Joy & Austin 33: Pregnant Again

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I think there's something to the idea that girls who grew up minding all the kids may have a different view from the boys. And thus the married in women not yet realizing what they've gotten into?

I dont think Joy doing one screening is all that indicative of her educational prowess. It really seemed like a commercial when it happened. I always figured she knew those people and they said "hey let's do a free screening for you- gives you content and gives us promotion"

Hopefully she is doing more but then how much can you really do as all the little ones multiply?

[Keys]

1 hour ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

There are slight shades and gradations to the Quiverful movement. Natural family planning isn't as across the board taboo as hormonal birth control or surgical sterilization, especially if the family has a generally large family of 6-8. Having your tubes tied after 7 children may be permissible if the mother has life threatening complications. 

This reminds me of the episode of Grey’s Anatomy where a woman begs the doctor to make a “complication” during her c-section that requires both tubes to be tied, because it was her 7-8th (?) baby and she’s exhausted, and Catholic so states she can’t use birth control. The doctor did it, and told the husband there was a complication and she had to tie the tubes. He caught on and sued. Makes me very grateful that here there’s no such thing as needing a husband’s consent for tubal ligation or disclosure of surgical details to the partner unless the patient has expressly consented. 

[Idlewild]

I think some of it will boil down to economics too. JB and M had the show, speaking engagements and paid for trips and activities which made their lives much more comfortable. The Duggar daughters supplement their husbands income with paid partnerships and monetised YouTube- but I doubt any of this generation can afford 19 kids with the same lifestyle they had.

[Mama Mia]

18 hours ago, Cam said:

The sisters in law are really producing and I’m not sure the Duggar sisters anticipated being outshined in that way. I think it started dawning on Joy when she and Katey got pregnant at the same time even tho Joy had space between her last one and this one while Katey practically just gave birth and is already pregnant with another. I bet Joy, who hoped to bask a bit in the pregnancy limelight, didn’t like being a bit upstaged by Katey. 

It’s easier for Jill and Jinger to limit size as Jing is removed from the constant family gatherings and Jill seems to have other things going on in her life. Those two seem to have given thought to how they hope to live their lives. Joy doesn’t seem like she ever had much of a plan, just let Austin tell her what it is. 

Being around the constant pregnancies, how much peer pressure will be on the Forsyths. Do the men get their digs in when the womenfolk arent around by making remarks like, “hey aint you gettin any, you havent had any babies in awhile”. Or “gotta keep them women barefoot and pregnant and prove you a man”. This would be said jokingly but intentionally. I even wonder if Austin got ribbed by other fundie men for “allowing” his wife to get her hair cut: “Whoa, Austin, next thing you know Joy will be wanting to preach in church! Can’t have that now, can we? Plus do you really think that short hair even looks good?” People make snide remarks to all the time out of earshot from others.

As for them liking to travel, once Austin’s boys become tweens he’ll be out male bonding with them and Joy will be tasked with keeping the home fires burning. 

I think all of the daughters except Jessa have said, or heavily implied, that they aren’t opposed to limiting their family size, or purposefully spacing between kids.  Jill has talked openly about birth control - she won’t use hormonal, but does use barrier methods. Jinger/Jeremy said they wanted to wait a year before getting pregnant - and seem very likely to be preventing further babies. Their church definitely seems ok with birth control. I am about 90% sure Joy or Austin said they were waiting a bit after Evelyn was born before trying again. Of course a “bit” for them may be 6 months instead of 6 weeks. Even Jessa hasn’t outright said she’s “leaving it up to God” and since they co-sleep for a long time, and Jessa is 30 - Doubt they’ll hit double digits.  
 

I don’t get the same vibe off Austin that you do. I think he gets annoyed with the constant YouTube’s, but I think a big part of the attraction for him was that Joy liked the outdoorsy, get dirty, rough things he liked. And Joy seemed deliriously happy that someone finally was actually liking her being herself - instead of trying to make her be the girly girl her family expected.  I don’t think he likes her being outdoorsy or not traditionally feminine because he’s progressive or forward thinking - clearly, but It’s a pretty common couple type.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Mama Mia

[CarrotCake]

And the babymaking machines Kendra and Katey did not grow up in large families. The Caldwells might be quiverfull but when Kendra moved out there were 'only' 7 kids. Same with Anna, they might have been with 8 kids, but only 3 of them were younger than her.

 

 

[Cam]

I think Austin was okay with Joy being a tomboy but as their family continues to grow, I think she’ll be forced more and more to sacrifice the time she’d rather be spending being like one of the boys in order to take care of the needs of her children. She’ll be called on to be the helpmeet more and more often and expected to put her children and husband’s needs before her own. It’s easier to juggle with less children but how good will she be at it if a lot more kids are added to the mix? Fundie women are conditioned to feel selfish if they even contemplate needing a break from perpetual motherhood, that it’s not womanly to want any me time. Will Joy bow to the fundie patriarchy or make a conscious decision to limit family size for better manageability? Only time will tell.

 

[Idlewild]

@CarrotCake true, but I think that the Caldwells and Kellers were very ‘star struck’ with the Duggars - Anna seemed to love being a Duggar and trying to be Michelle 2.0 and the Caldwells were keen to hitch their cart to the Duggars before they all fell out. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

15 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I think all of the daughters except Jessa have said, or heavily implied, that they aren’t opposed to limiting their family size, or purposefully spacing between kids.  Jill has talked openly about birth control - she won’t use hormonal, but does use barrier methods. Jinger/Jeremy said they wanted to wait a year before getting pregnant - and seem very likely to be preventing further babies. Their church definitely seems ok with birth control. I am about 90% sure Joy or Austin said they were waiting a bit after Evelyn was born before trying again. Of course a “bit” for them may be 6 months instead of 6 weeks. Even Jessa hasn’t outright said she’s “leaving it up to God” and since they co-sleep for a long time, and Jessa is 30 - Doubt they’ll hit double digits.  
 

I don’t get the same vibe off Austin that you do. I think he gets annoyed with the constant YouTube’s, but I think a big part of the attraction for him was that Joy liked the outdoorsy, get dirty, rough things he liked. And Joy seemed deliriously happy that someone finally was actually liking her being herself - instead of trying to make her be the girly girl her family expected.  I don’t think he likes her being outdoorsy or not traditionally feminine because he’s progressive or forward thinking - clearly, but It’s a pretty common couple type.

 

15 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I think all of the daughters except Jessa have said, or heavily implied, that they aren’t opposed to limiting their family size, or purposefully spacing between kids.  Jill has talked openly about birth control - she won’t use hormonal, but does use barrier methods. Jinger/Jeremy said they wanted to wait a year before getting pregnant - and seem very likely to be preventing further babies. Their church definitely seems ok with birth control. I am about 90% sure Joy or Austin said they were waiting a bit after Evelyn was born before trying again. Of course a “bit” for them may be 6 months instead of 6 weeks. Even Jessa hasn’t outright said she’s “leaving it up to God” and since they co-sleep for a long time, and Jessa is 30 - Doubt they’ll hit double digits.  
 

Evelyn is 2 years old and she'll be closer to 3 years when the new baby is born. It's safe to assume Joy and Austin purposely waited at least 18 months to have another baby. 

Jessa is 30 and has 4 kids. If she has at least 4-5 kids in her 30s and at least 1 or 2 kids in her 40s, she will have about 10 kids. Still less than 19, but not a small family. She could still have a double digit. On the other hand, I got the sense Ben's parents stopped at 7 so maybe Ben and Jessa will do the same.

15 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

And the babymaking machines Kendra and Katey did not grow up in large families. The Caldwells might be quiverfull but when Kendra moved out there were 'only' 7 kids. Same with Anna, they might have been with 8 kids, but only 3 of them were younger than her.

Seven kids is still a large family. It's not a mega-family like the Duggars, but it's a big family, especially for the oldest daughter. 

[CarrotCake]

9 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Seven kids is still a large family. It's not a mega-family like the Duggars, but it's a big family, especially for the oldest daughter. 

True, but they are spaced quite evenly, so much less support needed than when there are 7 kids within 10 years.

[Mrs Ms]

18 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

True, but they are spaced quite evenly, so much less support needed than when there are 7 kids within 10 years.

My partner is the second oldest of 7 who are spread over a good 14 years. The first time he remembers holding a baby was three weeks before I gave birth to our oldest. His older sibling wasn’t parentified either. But all the kids went to kindergarten and school. And his mother is absolutely amazing.

[AverageGiraffe]

On 1/4/2023 at 12:16 AM, Keys said:

This reminds me of the episode of Grey’s Anatomy where a woman begs the doctor to make a “complication” during her c-section that requires both tubes to be tied, because it was her 7-8th (?) baby and she’s exhausted, and Catholic so states she can’t use birth control. The doctor did it, and told the husband there was a complication and she had to tie the tubes. He caught on and sued. Makes me very grateful that here there’s no such thing as needing a husband’s consent for tubal ligation or disclosure of surgical details to the partner unless the patient has expressly consented. 

I get filled with righteous fury over the idea of needing consent for sterilization. My husband got a vasectomy this summer, and I had to sign a form saying I was fine with it. He didn't think it was that big of a deal, but he also has a very different perspective as a man. I signed it, of course, but I was big mad about it. Just because we're married doesn't mean I should have any say over what he chooses to do with his body. I'm trying to avoid a tubal even though we're child free (it's a much more major surgery, and my birth control is really good combined with additional backups with other partners), but I *know* that if I choose to pursue one in a few years I'll have to get his consent as well and the very idea infuriates me... especially living in a state that immediately passed some pretty gross abortion laws as soon as Roe was overturned in June.  

[neuroticcat]

I think the 2nd gen will greenlight NFP. It’s consistent with the openness to children approach. The observation that it’s mostly the SIL who are full on QF is interesting. It could be that the Duggar’s effectively indoctrinated everyone with headship ideology and the girls wisely chose less fundamentalist husbands.

I imagine the girls will be pretty plain tired by age 30. Even if they have 4 or 5, it takes a lot of steam to back to back pregnancy and childcare. And they’ve been already doing that for years. I am tired thinking about it.

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

22 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

My partner is the second oldest of 7 who are spread over a good 14 years. The first time he remembers holding a baby was three weeks before I gave birth to our oldest. His older sibling wasn’t parentified either. But all the kids went to kindergarten and school. And his mother is absolutely amazing.

He doesn't remember holding a baby as kid and he was 14 at the time! That's really surprising to me.  I remember holding babies as a kid. A lot of the big families I know well are 5-8 kids and  most of the oldest kids were parentified. I wonder if the fact he was a male helps, and if the oldest daughter could say the same thing. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Bluebirdbluebell

[Dandruff]

18 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I imagine the girls will be pretty plain tired by age 30. Even if they have 4 or 5, it takes a lot of steam to back to back pregnancy and childcare. And they’ve been already doing that for years. I am tired thinking about it.

And what if one of them has a child with significant issues requiring a lot of care/attention/$$$s - enough that quality of life for the entire family will be compromised?  These folks, I'm pretty sure, are firmly against abortion under any circumstance.  I'd like to know what they would do if a fetus was ID'd as viable but profoundly disabled.  Would they always choose to continue the pregnancy, refuse future bc, and trust in the Lord?

[Mrs Ms]

14 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

He doesn't remember holding a baby as kid and he was 14 at the time! That's really surprising to me.  I remember holding babies as a kid. A lot of the big families I know well are 5-8 kids and  most of the oldest kids were parentified. I wonder if the fact he was a male helps, and if the oldest daughter could say the same thing. 

I’m sure all of them held a baby at some stage, but it was not a regular, expected occurrence. They all had to mind the little ones a bit once they were older and all the kids learnt how to cook and bake well.
None of any childhood memories he and his siblings have shared with me over the years make me think that there were different roles for different genders. After being a part of FJ for this many years, I have actively looked for red flags over the years…

Like I said, I think his mother is amazing and very unlike the ones we discuss here. Homeschooling would have ruined everything though. Nobody can magic the time together you need to do that too. Plus actively choosing a large amount of children instead of “following the Lord’s will” must make a difference.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Mrs Ms

[Jigsaw3]

19 hours ago, Dandruff said:

And what if one of them has a child with significant issues requiring a lot of care/attention/$$$s - enough that quality of life for the entire family will be compromised?  These folks, I'm pretty sure, are firmly against abortion under any circumstance.  I'd like to know what they would do if a fetus was ID'd as viable but profoundly disabled.  Would they always choose to continue the pregnancy, refuse future bc, and trust in the Lord?

I think that this is one reason Courtney Rogers might be actually be done at 12 kids. Her second-youngest daughter, Caris, has significant issues arising from an injury at birth. Courtney seems to be doing a good job of getting the child all available help, at least from what she posts on her Instagram, but with those therapies and appointments and care on top of raising/homeschooling 12 kids and keeping a mini-farm running she may be seeing the wisdom of birth control.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

I think that this is one reason Courtney Rogers might be actually be done at 12 kids. Her second-youngest daughter, Caris, has significant issues arising from an injury at birth. Courtney seems to be doing a good job of getting the child all available help, at least from what she posts on her Instagram, but with those therapies and appointments and care on top of raising/homeschooling 12 kids and keeping a mini-farm running she may be seeing the wisdom of birth control.

Yes, Caris is currently in the hospital because RSV got her pretty sick. None of the other kids had to be hospitalized. So it’s obvious it hit her harder than any of the others. Which could happen again and again in the future. 

[Cupcake79]

7 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yes, Caris is currently in the hospital because RSV got her pretty sick. None of the other kids had to be hospitalized. So it’s obvious it hit her harder than any of the others. Which could happen again and again in the future. 

No, it was Coralee that was hospitalized, not Caris. I think Coralee is #10. She’s home now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, Cupcake79 said:

No, it was Coralee that was hospitalized, not Caris. I think Coralee is #10. She’s home now.

You’re right. I was thinking it was Caris. I am surprised she had RSV so bad since she’s not under 12 months and she has always seemed healthy. 

[JillyO]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You’re right. I was thinking it was Caris. I am surprised she had RSV so bad since she’s not under 12 months and she has always seemed healthy. 

I’ve read that pediatricians and hospitals are seeing more severe RSV cases in older kids this year. Nobody seems to be sure quite why that is, but yeah, lots of kids over 1 (and even over 2) having to be hospitalized. Scary stuff. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

5 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

I think that this is one reason Courtney Rogers might be actually be done at 12 kids. Her second-youngest daughter, Caris, has significant issues arising from an injury at birth. Courtney seems to be doing a good job of getting the child all available help, at least from what she posts on her Instagram, but with those therapies and appointments and care on top of raising/homeschooling 12 kids and keeping a mini-farm running she may be seeing the wisdom of birth control.

Courtney is a pet-fundie for many people, because she's cute and soft-spoken. She's just as toxic as any other fundie. They already have a huge family with very little spacing between kids and they homeschool, minifarm, and keep having more. That would be too much for anyone.

[nvmbr02]

A 50+ year old woman I work with was hospitalized with severe RSV in the middle of November. It is my understanding (and I could understand wrong!) that anyone can contract RSV but for most healthy children and adults the infection is similar to a cold. But the strand that is going around this year seems to be particularly bad. 

[SassyPants]

The main culprit in RSV is the very thick secretions it produces. Since babies/ children and especially preemies have smaller airways,  they are more susceptible to airway and respiratory issues associated with RSV. 

[Keys]

Yes, we all get RSV repeatedly throughout our lifetime. Typically some of the immunity carries over and so subsequent infections are less severe or even asymptomatic. But babies tend to have more in the way of lower respiratory/lung symptoms, which can make them very sick. Some of them always end up in hospital. Because we’ve been mostly locked down for the past 3 years, there’s now a larger proportion of young children having their first RSV infection, which is why the hospitalization rates are much higher. 
 

Also, I could be wrong, but I think Kelly Bates’ mother just passed away from RSV?

[libgirl2]

12 hours ago, Keys said:

 

Also, I could be wrong, but I think Kelly Bates’ mother just passed away from RSV?

I think so.