I told her she couldn’t suck her thumb anymore (I never expected her to actually listen!) Later that day she came up to me and sadly said mommy can I please suck my thumb? I was shocked, I told her that she couldn’t, and to my amazement she never sucked it again. Within 2-3 weeks the callous went away and her thumb was completely normal.  
 

My son didn’t suck his thumb but he always bit his fingernails. I tried the whole just telling him not to do it anymore thing since it worked so well with his sister.  Nope, he kept right on chewing them.  I told him that the day his nails finally got long enough for me to clip that I’d give him 5 dollars. It took about 2 years and finally one day he was so excited and showed me his nails to clip. I paid him his 5 bucks and he immediately said “now how much will you give me to stop picking my nose” 🙄 With him I’ve decided it’s an anxiety thing because he’s now in college and still has no nails, he picks at them constantly. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Luckily my son self soothes in a way that isn’t hurting his teeth or thumb. He rocks back and forth. I’ve never told him not to do it and we’ve never made him think it was a bad thing. He actually does it much less now that he’s older. But it’s possible he will always do it. My cousin did the same thing into young adulthood. 

[backyard sylph]

I have always rocked back and forth. As I got older I learned to do it sort of unobviously? Like you'd still notice if you were watching, but it is more subtle movement. Also when I realize it, half consciously, I try just pressing the two left fingers of my left hand lightly against whatever, or either thumb for some reason, sort of transferring the pulse there or something like that. 

Don't know how that would work with thumb in mouth, the brain must think it needs something in there.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

15 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

I have always rocked back and forth. As I got older I learned to do it sort of unobviously? Like you'd still notice if you were watching, but it is more subtle movement. Also when I realize it, half consciously, I try just pressing the two left fingers of my left hand lightly against whatever, or either thumb for some reason, sort of transferring the pulse there or something like that. 

Don't know how that would work with thumb in mouth, the brain must think it needs something in there.

I love rocking.

But I've redirected it to swings and glider rocker outside plus rocking chairs inside.

 

[SunnySide]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This makes me sad. I wish there was a better way to deal with this than just braces on his arms. One of my closest friends sucked her fingers until we were teens and she had to get a ton of head gear and braces. I guess all that metal in her mouth finally stopped her. I went to school with a girl I knew since elementary school and she sucked her thumb into adulthood. Nothing stopped her. Gideon is 4 correct? I don’t know. Maybe I’m too passive as a parent. But I don’t think I would do the arm braces. 
 

ETA: but I’ve never been in this situation since my sister, myself, my sister’s kids, and my kids never sucked our thumbs/fingers. So part of me thinks it’s genetic. 

I wonder too if it’s genetic. No one in my family (siblings, cousins, my nieces) ever sucked their thumbs. My mom always says she was surprised none of us kids even did it a little bit. My nieces wouldn’t even take a pacifier. I guess it’s good in a way because I know if thumb sucking or pacifier use goes on for too long it can cause serious tooth problems. I am not sure how I feel about arm braces, but I’ve also never been a parent. As someone said upthread at least she’s not going the Pearl route and just beating the child into submission. 

[AprilQuilt]

This is interesting about the rocking, my 3yo loves to sit sideways on my lap and be rocked, pushing off with her feet like you would with a rocking chair. She got into bed with me last night and was doing a gentle push, push, push against me with her feet although she wasn't actually rocking. I guess it's her comfort.

She is also a thumb sucker when tired or shy - and has a callous from it! - and I am not going to ask her to stop. The dentist is happy with her teeth and it's not hurting anyone.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I live pushing my feet against stuff. When I was married it was husband. Who was much bigger than me so I doubt he even noticed. I find it very comforting.

As a kid, I also used to "sit" on the couch upside down.(head where feet go/feet where head goes). Found that extremely relaxing. Forgot about it til now.

I now know I needed a lot of sensory input as a child. But they just thought I was weird then. There wasn't stuff about sensory needs in common usage then.

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I live pushing my feet against stuff. When I was married it was husband. Who was much bigger than me so I doubt he even noticed. I find it very comforting.

As a kid, I also used to "sit" on the couch upside down.(head where feet go/feet where head goes). Found that extremely relaxing. Forgot about it til now.

I now know I needed a lot of sensory input as a child. But they just thought I was weird then. There wasn't stuff about sensory needs in common usage then.

I look back now and realize I would have done much better in school with noise cancelling head phones. In the 80s, they just called me hyper and thought I just had trouble paying attention. ADD was thrown around but my mom knew I didn’t fit that diagnosis. I see now that I just have sensory issues. A lot of it is noise. Some is touch and taste. 

[gobucks]

The thought of being in arm braces breaks my heart. He is still so young. 

[Cam]

3 hours ago, gobucks said:

The thought of being in arm braces breaks my heart. He is still so young. 

It seems like overkill to me and breaks my heart, too. Barbaric. 

[Bad Wolf]

What do arm braces look like? Sounds medieval.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I was an obsessive thumb sucker as a kid.  When I was about 5 my father told me I'd grow up to have a face like a crow if I didn't stop.  I was sure he was making it up so I ignored him.  Then the pediatrician told me the same thing.  I took my thumb out of my mouth and never sucked it again.  My father claims he doesn't remember telling the doc to say that, but he must have... it's too specific.

[Smoochie]

Sometimes it's simply a habit, other times a self soothing behaviour when relaxing, falling asleep, etc. or to an anxiety causing event, etc.  Before any action should be taken (NEVER arm braces=confinement/imprisonment) she should observe when he's doing it and see if something else could work as a 'soother' or address the underlying issue if it becomes obvious why he's doing it.

Like someone said further up, bribery sometimes works. My 4 year old niece was a thumb sucker who wanted to go to dance class and my sister said she couldn't until she stopped sucking her thumb as they only took big girls. One day and she never sucked it again ... LOL joke was on my sister, she danced until she was 16, cost her a fortune!

Edited October 26, 2022 by Smoochie

[patsymae]

"They also have more choices through adoption as well."

 

Beginning with they don't have to relinquish their children because of finances, which is the number one reason people surrender their children. 
And you don't see a whole lot of affluent women serving as surrogates or egg donors for unrelated strangers (as opposed to, say, a sister or other close relative).

Both systems are predatory,

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I was an obsessive thumb sucker as a kid.  When I was about 5 my father told me I'd grow up to have a face like a crow if I didn't stop.  I was sure he was making it up so I ignored him.  Then the pediatrician told me the same thing.  I took my thumb out of my mouth and never sucked it again.  My father claims he doesn't remember telling the doc to say that, but he must have... it's too specific.

My sister sucked her middle and ring fingers- she had a sore that looked like a piggy nose on her fingers. 

[Idlewild]

Joy looked very weary in the video and said she wasn’t happy with the braces, but they had tried other things including painting his thumb with bad tasting polish. She also said the dentist had told them it would adversely affect his teeth if he continued.

[Mama Mia]

11 hours ago, Smoochie said:

Sometimes it's simply a habit, other times a self soothing behaviour when relaxing, falling asleep, etc. or to an anxiety causing event, etc.  Before any action should be taken (NEVER arm braces=confinement/imprisonment) she should observe when he's doing it and see if something else could work as a 'soother' or address the underlying issue if it becomes obvious why he's doing it.

Like someone said further up, bribery sometimes works. My 4 year old niece was a thumb sucker who wanted to go to dance class and my sister said she couldn't until she stopped sucking her thumb as they only took big girls. One day and she never sucked it again ... LOL joke was on my sister, she danced until she was 16, cost her a fortune!

From the video it sounded like Joy had tried all the many. options she had heard of, and was asking for any possible other ideas. She stated they were “trying” the arm braces ( they looked kind of like  the elbow pads kids wear for bike riding, he can move his arms, but I guess not enough to get his hand to his mouth ) , but she said she didn’t like it and would see how it went. She definitely gave the impression she would stop if Gideon was too upset by them. 
She stated the Dentist had told her it was messing up his teeth and they had to get him to stop before 5. Which is coming up soon.

It sounded like she was getting a ton of pressure from the dentist.

I have mixed feelings on that. If it’s is going to end up causing him years of orthodontic work - which isn’t fun, limits food choices, requires constant monitoring and appointments and can be expensive and painful, or lifelong teeth/jaw issues that might make him uncomfortable and self-conscious— then some temporary unhappiness and discomfort over the arm braces is probably worth it. 

But it can be hard to impossible with some kids to get them to stop those kind of habits. And if the whole family is frazzled and frustrated and sad about it, and if it’s more just a Dentist being kind of a prick about a general recommendation- without any specific serious mouth issues showing up in this particular kid — then no- definitely not worth the stress. 
 

Joy has been very on top of Dr recommendations and medical treatments with her kids. Which is great. I just hope she isn’t feeling too much pressure about things that may not matter in the long run, and is getting balanced advice.